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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) e4 c5, nf3 d6, is there a good anti sicilian? (Read 35191 times)
chk
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Re: e4 c5, nf3 d6, is there a good anti sicilian?
Reply #34 - 06/18/09 at 08:51:55
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they (the Anti's) are of worth, just not rich enough, so I agree that maybe: 

"all Anti's worth <= Open Sic worth"

I'm full of axioms these days..  Wink
  

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TonyRo
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Re: e4 c5, nf3 d6, is there a good anti sicilian?
Reply #33 - 06/17/09 at 17:57:35
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chk wrote on 06/17/09 at 08:18:19:
there is more to the Sicilian than the open..  Cool


You're completely correct. It's the worth of all the other stuff that's under the microscope here.  Grin
  
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chk
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Re: e4 c5, nf3 d6, is there a good anti sicilian?
Reply #32 - 06/17/09 at 08:18:19
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there is more to the Sicilian than the open..  Cool
  

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Re: e4 c5, nf3 d6, is there a good anti sicilian?
Reply #31 - 06/16/09 at 16:16:08
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My personal view is: If you play 1.e4, you should play open sicilian. These are supposed to be the positions that an 1.e4 player should like (Open, mostly tactical).
  

'Experts vs The Sicilian' is a great book, but it is not the Bible. - TopNotch
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TonyRo
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Re: e4 c5, nf3 d6, is there a good anti sicilian?
Reply #30 - 06/16/09 at 16:10:55
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I really agree with MNb here. There's no reason to choose anything but the Open Sicilian in Correspondence, and it's really the only road to scoring points with White. OTB, I don't really like to see Anti-Sicilians, since I concentrate most of my efforts studying the Open lines, since they're way more dangerous. In CC, I want you to play the Closed, Bb5(+), GPA every time. I also want you to play lame variations of the Open that aren't considered dangerous. What I don't want at all is for you to play all the newest, most dangerous moves and force me to sweat out White's dangerous initiative for 30 moves, trying not to get my head ripped off! There's a reason that the Open is played by the world's strongest OTB and CC players - it's the best way to play for an actual advantage! You're not going to whamboozle me in a CC game when I can look at my 6 million games and use my 5 engines to try to make you look silly.  Grin
  
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Re: e4 c5, nf3 d6, is there a good anti sicilian?
Reply #29 - 06/14/09 at 03:35:47
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MNb wrote on 07/16/07 at 20:26:58:
mad_knight wrote on 07/16/07 at 14:49:16:

What do you think? Could this be something? Or should I stick to 3 c4 anyway since you've been playing it successfully for 2 years?! I'm sure MNb and Ptero will not agree! Mind you, my Elo must be around 1600 (it's 1800 in correspondence chess, which I play almost exclusively), so a theoretical disadvantage might not be that much of a problem?! Roll Eyes

Looking forward to your reactions!



In corr. chess the Open Sicilian is the only road to success. You have an abundance of time to sort out which lines you want to play. I assume you have a database; together with a couple of introductory books you will be able to make decisions per move.
Playing Anti-Sicilians in OTB chess makes sense; in corr. chess it is a waste of time. Your opponents will flawlessly chose the best defences and you will even run the risk to get inferior positions after 10-15 moves.



I disagree! I have gotten many wins off the wing gambit, delayed wing gambit, alapin and even Bb5+ in corr. You can pick any opening you want in corr because you have the time to go through all the theory and find your own novelties. I have never gotten a worse position from an anti sicillian (many time = though).
  
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Re: e4 c5, nf3 d6, is there a good anti sicilian?
Reply #28 - 06/12/09 at 14:32:14
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Then you also have to consider 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bb5 Nc6!? which can get very sharp.
  

'Experts vs The Sicilian' is a great book, but it is not the Bible. - TopNotch
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Re: e4 c5, nf3 d6, is there a good anti sicilian?
Reply #27 - 06/12/09 at 06:11:18
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I would recommend 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5!? (The Rudd Variation?) if you loathe studying theory, and 3.Bb5 (The Moscow Variation) if you are a positional player that likes positions resembling the Maroczy Bind.
  

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Re: e4 c5, nf3 d6, is there a good anti sicilian?
Reply #26 - 06/11/09 at 21:24:26
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bckm wrote on 06/11/09 at 21:12:26:
1.e4! e6!!-+ is the BEST Anti-Sicilian...   Smiley

Hey, it IS the BEST anti-sicilian...  Smiley

Nyuk nyuk...

Thank you for this very interesting comment, this really helped me to understand chess more and helped me building my repetoire. 
You can also avoid svesh then by making it closed (3.Nc3, g3 etc)
I think 2.Ne2 is more flexible if you like to play an anti-sic. But you might also have to think about 1.e4 e6 2.d4 c5
  

'Experts vs The Sicilian' is a great book, but it is not the Bible. - TopNotch
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bckm
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Re: e4 c5, nf3 d6, is there a good anti sicilian?
Reply #25 - 06/11/09 at 21:12:26
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1.e4! e6!!-+ is the BEST Anti-Sicilian...   Smiley

Hey, it IS the BEST anti-sicilian...  Smiley

Nyuk nyuk...
  
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sim
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Re: e4 c5, nf3 d6, is there a good anti sicilian?
Reply #24 - 05/27/09 at 07:41:13
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Thanks MNb! I could never have found out those move orders myself. I'm looking forward to investigate this.
I'll look into the Kopec system as well.


Edit:

If I want to reach as many Scheveningens as possible (because I want to add the Scheveningen to my repertoire as black), would 2. Ne2 and 3. Nc3 be a better move order (in order to be able to play 2. Ne2 e6 3. d4)?

Also, why do sicilian players play (1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. Bb5+) Bd7, if it is supposed to be so drawish? I just wonder if it's in line with the playing style one might expect from someone who plays sicilian.

And I'm still curious about (1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6) 3. Bc4
« Last Edit: 05/27/09 at 11:26:08 by sim »  
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MNb
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Re: e4 c5, nf3 d6, is there a good anti sicilian?
Reply #23 - 05/27/09 at 02:53:46
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I found those move orders out myself recently, of course with the help of the Chessbase Program. Probably something in my memory has stuck from an article in NIC about the Chameleon Variation a long time ago.
  

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Zatara
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Re: e4 c5, nf3 d6, is there a good anti sicilian?
Reply #22 - 05/27/09 at 02:11:13
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MNB ok the Kopec system isn't perfect!!  Your move orders are very interesting.  Where did you come up with them and is there some reading material on them??
thanks,
Zatara
 
PS MNB   I always enjoy your posts
  
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MNb
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Re: e4 c5, nf3 d6, is there a good anti sicilian?
Reply #21 - 05/27/09 at 01:19:04
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Assuming you don't want to play any Maroczywall (with c2-c4) the logical move order is 2.Nc3, 3.Nge2 and 4.d4. Black's extra options are:
a) 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nge2 e5 4.Nd5.
b) 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nge2 e6 4.d4 d5.
c) 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nge2 d6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 e5 6.Nf3 or 6.Nf5 as Black cannot play ...Bb4 anymore.
d) 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 d6 3.Nge2 a6 4.g3.
e) 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 d6 3.Nge2 Nf6 4.g3.
f) 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 e6 3.Nge2 d5 4.exd5 exd5 5.d4.

White only plays the Open Sicilian vs. the (Accelerated) Dragon, the Kan/Paulsen/Taimanov, the Scheveningen and 2...d6/5...Nc6. After 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nge2 e6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nf6 you can play 6.Nxc6 bxc6 7.e5, which is no Svesj either.

The Kopecsystem is unattractive after 3...Nf6 4.Bd3 Nc6 5.h3 d5. After 5.Bc2 Bg4 White's results are not outstanding either.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: e4 c5, nf3 d6, is there a good anti sicilian?
Reply #20 - 05/27/09 at 00:39:52
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Hi Sim,
You may find a friend in the 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 whatever move then 3.c3 and then 4. Bd3 or 4.h3 and then 5.Bd3.  This is known as the Kopec System.  you can order a good video of his on www.kopecchess.com all about his system!!  So unless you are facing IM's or higher this should take care of the Sicilian.  Oh yeah in a simul I think Kasparov played this way also GM Bauer has joined the kopec team.  And of course the games of Danny Kopec should be played through.  Let me know if this helped.
Enjoy the Kopec System,
Zatara
  
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