chk wrote on 06/17/09 at 08:18:19:


You're completely correct. It's the worth of all the other stuff that's under the microscope here. 

My personal view is: If you play 1.e4, you should play open sicilian. These are supposed to be the positions that an 1.e4 player should like (Open, mostly tactical).

MNb wrote on 07/16/07 at 20:26:58:



I disagree! I have gotten many wins off the wing gambit, delayed wing gambit, alapin and even Bb5+ in corr. You can pick any opening you want in corr because you have the time to go through all the theory and find your own novelties. I have never gotten a worse position from an anti sicillian (many time = though).

I would recommend 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5!? (The Rudd Variation?) if you loathe studying theory, and 3.Bb5 (The Moscow Variation) if you are a positional player that likes positions resembling the Maroczy Bind.

1.e4! e6!!-+ is the BEST Anti-Sicilian...  

Hey, it IS the BEST anti-sicilian...  

Nyuk nyuk...

I found those move orders out myself recently, of course with the help of the Chessbase Program. Probably something in my memory has stuck from an article in NIC about the Chameleon Variation a long time ago.

Assuming you don't want to play any Maroczywall (with c2-c4) the logical move order is 2.Nc3, 3.Nge2 and 4.d4. Black's extra options are:
a) 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nge2 e5 4.Nd5.
b) 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nge2 e6 4.d4 d5.
c) 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nge2 d6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 e5 6.Nf3 or 6.Nf5 as Black cannot play ...Bb4 anymore.
d) 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 d6 3.Nge2 a6 4.g3.
e) 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 d6 3.Nge2 Nf6 4.g3.
f) 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 e6 3.Nge2 d5 4.exd5 exd5 5.d4.

White only plays the Open Sicilian vs. the (Accelerated) Dragon, the Kan/Paulsen/Taimanov, the Scheveningen and 2...d6/5...Nc6. After 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nge2 e6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nf6 you can play 6.Nxc6 bxc6 7.e5, which is no Svesj either.

The Kopecsystem is unattractive after 3...Nf6 4.Bd3 Nc6 5.h3 d5. After 5.Bc2 Bg4 White's results are not outstanding either.

Hello.
I was looking for some advice and found this thread, which deals with exactly the problem that is keeping me awake.
Not so long ago I decided to keep playing 1. e4, but under the condition that I can put together a decent or half decent repertoire against the Sicilian. I've investigated the open Sicilians after 2. Nf3 e6 or 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 and decided I feel up to them. I don't feel up to the Najdorf however, and consequently want to find a good anti-sicilian after 2. ... d6

What I would like to know is which of the following possibilities is the most advisable. Which comes closest to the reputation of the closed or the Rossolimo:

(after 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6)

- 3. c3 Nf6 4. Be2
I experimented with this and was a bit disappointed. I chose this line because I thought: after all trading the white d-pawn for the black c-pawn is a concession. So 3. c3 at least promised to avoid this concession. Then 4. Be2 seemed more active than 4. Bd3 or 4. h3, but after trying out 4. Be2 I feel black dictates things more than white does in this line.

- 3. c3 and 4. Bd3 or 4. h3
So maybe this is what I must try out next. But I don't know much about this variation and cannot estimate how it would compare to 3. Bb5 or one of the other possibilities.

- 3. Bb5
I understand this is one of the most respectable anti-sicilian moves after 2. ... d6. But is it worth learning all the theory when I don't plan to play 3. Bb5 after 2. ... Nc6? It seems it would only if it really has an edge over the other options.

- 3. Bc4
I hadn't considered this, but it is mentioned in this thread a few times. What is the plan behind this move? If it avoids the Najdorf, it might be exactly what I'm looking for.

- 3. c4
After reading this thread I understand that this certainly isn't the best option.

- 3. b4
I always hear people saying the wing gambit is better than the Morra ... But how good exactly is the wing gambit?

- 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5
Can't estimate how solid this is.

- 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. something that avoids Najdorf ... Does it exist?

- 3. d3
Ideally I would like to be able to switch to the closed Sicilian after black plays 2. ... d6. But having played 2. Nf3 this seems like a bad idea. (And after 2. Ne2 how to avoid the Sveshnikov?)

(after 3. d4 cxd4)

- 4. Qxd4
Some people recommended this here. Is this better than the Moscow for someone who doesn't play the Rossolimo?

- 4. c3
I tend to reject this because I believe the people who insist the wing gambit is better.

(after 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6)

6. something like 3. Nd2 in the French: something that doesn't allow black to play the type of game that he wants. Something that calles for a different sort of dynamics. Does that exist?


Many thanks!

mad_knight wrote on 07/17/07 at 15:16:49:


Downloading TWIC every week will get you quite far:

http://www.chesscenter.com/twic/twicp.html

If you are fanatic, buying Tim Harding's corr games database is also a good idea.

@ chk

Many thanks for your comprehensive analysis of the frequency of Sicilians as a percentage of total games, and the resulting conclusion and recommendations.  
I think your "radical solution" would suit me as a replacement for the Alapin and a progressive way to get to play the Open later on. 

@ kylemeister

But then kylemeister comes along and tells me I can't avoid the Scheveningen in the 2...e6 variation, since 5 Nd2 looks like a sham after 5...d6. So I'm in a bind again? Not necessarily, read on...

P.S. I've seen a lot of (very) good reviews about Watson's "Understanding the Chess Openings, so I may well buy it.

@ MNb

I like your recommendation to shift right away to the Open, taking into account I'm primarily a correspondence player. I've considered it myself not so long ago, even decided how I would play against each of Black's responses and bought some opening books accordingly... But then I chickened out, it looked like such a huge leap forward...

Now, shifting to the Open right away looks like the best (and only) way to go for me.  So I'll cast aside my doubts and do just that.  Come to think of it, I might as well upgrade my other openings as well and gradually shift to the Ruy and the Main line French and Caro for example.  I've already been surfing through these openings and they're so much richer in content.  

Re databases, I've made do so far with:
- the Opening Explorer at chessgames.com, which is very useful to explore new openings, but has only 440.000 games (and from Morphy to Kasparov...);
- chesslab.com, which contains over 2.000.000 games over a similar period and has a chess analysis engine, but many games are from below top level players;
- chessbase light.

I should probably get hold of some more powerful database(s) of the sort my opponents will be using as well.
Could you give me some pointers here?

Many thanks to all, you've been a great help!  

Well, I can readily believe that 2...e6 3. c4 Nc6 4. Nc3 (more critical than 4. d4, I presume) e5 could be a major obstacle, though I don't have any deep knowledge of it. I certainly wouldn't play it for White with a tempo less, which is what playing 3. c4 against 2...d6 or 2...Nc6 amounts to. In other words, White needs the extra tempo to compensate for his doubtfully-placed knight after ...e5. 
I wouldn't recommend 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cd 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nd2, which looks rather odd/passive/unpromising. After 5...d6 I would already rather be Black.

Incidentally (as many here may know), "the poisonous 3. b3" is also Larry Kaufman's recommendation in his "Black and White" repertoire book of a few years ago. 

As for general advice, I don't really know what to say. Personally I played the Alapin until I was much higher than 1600, though that was in a somewhat different era. 

There are a few books I would think of suggesting for getting a grounding in the Open Sicilian, but I wonder if the e-pawn volume of Watson's "Understanding the Chess Openings" or Komarov et al's "Chess Opening Essentials" (neither of which I've seen) might be the best single choice for most players today. 

@ chk

Why do I want to learn yet another anti-Sicilian after 2...e6 if given a choice? Well, I feel the Alapin doesn't prepare well for the Open:  ...Qxd5 looks like a French Tarrasch (which I play versus the French), while ...Nf6 looks like a bad (for White) form of the Alekhine and is considered the better of the two variations for Black. Hardly a good preparation for a later Open IMHO.

So why not start playing the Open after 2...e6, as you suggest? As a matter of fact, I've been thinking about this for a while already, since the Kan-Taimanov-4 Knights complex looks like a good way to start.  It is "safer" and easier to understand than the wilder and more popular variations of the Open.  What held me back is that Black can transpo to the Scheveningen after 4...Nf6; 5 Nc3, which is one bridge too far for me.  Until I found out play can go 5 Nd2 d5 instead, which transposes to a variation of ...the French Tarrasch.  Other 5th moves by Black look easy to handle (5...Nc6) or transpo to some sort of Kan (5...a6 and ...d6), but I haven't seen enough games to make a proper evaluation of them.

What do you think? Could this be something? Or should I stick to 3 c4 anyway since you've been playing it successfully for 2 years?! I'm sure MNb and Ptero will not agree! Mind you, my Elo must be around 1600 (it's 1800 in correspondence chess, which I play almost exclusively), so a theoretical disadvantage might not be that much of a problem?!

Looking forward to your reactions!

The line given by Ptero vs 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.c4 has been known since long. It can be found in Pachman's 1986 book Moderne Schachtheorie III Sizilianisch via 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nc6 5.c4 Nf6 6.Nc3 Bb4 eg Czerniak-Najdorf, Mar del Plata 1942 (!).
Kindermann on his website pleads for 3.b3 though:

http://chessgate.de/training/training_kindermann/training_kindermann.html

A little scrolling is necessary:

"Teil 2: Eine Waffe gegen Sizilianisch mit 2. ... e6 — das giftige 3. b3!?"

mad_knight wrote on 07/15/07 at 20:27:43:


Sorry to disappoint you but 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.c4 is gives just nothing for white. As was mentioned by a previous poster, either 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.c4 Nc6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nf6 6.Nc3 (6.Nxc6?! bxc6 7.Nc3 e5 is even worse) Bb4, or 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.c4 Nc4 4.Nc3 e5
All this is well dealt in Delchev's and Semkov's "Safest Sicilian"

As a life-long 2...e6 Sicilian player, who has faced these "anti" system many times, I can say that I'm not in the least impressed with 3.b3, 3.c4, 3.Nc3 and also 3.d3 (that doesn't mean that a stronger player can't beat me with these systems, but that's a different story...). Other than 3.d4, the only way to fight for a theoretical edge against 2...e6 is 3.c3 

mad_knight wrote on 07/15/07 at 16:42:46:



Yes, White would like to reach a Maroczy Bind position by playing d4 at an opportune moment. It's one of those "played occasionally by GMs" lines. Don't know of a concentrated source of information, but here are some basics. 

1. Black sometimes plays ...e5 soon, e.g. after 3...Nc6 4. Nc3 (4. d4?! cd 5. Nxd4 Nf6 6. Nc3 Bb4), but of course there it costs him a tempo in comparison to 2...d6/Nc6 3. c4?! e5. 

2. Black can play for (an early) ...d5, e.g. 3...Nc6 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. Be2 d5; then after 6. ed ed 7. d4 there's the question of how useful White's extra move is in this symmetrical position. (I believe this line was the subject of a NIC Yearbook article sometime in the recent past.) 

3. Another good question is whether Black can equalise by playing like this: 3...Nc6 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. Be2 Be7 6. 0-0 0-0 7. d4 cd 8. Nxd4 d5. 

Editing:  This slipped my mind before, but I think the line that is lately considered the best for Black is 3...Nc6 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. Be2 Qb6.

some "classical" anti-sicilians are, after 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 :
- after 2...e6  : 3. b3 (also 3. Nc3 is not an anti- but cuts off several options for Black)
- after 2...d6  : 3. Bc4
- after 2...Nc6 : 3. Bb5
each one is sound and 100% correct, so you can play against the sicilian just like this if you wish.

3 look good in my eyes:

a) 3.Bb5+: a true anti-sicilian in that the position may turn to be quite diferent from an Open-Sicilian. Some lines are very drawish (3.Bb5+ Bd7) and White tries to take the advantage by keeping open the options of entering an Open Sicilian (with d4) or a Maroczy bind (with c4 & d4) later on, which sometimes makes it positionally complicated.

b) 3.c4: Going for a Maroczy Bind (with 4.d4) either against d6/e6 or d6/g6. Recommended if you want to practice playing these positions as many 2. .. d6 players will be confused and not familiar with the Maroczy Bind. Of course 3.c4 e5! is a problem. Note that 3.c4 can be applied against 2. .. e6 or even 2. .. Nc6 as well. All in all recommended.

c) Qxd4: Most of the positions arising from this line result to normal Open Sicilian play. White's thematic attacks are there to practice and Black needs to know what he/she is doing. Seems the best option if you are planning to take on the Open Sicilian later on. There is a nice discussion by TopNotch in a thread in this forum, if you are interested I can search for it.

chk