I will begin with 1.f4 d5 2.Nf3 c5 3.e3 g6 4.Bb5+

A1) 4...Bd7 5.Bxd7+ Nxd7 6.0-0 Bg7 7.d3 Ngf6 8.Nc3 (I am not so fond of 8.b3, 9.Bb2 and 10.c4) 0-0 9.e4 and White can continue in GP-style. A typical example is Pirc-Spielmann, Rogaska Slatina 1931, with colours reversed. I have never been sure what the optimal square is for the queen. Spielmann played it to e7 (thus e2), but only at move 12. Of course the route via e1 to h4 is attractive as well, following the typical plan of the GP-Attack.
A2) 4...Bd7 5.Bxd7+ Qxd7 6.0-0 Bg7 7.d3 Nc6 and again there are hardly good examples of play in practice. After 8.Nc3 d4! Black has equalized. So 8.Qe2 (8.Qe1 meets with the same idea), but after Nf6 9.Nc3 0-0 10.e4 dxe4 11.dxe4 Nd4 White has nothing or less. He has to equalize with 11.Nxe4 Nxe4 12.dxe4 Nd4 13.Qf2 or 13.Nxd4. In his book on the Dutch Williams recommends postponing castling and also here it seems to pay off: 6.d3 Bg7 7.Qe2 Nc6 8.e4 dxe4 9.dxe4 Nd4 10.Nxd4 cxd4 (Qxd4 11.Nc3 and 12.Be3) 11.0-0 Nf6 12.e5 Nd5 13.Na3 with a smooth development; pawn d4 is a potential weakness.
B) 4...Nd7 (more ambitious; Black wants the pair of bishops) 5.0-0 Bg7 6.a4 (the exchange manoeuvre 6.Ne5 0-0 7.Nxd7 is too slow) Ngf6 7.b3 Ne4 8.Ra2 (compare Botvinnik-Larsen, Leiden 1970)  0-0 9.Bb2 Nd6 10.Bxg7 Kxg7 11.Be2 like Muir-Williams, Hastings 2003/04. The extra tempo seems to matter. If Black plays ...a6 at some stage White will withdraw the bishop to e2 and play along the lines of the IZ again - the knight is not optimally placed on d7, allowing an easy e3-e4.
C) 4...Nc6?! 5.Bxc6+ bxc6 6.0-0 Bg7 7.d3 Nf6 8.Qe2 (8.Nc3 Ba6 9.Ne5 Qd6 10.Qe2 c4) and White is better, he has nicely blockaded the doubled c-pawns in true NID-style.

So 1.f4 d5 2.Nf3 c5 3.e3 Nf6 might be more precise. Later more.

MNb wrote on 08/16/08 at 16:28:17:


This plan of trading white squared bishops and eventually the d3/e4 pawn push might allow black to transposes into a very solid variation of the sicilian grand prix attack with e6 and no damage to his pawn structure.  

Eg:  1. f4 d5 2. Nf3 c5 3. e3 Nf6 4. Bb5 Bd7 5. Bxd7 Nbxd7 6. O-O e6 7. d3 Be7 8.Nc3 O-O 9.e4 d4

MNb wrote on 08/15/08 at 21:23:48:


Any thoughts you have would be very nice to hear.  I don't get the point of the bishop check.  I can see how pinning the c6 knight could help white prepare Ne5 stuff, but the bishop check looks very well met by the simple Bd7.  Whether or not b3/Bb2 and g6/Bg7 have been inserted doesn't seem to matter much.  In either case, the position looks good for black to my novice eyes.

The idea behind playing an early c5 is for transpositional convienence.  For example

1.b3 d5 2. Bb2 c5 is my proposed anti-larsen plan.  but here 3.f4 is a Bird variant where i have c5 input already. Another line is 1.d4 d5 2.e3 Nf6 3.f4 where i play the queen's gambit reversed against the stonewall with 3...c5. I wanted to include early an early c5 against the bird before declaring my intention to fianchetto.  What do you think of the move order d5,c5,Nf6,g6,Bg7 and only Nc6 after white has moved his king's bishop?
What you propose, is perfectly playable, but it is easy for black to make a mistake. If you first develop your king-side and fianchetto, then you avoid most tricky lines. If you want to play it like that, it is always good first to castle, and then to play Nc6.


By the way, my only reference source besides MCO are the dutch defense chapters of "opening for white - Kramnik".  Do most of the ideas for white against the dutch make sense in the bird?
Some of them still make sense, some examples can be found in the book from Taylor about the Bird. However the active systems you are looking for, most of the time you get on well known territory for the Bird player.

Against the Larsen, because of the system you choose, it looks like an English Defence with colors reversed. Playing against that system with one tempo more is already difficult. So with colors reversed, it must be much harder, although I do not know theory here.

Regarding the Reti line you give:

I would play 4...Nf6 declining the gambit (at least untill i'm better developed).  The Benko gambit declined approach is presented for the white player in Grivas' excellent "beating the fianchetto defenses".
Looks like an interesting book!

Black_Widow wrote on 08/13/08 at 00:25:30:


The idea behind playing an early c5 is for transpositional convienence.  For example

1.b3 d5 2. Bb2 c5 is my proposed anti-larsen plan.  but here 3.f4 is a Bird variant where i have c5 input already. Another line is 1.d4 d5 2.e3 Nf6 3.f4 where i play the queen's gambit reversed against the stonewall with 3...c5.

I wanted to include early an early c5 against the bird before declaring my intention to fianchetto.  What do you think of the move order d5,c5,Nf6,g6,Bg7 and only Nc6 after white has moved his king's bishop?

By the way, my only reference source besides MCO are the dutch defense chapters of "opening for white - Kramnik".  Do most of the ideas for white against the dutch make sense in the bird?

Regarding the Reti line you give:

I would play 4...Nf6 declining the gambit (at least untill i'm better developed).  The Benko gambit declined approach is presented for the white player in Grivas' excellent "beating the fianchetto defenses".

Eclectico wrote on 08/12/08 at 07:14:50:


White's most popular variation against the QID is not 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6 4.e3, but 4.g3.

I roughly agree with tracke.  The reversed classical KID seems fine if Black knows what he's doing.  There's some material similar to what tracke mentioned in one of the Dvoretsky books, maybe "Opening Preparation."  A game I recall which might serve as a cautionary tale is Planinc-Rubinetti, from the 1974 Nice Olympiad.

The reversed classical Modern Benoni does look iffy.  One observation is that after 1. Nf3 d5 2. c4 d4 3. e3, Nc6 has long been regarded as very sound for Black.  Another thought I would have is to consider ...Bd6 and ...Nge7 (instead of ...Nf6 and ...Be7) in the reversed Modern Benoni.  (Maybe it's sometimes called the Penrose Variation when White plays it in the MB.)  I recall a model-looking game with that played by Lubomir Kavalek (against Thomas Keffer in 1984), but it isn't in any of the databases I checked ...I wonder if it could be in "Huge Base."   

Regarding the reversed Gruenfeld it might be mentioned that, aside from transposing to a major branch of the Catalan, it could also (basically at Black's choice) lead to something in the Tarrasch/Semi-Tarrasch family.

Is it sensible to play a Queen’s Gambit reversed against all the flank openings?  

As a Queen’s Gambit player with the white pieces, I like having space.  I feel compelled to take space in the center as black when it is offered to me.  However, attempts to claim both central squares with d5 and e5 seem to give a hypermodern white player precisely the target he is looking for.  I’m working on a system involving the moves d5, c5 and Nf6 vs. nearly any flank opening white plays except the English.  

In general, these lines appear relatively closed.  Am I correct in my understanding that extra tempo for white won’t drastically affect my positional understanding of the reverse positions? A quick look at the statistics shows that black fares quite well in these lines.  And of course, playing the same 3 moves vs. nearly any white flank opening makes for a relatively compact repertoire with few transposition difficulties.  I’m not concerned here with an early d4 by white since those d pawn specials are well met by the same black setup. 

Bird - Dutch / Stonewall reversed
1. f4 d5 2. Nf3 c5 3. d3 Nf6 4. g3 Nc6 5. Bg2 g6 6. O-O Bg7 
1. f4 d5 2. Nf3 c5 3. g3 Nf6 4. Bg2 g6 5. O-O Bg7 
1. f4 d5 2. Nf3 c5 3. b3 Nf6 4. Bb2 g6 5. e3 Bg7 
1. f4 d5 2. Nf3 c5 3. e3 Nf6 4. d4 Nc6 5. c3 Bf5 

Larsen - Queen’s / Bogo Indian reversed
1. b3 d5 2. Bb2 c5 3. e3 Nf6 4. Nf3 e6 5. d4 Nc6 
1. b3 d5 2. Bb2 c5 3. e3 Nf6 4. Nf3 e6 5. c4 Nc6 
1. Nf3 d5 2. b3 c5 3. e3 Nf6 4. Bb5 Nbd7

Sokolsky - Polish defense reversed
1. b4 d5 2. Bb2 Nf6 3. e3 e6 4. b5 c5 
1. b4 d5 2. Bb2 Nf6 3. Nf3 e6 4. a3 c5 

Reti - Benoni / Benko Gambit declined reversed
1. Nf3 d5 2. c4 d4 3. g3 c5 4. Bg2 Nc6 5. O-O e5 6. d3 Nf6 
1. Nf3 d5 2. c4 d4 3. e3 c5 4. exd4 cxd4 5. d3 Nc6 6. g3 e5 7. Bg2 Nf6 
1. Nf3 d5 2. c4 d4 3. e3 c5 4. b4 Nf6 
1. Nf3 d5 2. c4 d4 3. b4 c5 4. Bb2 Nf6 

KIA - King’s Indian reversed
1. Nf3 d5 2. g3 c5 3. Bg2 Nf6 4. O-O Nc6 5. d3 e5 
1. Nf3 d5 2. g3 c5 3. Bg2 Nc6 4. d3 e5 5. O-O Nf6 6. e4 d4 

Benko Opening - Modern reversed
1. g3 d5 2. Bg2 c5 3. d3 Nf6 4. Nd2 e5 
1. g3 d5 2. Bg2 c5 3. d3 Nf6 4. e4 Nc6 5. Nd2 e5