TN wrote on 03/14/09 at 12:16:49:


Rather not transpose to the Open Sicilian via 1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nc3 e6 4.e4 Nc6 5.d4?! cxd4 6.Nxd4 as Black does splendidly after ...Bb4. 6...Qc7 occurred between those two Super GM's at Villarobledo with players reversed; in the Corus Tournament of 2006 Vishy did not play ...e6 at all.

Warning: This is a very long post. I have tried to cover as many transpositions as possible here, leaving out only those that I felt were unimportant or otherwise simply overlooked.

1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.Nc3

Why do I think 3.Nc3 is a better choice (for me at least) than 3.g3 or 3.d4?

In spite of the popularity of 3.d4, particularly at Grandmaster level, the reason I think that it offers Black quite easy equality is the Kasparov Gambit with 4...e5 5.Nb5 d5 6.cd5 Bc5, which according to Dangerous Weapons: Flank Openings gives Black fully sufficient compensation for the material. Even if White emerges with a slightly better position, Black's active pieces offer him good practical chances (like most general topics, this is open to debate). 

With 3.g3, White commits himself to a kingside fianchetto. In the vast majority of lines, in order to fight for any advantage he has to play Nc3 in the opening. In the 3.g3 b6 4.Bg2 Bb7 5.0-0 e6/g6 variation, White has to play Nc3 or else he has no edge whatsoever. If White tries to postpone or avoid Nc3 with a double-fianchetto himself against 3...Nc6 or 3...g6, then he has to settle for equality. Ditto for the 3...e6 4.Bg2 Nc6 variation.

That leaves the 3...d5 variation, the most common according to the Mega Database Opening Key. The only real reason for White to prefer 3.g3 over 3.Nc3 is to play 4.cd5 Nd5 5.Bg2 Nc6 6.d4, but this variation has been known as equal for Black for donkeys years.

So my logic is, if White is going to have to play 3.Nc3 regardless of whether he does it immediately or after fianchettoing his king's bishop, why not do it straight away and retain the choice between a king's bishop fianchetto, a quick e4 or a quick d4 - the last option to reach positions that bear resemblance to 1.d4.

After 3.Nc3, Black has several options - I will examine 3...b6, 3...g6, 3...e6, 3...Nc6 and 3...d5. 

What is Black trying to achieve with 3...b6?

In most cases, he is striving for a Hedgehog setup. However, instead of transposing to the 3.g3 b6 variation with 4.g3 Bb7 5.Bg2, White should either play 4.d4 cd4 (4...Bb7 5.d5 is a favourable Benoni because Black's b7-bishop is slightly misplaced) 5.Nd4 Bb7 6.f3 e6 7.e4 with a slight advantage in a Maroczy Bind, or else 4.e4 (this would be my preference) 4...d6 5.d4 cd4 6.Nd4 Bb7 7.Bd3 when Black can try either 7...e6 or 7...g6, but in either case White should keep the advantage. 7.Qe2 e6 8.g3 Be7 9.Bg2 also appears a bit better for White.

Is 3...g6 annoying for White players?

I do not think that this is a problem for White as long as he is aware of the possible transpositions to other variations (as shown here). If 4.d4, then 4...cd4 5.Nd4 is a favourable version of the 3.d4 lines as Black is committed to the 4...g6 variation, which is slightly inferior to 4...Nc6 and 4...e6. Then White has a pleasant choice between the Maroczy Bind and the 3.g3 g6 4.Bg2 Bg7 5.0-0 0-0 6.Nc3 Nc6 7.d4 cd4 8.Nd4 variation, both of which theory considers slightly better for White. Black can play 4...Bg7, but then White can play 5.d5 if he plays the Benoni with Nf3 as White, and the sensible 5.e3 if he doesn't. By playing in this manner, White does not have to learn the Fianchetto KID with 6...c5 7.Nc3 Nc6 and will thus reach the variations he wants to play while ducking variations he wishes to avoid. 

Which move is a better choice against 3...e6: 4.e4 or 4.g3?

It depends on what variation you would prefer to transpose into.

If you don't mind the Hedgehog (English version with 3.Nc3 e6 4.g3 b6 5.Bg2 Bg7 6.0-0 Be7 etc) then play 4.g3 with a likely transposition to that after 4...b6 or 4...d5, which will transpose to 3...d5 unless White does not meet 3...d5 with 4.cd5 Nd5 5.g3. 

In that case, I recommend that White plays 4.e4, transposing to a quite tricky Anti-Sicilian (1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.c4 Nf6 4.Nc3), when one of the key games in Ivanchuk-Anand, Wijk Aan Zee 2006. Anand won the game when Vassily incorrectly played 15.Ba7, but before then he had a slight advantage. It also makes a lot of sense to play this if you play 1.e4 as well and prefer Anti-Sicilians to Open Sicilians.

How does 3...Nc6 influence White in terms of possible transpositions?

According to my Opening Key, White has three options: 4.e4, 4.e3 and 4.g3. 

If you enjoy facing the Sicilian as White (presuming you are an 1.e4 player as well), then you should consider 4.e4, when after 4...e6 you transpose into the 3...e6 4.e4 Nc6 variation above and after 4...d6 you can achieve a Maroczy Bind with 5.d4. However, the move 4...e5 could be quite an annoying move to face over the board. 

4.e3 is a sensible option, particularly since one of the main lines, 4...e5 5.d4 cd4 6.ed4 e4 7.Ne5 Bb4 8.Be2 Qa5 9.Nc6 dc6 10.Bd2, appears slightly better for White at present. However, you need to have the Panov-Botvinnik variation of the Caro-Kann in your repertoire, since 4...e6 5.d4 cd4 6.ed4 d5 is precisely that, and 5...d5 transposes to the Semi-Tarrasch. So in practical terms, 4.e3 is probably not White's best choice.

4.g3 may well be White's best option here. We can dismiss 4...e5 5.Bg2 d6 6.0-0 as being slightly better for White, since the Nf6 belongs on e7. After 4...d5, I recommend that White plays 5.cd5 Nd5 6.Bg2 leading to mainstream lines, whereas 5.d4 cd4 6.Nd4 dc4 7.Nc6 Qd1 8.Nd1 bc6 9.Bg2 Nd5 is an equal endgame. 

This leaves the 4...e6 variation, against which the main line is 5.Bg2 Be7 (5...d5 will transpose to the Rubinstein with 6.cd5 Nd5 or the Tarrasch after 6...ed5 7.d4. If you intend to play g3 at an early stage in the Symmetrical English, then you will have to know how to meet the Tarrasch.) 6.0-0 0-0 7.d4 when I would rather be White, although I don't know the ins and outs of this exact variation at present.

After 3...d5 4.cd5 Nd5, should White play 5.d4, 5.e4 or 5.g3?

If White has the Semi-Tarrasch and the Grunfeld in his White repertoire, then 5.d4 is worth considering, since 5...cd4 6.Qd4 Nc3 7.Qc3 Nc6 8.e4 is simply better for White, scoring a huge 73%, whilst 5...Nc3 6.bc3 g6 7.e4 Bg7 is a Grunfeld and 5...e6 6.e4 Nc3 7.bc3 is one of the key variations of the Semi-Tarrasch. 

5.e4 is a good choice if you like sharp, unbalanced positions where creativity is rewarded. Personally I think that Black can fully equalise with best play, but I could be wrong since I am not an expert on this line. Black should play 5...Nb4 as both 5...Nc7 6.d4 cd4 7.Qd4 and 5...Nc3 6.dc3 Qd1 7.Kd1 Nc6 8.Be3 favour White. A good starting point is to study the game Vallejo Pons-Leko, Linares 2003, a very complicated and interesting game where the Spaniard defends accurately when his opponent sacrifices material to seize the initiative. 

5.g3 is probably the best option for someone seeking a more positional struggle, although this line can also become quite tactical if both players oblige. To see what to do if Black plays ...e5, I recommend studying Marin's survey in Yearbook 65, and against 5...Nc6 6.Bg2 e6, I recommend 7.0-0 Be7 8.d4 when I think White has a (very) slight advantage. However, I quite like 6...g6 for Black, when White's best option may well be 7.0-0 Bg7 8.Nd5 Qd5 9.d3, although after 9...0-0 10.Be3 Bd7 11.Nd4 Qd6 12.Nc6 Bc6 13.Bc6 Qc6 14.Rc1 Qe6 15.Rc5 Qa2 16.Rb5 Qa6 I don't think White has any advantage. 

I hope this provides a complete answer to Michael Ayton's original question at the start of this thread.

[quote author=nmga link=1236423519/15#15 date=1236941515][i]MNb wrote[/i][b][comments by me][/b][i]:[/i]

Trying to play the Maroczy Wall via the English meets a few move order issues as well, especially when the Nc2-variation is involved.

1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nf6
2...g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nc6 6.Nc2 Bxc3+ is a Maroczy White certainly does not want to play; the insertion of x.e4 d6 does not make much difference. So 2...g6 3.d4 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Be2 and now Black may try 5...f5!?
Especially here [b][Where, exactly? After 5 Be2(!) sure 5 ...f5 is possible, but should this really discourage a White 'Bind' player?] [/b]White's best seems to be a Benoni.

3.Nc3 g6
There is also 3...d5 when 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.g3 (5.e3, 5.e4) Nc6 6.Bg2 Nc7 and White is playing against his own system. [b][But this is true after 3 g3 as well, whereas with 3 Nc3 White has the Nimzo 5 e4!? option, for whatever that's worth.][/b][/quote]

Eeehhh, no, if White avoids to play the Maroczy Sicilian with Nc2 himself (s)he is not playing against his/her own system when Black choses ...d5 and ...Nc7.
Look, I am not arguing you should play this or that. By far I don't know enough about the English to tell you. I just wanted to point out some possible difficulties when building a repertoire after 1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nf6, based on an old book by Taimanov. If you have solved them, I am glad for you (honestly).

nyoke wrote on 03/10/09 at 18:36:36:


Fischer was also willing to play the black side of the Maroczy, but that doesn't mean it is "harmless". 

Tiviakov has extensive experience of the Maroczy, and I think his DVD is pretty good, but I'm not convinced that the Maroczy has been de-fanged. Ask masters which side of the Maroczy they'd rather play and most will still say White!

Not that I consider myself in any way expert enough but  isn't the Marcoczy Bind considered to be harmless nowadays ? (Just buy the DVD by Tiviakov)

On the other hand : isn't the charm of all these lines that nobody knows how to rate them (it's quite common in the symmetric to see opposing valuations on the same positions in different books/articles ?

I wonder if we're talking slightly at cross purposes in some way here? 3 Nc3 g6 4 g3 Nc6 5 Bg2 Bg7 6 0-0 0-0 7 d4 d6 8 d5 [i]is[/i] a Fianchetto KID, the Yugoslav [E65]. I assume, TN, this (up to 7 ...d6) is the position you're referring to at the end of your last paragraph. I don't have a view yet on the question you pose there, but while the Maroczy Bind line attracts me I'd be interested to know whether the KID line with 8 dc!? isn't still thought good for White, as [i]NCO[/i] (p. 500, cols 7--10) maintains. The ChessPub coverage of this looks in serious need of updating!

White can also play 6 d4 here, of course: is the critical line then 6 ...Qa5 7 d5 Ne4?

Are we agreed that after 1 Nf3 Nf6 2 c4 c5 [i]3 g3[/i] g6, heading for A39 or E65 with 4 Bg2 Bg7 5 Nc3 is a stronger option for White than Davies' 4 b3? Has Black any significant alternatives to [5] ...Nc6 here?

[quote]It must be late indeed .... Please reread my post. If White does not play d4-d5 it never can be a Benoni. If White only plays d4-d5 in answer to ...c5/...Nc6 it is only one variation of the Fianchetto KID; not the main line with ...Nbd7 and ...e5 ao.
In other words - White can play 3.g3 without entering the Benoni and with avoiding the largest part of the Fianchetto KID.[/quote]

Uh?? Who said anything about 'main lines' or 'largest parts'?