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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Closed vs c3 (Read 19275 times)
Scott
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Re: Closed vs c3
Reply #10 - 03/20/09 at 01:04:16
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Never thought of playing it KIA style. I have considered trying out the KIA, but haven't done it yet. Would there be any difference playing it out of a Sicilian setup as opposed to starting out with 1. Nf3?
  
My style is somewhere between that of Petrosian and Tal.
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chk
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Re: Closed vs c3
Reply #9 - 03/19/09 at 10:08:23
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I second the KIA suggestion.

Moreover, there is the option to enter it via 2. Nf3 (a la Fischer) and then decide, depending on Black's answer, whether to follow it up with the Open Sic or in KIA style (d3).
  
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MNb
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Re: Closed vs c3
Reply #8 - 03/19/09 at 02:18:34
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In that case you might consider 1.e4 c5 2.d3. If Black plays an early ...d5 you answer Nd2 and play a KIA. After 1.e4 c5 2.d3 Nc6 3.g3 g6 4.Bg2 Bg7 5.f4 you will have the choice between x.c3 and x.Nc3.

At the other hand - the Open Sicilian combined with a King's Fianchetto (the Davies repertoire) is quite positional.
  
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Scott
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Re: Closed vs c3
Reply #7 - 03/18/09 at 19:10:27
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Matemax wrote on 03/18/09 at 12:38:50:
Closed or c3 - from a practical point of view understandable. But you really miss something in your e4-chess life if you do not enter the Open Sicilians. If you dont like fighting directly out of the opening, why not change to d4 or c4!?


Believe me, I haven't missed out on the Open Sicilian. I've played the Dragon many times as Black, and the Najdorf quite a few times, as well.

I don't plan to totally give up playing the Open Sicilian as White, but recently, I've found myself enjoying quiter, positional play. Maybe, just a phase, but I'm enjoying it right now.

BTW, I have been playing 1. d4 a lot and 1. c4 some, as well.
  
My style is somewhere between that of Petrosian and Tal.
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MNb
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Re: Closed vs c3
Reply #6 - 03/18/09 at 15:04:37
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Cons: 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 e6 3.g3 d5 is not very interesting. After 1.e4 c5 2.c3 you will get a lot of posititions with a minute edge, which demand high techical skills to create winning chances.

Pros: you will fight on your own terrain. But that's the only pro I can think of - in the end you will find out that Anti-Sicilians demand as much work to maintain as the slightly off-beat Open Sicilians.

Note: when I played the Sicilian as Black I was fully prepared for both 2.c3 and 2.Nc3. Especially against the first I had no problem to take White off-guard.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Matemax
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Re: Closed vs c3
Reply #5 - 03/18/09 at 12:38:50
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Closed or c3 - from a practical point of view understandable. But you really miss something in your e4-chess life if you do not enter the Open Sicilians. If you dont like fighting directly out of the opening, why not change to d4 or c4!?
  
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chk
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Re: Closed vs c3
Reply #4 - 03/18/09 at 08:55:50
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Your last question certainly makes sense (imo use this approach only in blitz/friendlies). Only point for attention is to select carefully which set-ups of Black you want to try out.

e.g. suppose you choose to play the Alapin with Qxd4 vs. the Nf6 main line. Play some games also as Black against the cxd4 line, as they may show to you some useful pointers on when some manoeuvres work or not (maybe my point has more sense if you choose the Closed Sicilian as the pawn structures are more fluid and many times overlap with each other).

and some food for thought:
- Alapin: if you also like the French Advance, you may try to transpose to the French
- Closed Sicilian with c3 (the 'Big Clamp'): the greedy approach to chess
  
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ANDREW BRETT
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Re: Closed vs c3
Reply #3 - 03/18/09 at 08:45:31
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Any game of Sveshnikov in the c3 sicilian has to be viewed in addition to those in bibs' list.

I think the c3 may lead to slightly more open game than the closed and your choice may depend on which of those you prefer.
  
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Scott
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Re: Closed vs c3
Reply #2 - 03/18/09 at 04:45:45
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The fact that they catch people off-guard frequently is one of the main reasons I've dabbled in them and plan to take up one or both against the Sicilian.

Let me add another question: When I study openings, I always try to understand why the moves are made. (Otherwise, it seems to be robotic memorization with no help to your understanding of the game.) So, would you also approach these openings from Black's perspective to get a better understanding of how to stop his plans? (If I'm not clear enough with my question let me know, and I'll try to rephrase it.)
  
My style is somewhere between that of Petrosian and Tal.
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Bibs
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Re: Closed vs c3
Reply #1 - 03/18/09 at 04:05:05
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I have played both a lot over the years.

Will focus on q3.

3) Depends on your level, but for most people one system is sufficient. No need to spread your knowledge and pattern recognition building thinly.

You can vary greatly within the c3 sicilian btw, particularly choosing systems versus  2...Nf6.

Both have the advantage btw that black players are instantly dischuffed that they are not able to play their fave line. 
To best effect against kids, dragon players. If the dragon player is a kid, the pysch victory and the game is yours. Great to watch the grimaces.
This applies to c3 particularly.

Materials:
Closed sicilian - 
Palliser 
Emms e4 repertoire book.
Games of Spassky.

c3 Sicilian - the ultimate book on this yet to be published. 
Best is Emms' recent text.
Games of Howell, D.,  Tiviakov, Sermek, Pavasovic, Smerdon
(cant remember others - look em up)

« Last Edit: 03/18/09 at 09:47:22 by Bibs »  
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Scott
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Why did I just move that?!

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Closed vs c3
03/18/09 at 03:13:00
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I've dabbled with both the Closed and the c3 Sicilian. I think I would much prefer to play one or both of them as White vs. the Sicilian rather than playing the Open Sicilian. So, my questions for those of you with experience with them are: 1) What are the pros/cons of them as compared to each other? 2) What style of play do each of them generally lead to? 3) Should I only concentrate on one or would you recommend a mixture of the two?
  
My style is somewhere between that of Petrosian and Tal.
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