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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) One quick question about the English (why Nf3 ?) (Read 8589 times)
Damien Calloway
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Re: One quick question about the English (why Nf3 ?)
Reply #15 - 06/12/09 at 03:48:39
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Markovich wrote on 06/10/09 at 23:55:46:
Damien Calloway wrote on 06/10/09 at 21:10:47:

I once played e4 when I tried to learn chess back in 1999-2000, but kept getting picked apart very fast


Oh yeah?  Well, what's your rating now?  Because with the level of sophistication that you appear to have, it's not about the opening, it's about how well you develop your pieces and how well you spot ideas on the chessboard.  There is no opening system that will answer for that.  I would say more, but it would go even further offtopic.

And yes, it is rather annoying for someone to come here and ask for free chess lessons on topics concerning which they could very well do some independent research.


I see. I apologise for that; in my excitement at spotting this website and forum, I had not stopped to consider that part. Not everything is in Google, though I have found that a great deal of semi-current chess books - including NCO - is available at my local library (to check out, not as a reference. Yay !). But I have found a great deal of information within the past two or three days, literally. 

At any rate, I thank you all for answering my questions ! And yes, the other thread has been very helpful as well. I now know how to proceed from here.
  
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Re: One quick question about the English (why Nf3 ?)
Reply #14 - 06/11/09 at 02:48:06
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Nf3 in the English is done in the to provide for the d4 break, which tends to make for active piece play, or Maroczy Bind structures.

It is not just a KIA, or Reti. It is definitely not just a Catalan without d4, either.
  

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Re: One quick question about the English (why Nf3 ?)
Reply #13 - 06/10/09 at 23:55:46
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Damien Calloway wrote on 06/10/09 at 21:10:47:

I once played e4 when I tried to learn chess back in 1999-2000, but kept getting picked apart very fast


Oh yeah?  Well, what's your rating now?  Because with the level of sophistication that you appear to have, it's not about the opening, it's about how well you develop your pieces and how well you spot ideas on the chessboard.  There is no opening system that will answer for that.  I would say more, but it would go even further offtopic.

And yes, it is rather annoying for someone to come here and ask for free chess lessons on topics concerning which they could very well do some independent research.
  

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Re: One quick question about the English (why Nf3 ?)
Reply #12 - 06/10/09 at 21:34:51
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Markovich wrote on 06/10/09 at 20:00:10:
Get a book and read it, for crying out loud.  But with this much chess knowledge you should probably be playing 1.e4.


I won't go that far. But already at your announcement at that 1.d4 thread I thought it a bad idea for you to dabble in the English. GM Sosonko once remarked that it would take him two years to switch from 1.d4 to 1.e4. Now do you think you are able to develop full white repertoires with 1.d4 and 1.c4 simultaneously?
My advise: forget about 1.c4 for the first couple of years. Focus on 1.d4 and 2.c4 first. This will keep you more than busy for a long time.
  

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Damien Calloway
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Re: One quick question about the English (why Nf3 ?)
Reply #11 - 06/10/09 at 21:10:47
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@Markovich - sorry if I annoyed you; it's only that I am trying to make sense of all the stuff I Googled.... 

@Fllg - I once played e4 when I tried to learn chess back in 1999-2000, but kept getting picked apart very fast; I then read My System and found out about the Reti - then lost even faster. Since then, I found the Colle thru a recommendation of that Soltis book. I have not really tried any other openings. I am keeping an eye out for additions/replacements for the Colle, though... in the meantime, it is what I already play. I guess now, they call it Colle-Koltanowski. There is a Colle Zukertort, I may try that, but I don't think the positions I will get will be much better... I really have not tried anything besides Colle, Torre, Stonewall, Ruy Lopez, and Reti. Oh, and Catalan, but only yesterday. I thought I'd try the English, but it is too Reti-like. 

As far as the English goes, I will research further. Never thought I would need MCO/ECO but it seems that is where I am heading to. In the meantime, thanks for all of your help.
  
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Re: One quick question about the English (why Nf3 ?)
Reply #10 - 06/10/09 at 20:15:22
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If you don´t like the Reti you shouldn´t play the English as well since they are often very similar strategically. Both are flank openings which are difficult to handle without some experience.

I second Markovichs advice. Perhaps a book with an overview of ALL openings may help you. 

Did you ever play something different from the Colle? If so you really should try out 1.e4 at least for some time.  Wink
  
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Re: One quick question about the English (why Nf3 ?)
Reply #9 - 06/10/09 at 20:00:10
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Get a book and read it, for crying out loud.  But with this much chess knowledge you should probably be playing 1.e4.
  

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Damien Calloway
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Re: One quick question about the English (why Nf3 ?)
Reply #8 - 06/10/09 at 19:58:58
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Fllg wrote on 06/10/09 at 19:53:50:
Nomenclature in chessopenings isn´t easy especially with openings like the English and Reti which tend to transpose into each other in a lot of variations.

The main obvious difference between these two is that 1.c4 allows 1...e5 while 1.Nf3 allows 1...d5. 

In my opinion neither of these openings is a good choice for a beginner or a player just starting to work on his chess. On the other hand you should play what you like as long as you have fun with it.

EDIT: Markovich was quicker  Wink


I see... I do not like the Reti. Are there any variations of the English that do not transpose into the Reti ? And are they playable ?
  
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Re: One quick question about the English (why Nf3 ?)
Reply #7 - 06/10/09 at 19:58:49
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Fllg wrote on 06/10/09 at 19:53:50:

In my opinion neither of these openings is a good choice for a beginner or a player just starting to work on his chess.


Too right, mate.
  

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Re: One quick question about the English (why Nf3 ?)
Reply #6 - 06/10/09 at 19:53:50
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Nomenclature in chessopenings isn´t easy especially with openings like the English and Reti which tend to transpose into each other in a lot of variations.

The main obvious difference between these two is that 1.c4 allows 1...e5 while 1.Nf3 allows 1...d5. 

In my opinion neither of these openings is a good choice for a beginner or a player just starting to work on his chess. On the other hand you should play what you like as long as you have fun with it.

EDIT: Markovich was quicker  Wink
  
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Re: One quick question about the English (why Nf3 ?)
Reply #5 - 06/10/09 at 19:44:06
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Damien Calloway wrote on 06/10/09 at 19:12:53:


What makes the English different from the Reti or the KIA ?


There are many possible ways to play the English, and many possible ways for Black to play against it.  I suggest you consult some reference books.  There's a good Starting Out book by Neil MacDonald.  

However the Reti is 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 without White's early d4, while in the English ...d5 is not played so readily. Obviously though, you could see a transposition from the English to the Reti if Black prepared a quick ...d5 with either ...c6 or ...e6 and White held back his d-pawn and played an early Nf3.  

Fairly obviously also, 1.c4 does not fit in with the KIA. 
  

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Damien Calloway
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Re: One quick question about the English (why Nf3 ?)
Reply #4 - 06/10/09 at 19:12:53
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kylemeister wrote on 06/10/09 at 17:33:25:
Er, in the English White almost always plays g3 and/or Nf3.

To get an overview of the variations in a given opening, you could use a source such as MCO, ECO/Small ECO etc.


Really ? Always ? Mind you, I am far from expert, but still... whenever I see Nf3/g3/Bg2, I think "Reti !"  I have bad memories of Reti. What makes the English different from the Reti or the KIA ?
  
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Re: One quick question about the English (why Nf3 ?)
Reply #3 - 06/10/09 at 17:40:43
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Markovich wrote on 06/10/09 at 17:38:18:
I don't understand about the King's Indian versus the English.  The King's Indian is for Black to play, the English, for White.


I suppose he meant King's Indian Reversed/Attack.  But, still ...
  
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Re: One quick question about the English (why Nf3 ?)
Reply #2 - 06/10/09 at 17:38:18
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I don't understand about the King's Indian versus the English.  The King's Indian is for Black to play, the English, for White.
  

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Re: One quick question about the English (why Nf3 ?)
Reply #1 - 06/10/09 at 17:33:25
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Er, in the English White almost always plays g3 and/or Nf3.

To get an overview of the variations in a given opening, you could use a source such as MCO, ECO/Small ECO etc.
  
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