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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Any information about 1 c4 b5!? (Read 15527 times)
Mikhail_Golubev
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Re: Any information about 1 c4 b5!?
Reply #16 - 04/14/13 at 11:11:09
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FM Shtembuliak and his 1.c4 a6 2.Nc3 b5 game (played in 2012) in the Odessa, Ukraine chess TV program, here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61Avt5eVjyQ
  
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MartinC
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Re: Any information about 1 c4 b5!?
Reply #15 - 10/16/09 at 12:28:02
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Well Watson did iirc cover it (very briefly of course!) in the final 'oddments' chapter right at the end of his English series. He certainly did 1 c4 a6 ^ a later b5, g5 and things.

Actually he even 'covers' 1 .. resigns Smiley Could be preferable to 1.. b5 in some ways Wink
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Any information about 1 c4 b5!?
Reply #14 - 10/16/09 at 12:04:59
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boki wrote on 10/16/09 at 11:12:54:
I hope  that Marin will cover it in his second volume, at least 10 pages.

You mean, after the chapter on 1.c4 g5? Followed by the one on 1.c4 Nc6 2.g3 Nd4?
  
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Re: Any information about 1 c4 b5!?
Reply #13 - 10/16/09 at 11:12:54
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I hope  that Marin will cover it in his second volume, at least 10 pages.

Serously, I am amazed what can be played, It never never crossed my mind  Huh
  
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Willempie
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Re: Any information about 1 c4 b5!?
Reply #12 - 10/16/09 at 08:11:37
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Gambit wrote on 10/16/09 at 05:02:43:
I recently played the Chess Champion of Denmark on the Internet. Here is the game.

GM Sune Berg Hansen (2554 ELO) - Zilbermints (2035 ELO)
Internet Chess Club
5 0 rated 5 minute blitz
15 October 2009

HALIBUT GAMBIT

1 c4 b5 2 cxb5 a6 3 e4 axb5 4 Bxb5 Bb7 5 Nc3 c5 6 Nf3 Nf6 7 Qe2 g6 8 e5 Nd5 9 e6 fxe6 10 Qxe6 Nf4! 11 Qe5 Nxg2+ 12 Ke2 Rg8 13 Ne4 Qb6 14 a4 Bg7 15 Qxc5 Nf4+ 16 Ke3 Ng2+ 17 Ke2 Nf4+ 18 Ke3 Ng2+
19 Ke2 Nf4+ DRAWN

My opponent won the Danish Championship in 2002, 2005, 2007 and 2009.

Congrats, nice game.
  
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TN
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Re: Any information about 1 c4 b5!?
Reply #11 - 10/16/09 at 07:29:59
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Gambit wrote on 10/16/09 at 05:02:43:
I recently played the Chess Champion of Denmark on the Internet. Here is the game.

GM Sune Berg Hansen (2554 ELO) - Zilbermints (2035 ELO)
Internet Chess Club
5 0 rated 5 minute blitz
15 October 2009

HALIBUT GAMBIT

1 c4 b5 2 cxb5 a6 3 e4 axb5 4 Bxb5 Bb7 5 Nc3 c5 6 Nf3 Nf6 7 Qe2 g6 8 e5 Nd5 9 e6 fxe6 10 Qxe6 Nf4! 11 Qe5 Nxg2+ 12 Ke2 Rg8 13 Ne4 Qb6 14 a4 Bg7 15 Qxc5 Nf4+ 16 Ke3 Ng2+ 17 Ke2 Nf4+ 18 Ke3 Ng2+
19 Ke2 Nf4+ DRAWN

My opponent won the Danish Championship in 2002, 2005, 2007 and 2009.


This game doesn't change the evaluation of the variation since after 8.d3 or 8.0-0 instead of 8.e5, White is just clearly better, and 7.d3 seems a bit more accurate than 7.Qe2, not that it makes much difference. 3.ba6 is also very depressing for Black.
  
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Gambit
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Re: Any information about 1 c4 b5!?
Reply #10 - 10/16/09 at 05:02:43
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I recently played the Chess Champion of Denmark on the Internet. Here is the game.

GM Sune Berg Hansen (2554 ELO) - Zilbermints (2035 ELO)
Internet Chess Club
5 0 rated 5 minute blitz
15 October 2009

HALIBUT GAMBIT

1 c4 b5 2 cxb5 a6 3 e4 axb5 4 Bxb5 Bb7 5 Nc3 c5 6 Nf3 Nf6 7 Qe2 g6 8 e5 Nd5 9 e6 fxe6 10 Qxe6 Nf4! 11 Qe5 Nxg2+ 12 Ke2 Rg8 13 Ne4 Qb6 14 a4 Bg7 15 Qxc5 Nf4+ 16 Ke3 Ng2+ 17 Ke2 Nf4+ 18 Ke3 Ng2+
19 Ke2 Nf4+ DRAWN

My opponent won the Danish Championship in 2002, 2005, 2007 and 2009.
  
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zoo
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Re: Any information about 1 c4 b5!?
Reply #9 - 06/22/09 at 23:57:12
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If you play e4 first, Black has time for Bg4, e.g. 1.c4 d5 2.cd Nf6 3.Nf3 Nxd5 4.e4 Nb6 5.d4 Bg4 6.Be2 g6 where Black seems to be more incisive than in the d4-e4 move order. Actually the "shadow-boxing" term was referring to avoiding Bg4, as I was not aware that 4.e4 was stronger. Surely this is sorted out by the theory of so-called Marshall Defence?
  
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BPaulsen
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Re: Any information about 1 c4 b5!?
Reply #8 - 06/22/09 at 23:54:06
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kylemeister wrote on 06/22/09 at 23:33:51:
1. c4 d5 2. cd Nf6 3. Nf3 Nxd5 4. d4 just transposes to the traditional main line of the Marshall Defense.  If 3. Nf3 is supposed to merit an exclam, I presume it's associated with the idea of answering 3...Nxd5 with 4. e4.  I'm not sure how that should be better for White than the Marshall main line (which can lead to the same thing in some cases), though.  


It avoids any possible sidelines that would reward black for his play up to that point (ie: 3.Nc3 would actually transpose to the Anglo-Grunfeld, which is equal). 

3. d4 would get an exclamation mark as well.
  
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Re: Any information about 1 c4 b5!?
Reply #7 - 06/22/09 at 23:33:51
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1. c4 d5 2. cd Nf6 3. Nf3 Nxd5 4. d4 just transposes to the traditional main line of the Marshall Defense.  If 3. Nf3 is supposed to merit an exclam, I presume it's associated with the idea of answering 3...Nxd5 with 4. e4.  I'm not sure how that should be better for White than the Marshall main line (which can lead to the same thing in some cases), though.  
  
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zoo
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Re: Any information about 1 c4 b5!?
Reply #6 - 06/22/09 at 23:10:44
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After 1.c4 a6 White can also play g3-Bg2-Nc3 intending either a Botvinnik setup or Nf3-d4 according to Black's reply. Don't know how ...a6 can help Black here, but it remains as amorphous as any English. 

As for 1.c4 d5 2.cd Nf6, 3.Nf3 followed by d4-e4 looks great for White. For instance 3.Nf3 Nxd5 4.d4 g6 5.e4 Nb6 6. h3 c5 7.d5 Bg7 8.Nc3 0-0 9.Be2 is a kind of shadow-boxing sequence leaving White in good shape.
  
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BPaulsen
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Re: Any information about 1 c4 b5!?
Reply #5 - 06/22/09 at 22:55:14
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SWJediknight wrote on 06/22/09 at 20:29:09:
I've often wondered about 1.c4 d5, e.g. 2.cxd5 Nf6 (I don't trust 2...e6 3.Qa4+, while 2...c6 leaves Black a tempo down on the Morra).  Now if 3.e4 (recommended in some sources), then 3...c6 may well give Black sufficient compensation.

One problem might be 3.d4 transposing to the inferior Marshall defence to the Queen's Gambit (1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nf6 3.cxd5).

I agree that 1.c4 a6 2.Nc3 b5 may be a better bet than 1.c4 b5 (it reminds me of the delayed Wing Gambit with 1.e4 c5 2.a3).  However I don't trust it except as a blitz weapon.


1. c4 d5 2. cxd5 Nf6 3. Nf3! +=. It would simply be a transposition to 1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 d5 3. cxd5 which is considered better for white anyway.
  
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SWJediknight
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Re: Any information about 1 c4 b5!?
Reply #4 - 06/22/09 at 20:29:09
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I've often wondered about 1.c4 d5, e.g. 2.cxd5 Nf6 (I don't trust 2...e6 3.Qa4+, while 2...c6 leaves Black a tempo down on the Morra).  Now if 3.e4 (recommended in some sources), then 3...c6 may well give Black sufficient compensation.

One problem might be 3.d4 transposing to the inferior Marshall defence to the Queen's Gambit (1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nf6 3.cxd5).

I agree that 1.c4 a6 2.Nc3 b5 may be a better bet than 1.c4 b5 (it reminds me of the delayed Wing Gambit with 1.e4 c5 2.a3).  However I don't trust it except as a blitz weapon.
  
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Re: Any information about 1 c4 b5!?
Reply #3 - 06/22/09 at 11:03:51
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The move-order 1.c4 a6 2.Nc3 b5 3.cxb5 axb5 4.Nxb5 could give Black a shade more than the above: a Nb5 will later retreat to c3, while a Bb5 is more flexible. - If 2.a4, Black has 2...a5, while 2. e4 e5 might be an improved version of 1. e4 e6 2.c4 e5. In the case of 2.e3, Black has several good plans withouth b5 (gasp), e.g. 2...d5 3.cxd5 Nf6 4.e4 c6. So 2.Nc3 must be critical.
  
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Re: Any information about 1 c4 b5!?
Reply #2 - 06/22/09 at 09:53:11
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Sorry, I don't, but I was curious enough to check an online database.
1.c4 b5 2.cxb5 a6 3.e4 Bb7 4.Nc3 axb5 5.Bxb5 f5 (I can't imagine Black has enough after other moves either) and now Black didn't do so bad after 6.d3 and 6.Qb3, but 6.Nf3 fxe4 7.Ng5 Nf6 8.Qb3 looks like a disaster.
  
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