Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3 (Read 12578 times)
Flick Er12
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2
Joined: 09/10/09
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3
Reply #14 - 09/10/09 at 05:14:37
Post Tools
         Thanks for sharing your ideas in this discussion.,I am so glad.,



  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bibs
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 2342
Joined: 10/24/06
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3
Reply #13 - 07/06/09 at 00:44:23
Post Tools
Markovich wrote on 07/05/09 at 21:51:56:
Noteworthy is Sabas - Borovikov, 2000 which went 3.g3 d5 4.e5 Nc6 5.Bg2 Nge7 6.c3 b6 7.d4 Ba6 8.Qa4 Qc8.  The appearance of Black's bishop on a6 was quite embarrassing for White.  Black not surprisingly won.  To me, White's idea looks too artificial.


Indeed. Which is why white takes on d5 (4. ed5)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3
Reply #12 - 07/05/09 at 21:51:56
Post Tools
Noteworthy is Sabas - Borovikov, 2000 which went 3.g3 d5 4.e5 Nc6 5.Bg2 Nge7 6.c3 b6 7.d4 Ba6 8.Qa4 Qc8.  The appearance of Black's bishop on a6 was quite embarrassing for White.  Black not surprisingly won.  To me, White's idea looks too artificial.
« Last Edit: 07/05/09 at 23:57:44 by Markovich »  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10778
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3
Reply #11 - 07/04/09 at 05:11:11
Post Tools
Sorry, bad reading from my side - once again.

That Arencibia game seems like another typical case of "more games needed before we can draw any conclusion." But you seem to be right that 3.g3 is a full-fledged alternative for 3.d4. It's something practioners of 3.Bb5 should keep in mind.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fllg
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 647
Joined: 05/30/09
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3
Reply #10 - 07/03/09 at 14:45:50
Post Tools
I find your reply a bit puzzling since I wrote that White plays d4 here instead of d3.  Cheesy I see no point in playing 3.g3 if White transposes into a KIA with d3 anyway.

6.d3 doesn´t make sense to me here, but you may be right that after 6.d3 g6 a transposition to the usual stuff is likely though White may try to delay the development of his queensknight a bit.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10778
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3
Reply #9 - 07/02/09 at 20:25:28
Post Tools
But can't Black come very close to a transposition to that Ljubo-Kaspy game with 6.d3 g6 ? If yes Black's new problems are solved within less than 10 moves .....
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fllg
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 647
Joined: 05/30/09
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3
Reply #8 - 07/02/09 at 16:34:05
Post Tools
Hi MNB,

in this case White may still prefer to avoid d3 in favour of d4 with 5... d5 6.exd5 Nxd5 7.d4. Emms mentions the game Arencibia-Zapata, Santa Clara 1996 assessing it as slightly better for White after move 14 because of his more active pieces.

This g3-line can hardly lead to a serious advantage for White, but Black has to solve some new problems.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10778
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3
Reply #7 - 07/01/09 at 23:58:46
Post Tools
But Black can play such a cat and mouse game as well: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3 Nc6 4.Bg2 Nge7 5.0-0 and only now d5.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fllg
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 647
Joined: 05/30/09
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3
Reply #6 - 07/01/09 at 16:06:42
Post Tools
Well, one point of whites moveorder is to avoid the setup used by Kasparov since White is able to play d4 in one go. After 3.g3 Nc6 4.Bg2 g6?! 5.d4! Black has problems with his dark squares.

Emms considers a KIA as best only if Black plays Nc6/Nf6/d5 after 3.g3.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
zoo
Ex Member


Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3
Reply #5 - 07/01/09 at 06:57:19
Post Tools
Very informative post by Tracke, making it easy to see the point of 3...d5. Delchev & Semkov just mention that Black is ok after 3...d5 4.e5 Nc6 5.Bg2 and then either 5...g5, 5...f6 or 5...Qc7 followed by ...g5.

That Ljubo-Kasparov game is a real treat, a reminder of Kasparov's mightiness against unambitious play.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10778
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3
Reply #4 - 06/30/09 at 22:43:46
Post Tools
Make sure to study Ljubojevic-Kasparov, Niksic 1983. Since this game the KIA has disappeared on top level.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tracke
Senior Member
****
Offline


Introite tam etiam ibi
dei sunt

Posts: 467
Location: Kiel (GER)
Joined: 09/21/04
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3
Reply #3 - 06/30/09 at 14:23:17
Post Tools
3.g3 is a useful tool against 2...e6 if white wants to avoid open variations. 
For example because you prefer Bb5(+) systems against 2...d6 & 2...Nc6 
Other possibilities are 3.c4, 3.d3, 3.b3, 3.c3, 3.Qe2 etc. None of them can 
promise much (or even little) advantage but certainly they all have some bite. 
I play them all in an alternating way.

The most important idea behind 3.g3 is certainly to play an KIA setup 
with d2-d4 in one go (after Bg2/0-0/c3), then white might have += . 
This most often only works if black plays so slowly that white manages 
to protect pawn e4 with Re1 after Nf6. Or if white is ready to castle after 
...d5 ed5 ed5 without being disturbed by ...Qe7+ or ...Bb4+ . Therefor 
black should avoid too many waiting moves like ...Nc6, ...a6, ...Qc7, ...Be7 
etc. (what happens much often among weaker hedgehog devotees!)

Of couse there are many other motivs (depending of black´s answer):
- to transpose to real KIA lines with d2-d3 [as mentioned by zoo]
- to transpose to g3-systems of open sicilians with d2-d4
- to play (like Rozentalis) a kind of c3 sicilian with g3 inserted

White is very flexible in chosing a favourable line as long as black doesn´t 
challenge e4! Both 3...Nf6 4.e5! and 3...b6 4.d4! are no clear equalizers. That´s 
why 3...d5(!) is the critical and probably best answer (at least in my opinion).

After 3...d5 4.exd5 exd5! (4...Qxd5 5.Nc3 +=) White has four choices:
- 5.Qe2+ Be7 (misplacing the Q, unclear)
- 5.Bg2 Qe7+ 6.Qe2 Qxe2+ 7.Kxe2 (equal but somewhat dull)
- 5.Bg2 Qe7+ 6.Kf1 (sophisticated and unclear)
- 5.d4 (to answer ...Qe7+ with 6.Be3) Nc6 6.Bg2 Bg4 (unclear, might become
  more tactical - as seen in Car-Rad - than 3g3 players usually want to!)

Summarizing 3.g3 might be a sound and interesting sideline with some practical 
venom. In many lines white has a little edge and against 3...d5 at least a wide 
choice between different kinds of play. But to be honest, it doesn´t seem to 
promise anything against a well prepared black player. On the other side there´s 
not much theory and still much scope for home preparation and creativity.

There are not many theoretical sources. obviously only Emms´ article
"A Turbo-Charged King's Indian Attack" (22 pages, from white´s point of view) 
in Dangerous Weapons - Anti-Sicilians. And a short antidote (don´t know 
much about that) in "The Safest Sicilian" by Delchev/Semkov.

tracke  Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fllg
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 647
Joined: 05/30/09
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3
Reply #2 - 06/30/09 at 14:22:42
Post Tools
If you don´t have it already you should look out for a copy of the recent book "Dangerous Weapons: Anti-Sicilians". There you can find whole chapter about this rare line. Seemingly white does not have to follow the normal KIA and can sometimes play more agressively with a delayed d4 or c3 & d4.

It looks interesting and is surely worth trying.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
zoo
Ex Member


Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3
Reply #1 - 06/30/09 at 13:24:58
Post Tools
Basically, White hopes to play d3, Nbd2,e5 (the key move), then Qe2, 0-0, Re1 (to support e5 with help of Nf3), perhaps Bf4 and then the famous/automatic plan h4, Nd2-f1-h2, Ng5, Qh5. Meanwhile Black rushes all his Queenside pawns with typical structures like c5,b5-b4,a5-a4-a3,Ba6,Nb6, c4. Since Black will eventually break through in the Queenside, all White's hopes rely on his mating attack. Despite the slow opening there are very few draws in this variation, mostly by perpetual check.
If Black doesn't want to play ball, he just can play ...e6-e5, losing a tempo against the ideal ...e7-e5. But still this is ok for him (in fact this is why this set-up is played only after ...e6, as against ...e7-e5 it loses its teeth). Black then goes for standard anti-sicilan set-up with g6,Bg7,Nge7,00,d6,h6,Be6 aiming for ...Rb8/b5-b4, ...d5 or ...f5.  
This setup is known as King's Indian Attack (KIA) and mostly seen after the move-order 1.e4 e6 2.d3 d5 3.Nbd2 followed by g3,Bg2 etc. You may find more relevant games with this move order. A famous player with that system was Bobby Fischer, as well as Morozevich.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dragonman
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 8
Joined: 04/21/09
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3
06/30/09 at 08:50:03
Post Tools
Hello,

What do you think about this variant for white?after 3...d5 is sharp play(Carlsen-Radjabov), but it is good. What about 3...Nc6?what is plan for white?do you know any good games?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo