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Learning the Dragon / 5...g6 6. Be3 Nc6 7. f3 e5 (Read 5166 times)

belgian Full Member Offline Passionate about chess and poker... Posts: 129 Location: Toronto Joined: 05/14/07 Gender:	Re: Learning the Dragon / 5...g6 6. Be3 Nc6 7. f3 e5 Reply #7 - 11/13/09 at 21:28:10	Post Tools	Print Post
	BirdBrain wrote on 11/13/09 at 20:05:48: So I see - Qd2, 0-0-0, Kb1, and then g4! Of course, like I said, I also have seen Nd5 after Be6, with the aim of blockading the central pawn advance...but is that all that favorable for White? It doesn't seem that way to me... Either ought to be better for White. 7.-e5 is hardly ever played by "the big boys". Here's an idea... Take the Black side against your computer a few times and see how well/badly you fare. See what attacking plan the computer comes up with. When you're clear on the White side, switch colors and see how well you can execute the white plan against the computer. After a few iterations, you'll get the hang of the position and will be able to take advantage of any dragoneer foolish enough to play -e5 early in the opening. Pierre.


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kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4989 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: Learning the Dragon / 5...g6 6. Be3 Nc6 7. f3 e5 Reply #6 - 11/13/09 at 21:09:58	Post Tools	Print Post
	Offhand I would suspect that 9. Nd5 Bxd5 10. ed should compare favorably to 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cd 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e5 6. Ndb5 d6 7. Nd5 Nxd5 8. ed Nb8 (which is generally considered equal with best play).


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BirdBrain Full Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 168 Joined: 05/29/09	Re: Learning the Dragon / 5...g6 6. Be3 Nc6 7. f3 e5 Reply #5 - 11/13/09 at 20:05:48	Post Tools	Print Post
	kylemeister wrote on 11/12/09 at 22:39:51: That game is cited by ECO as clearly better for White after 12. g4, but I would think that Black should try 9...d5. Another high-level game (Socko-Sedlak, Euro team ch 2003) continued with the plausible 10. ed Nxd5 11. Nxd5 Qxd5 12. Qxd5 Bxd5 13. 0-0-0 0-0-0 14. c4 Be6 15. Rxd8+ Kxd8 16. Nc5, which looks as though it is probably slightly better for White; I would think that 9. Nd5 should be too. That was exactly what my computer played against me, was 9...d5. I guess I thought the position was a bit stagnant to my taste for White after ...e5, but then again, understanding the themes of an opening is important. So I see - Qd2, 0-0-0, Kb1, and then g4! Of course, like I said, I also have seen Nd5 after Be6, with the aim of blockading the central pawn advance...but is that all that favorable for White? It doesn't seem that way to me...


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kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4989 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: Learning the Dragon / 5...g6 6. Be3 Nc6 7. f3 e5 Reply #4 - 11/12/09 at 22:39:51	Post Tools	Print Post
	That game is cited by ECO as clearly better for White after 12. g4, but I would think that Black should try 9...d5. Another high-level game (Socko-Sedlak, Euro team ch 2003) continued with the plausible 10. ed Nxd5 11. Nxd5 Qxd5 12. Qxd5 Bxd5 13. 0-0-0 0-0-0 14. c4 Be6 15. Rxd8+ Kxd8 16. Nc5, which looks as though it is probably slightly better for White; I would think that 9. Nd5 should be too.


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belgian Full Member Offline Passionate about chess and poker... Posts: 129 Location: Toronto Joined: 05/14/07 Gender:	Re: Learning the Dragon / 5...g6 6. Be3 Nc6 7. f3 e5 Reply #3 - 11/12/09 at 22:17:11	Post Tools	Print Post
	BirdBrain wrote on 11/12/09 at 21:37:05: kylemeister wrote on 11/12/09 at 18:08:37: White's play is normal, and ...e5 is at best dubious. If you were playing these pieces, what would be your idea after ...e5 then? Would you play Qd2, 0-0-0 and go for g4? Yes. Here's a game between two strong players with this opening. Note that in the end Black lost the game after losing d6 which was weakened by -e5. [Event "Manila Interzonal"] [Site "Manila"] [Date "1990.06.??"] [Round "9"] [White "Dolmatov,Sergey"] [Black "Ljubojevic,Ljubomir"] [Result "1-0"] [Eco "B72"] 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Nc6 7.f3 e5 8.Nb3 Be6 9.Qd2 a6 10.0-0-0 Rc8 11.Kb1 Na5 12.g4 Nc4 13.Bxc4 Bxc4 14.Bh6 Bxh6 15.Qxh6 b5 16.Rd2 Rc6 17.h4 a5 18.Nc1 b4 19.Nd1 Ng8 20.Qe3 h5 21.g5 Ne7 22.f4 Qc7 23.Qf3 a4 24.Ne3 a3 25.b3 Bb5 26.Nd3 0-0 27.Rhd1 Bxd3 28.Rxd3 Rc8 29.R1d2 Rc3 30.Nc4 Rxd3 31.Rxd3 Qc5 32.Rxd6 exf4 33.Qxf4 Qg1+ 34.Qc1 Qh2 35.Qe1 Nc6 36.e5 Nxe5 37.Rd2 Nf3 38.Rxh2 Nxe1 39.Rf2 Rd8 40.Kc1 Rd4 41.Ne3 Rxh4 42.Rf1 Nxc2 43.Nxc2 Rg4 44.Kd2 Kg7 45.Ke3 Rg3+ 46.Kf2 Rxg5 47.Nxb4 Rc5 48.Nd3 Rc2+ 49.Ke3 Rxa2 50.b4 Rc2 51.Ra1 a2 52.b5 Rc8 53.Rxa2 Re8+ 54.Kf3 Rb8 55.Rb2 Kf6 56.Nc5 Ke7 57.Ke4 Kd6 58.Kd4 h4 59.Ne4+ Ke6 60.b6 Kf5 61.b7 Kg4 62.Ke3 f5 63.Nf2+ Kg3 64.Nh1+ Kg4 65.Nf2+ Kg3 66.Nh1+ Kg4 67.Rb4+ Kg5 68.Nf2 Kf6 69.Nd3 h3 70.Kf2 f4 71.Nc5 Kf5 72.Nd7 1-0


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BirdBrain Full Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 168 Joined: 05/29/09	Re: Learning the Dragon / 5...g6 6. Be3 Nc6 7. f3 e5 Reply #2 - 11/12/09 at 21:37:05	Post Tools	Print Post
	kylemeister wrote on 11/12/09 at 18:08:37: White's play is normal, and ...e5 is at best dubious. I think that a book which might be good for you is Michael Basman's "Chess Openings." If you were playing these pieces, what would be your idea after ...e5 then? Would you play Qd2, 0-0-0 and go for g4?


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kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4989 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: Learning the Dragon / 5...g6 6. Be3 Nc6 7. f3 e5 Reply #1 - 11/12/09 at 18:08:37	Post Tools	Print Post
	White's play is normal, and ...e5 is at best dubious. I think that a book which might be good for you is Michael Basman's "Chess Openings."
	« Last Edit: 11/12/09 at 20:54:09 by kylemeister »

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BirdBrain Full Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 168 Joined: 05/29/09	Learning the Dragon / 5...g6 6. Be3 Nc6 7. f3 e5 11/12/09 at 17:52:50	Post Tools	Print Post
	Okay, I admit. I am new to the Dragon...from either side. So maybe this post will help others who are adventuring in early waters. Ultimately, this question is good also for someone who is asking themselves, "Is swimming in Open Sicilian waters a good idea?" So I played into this position - 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd 4. Nxd Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 and obviously, I am entering Dragon territory. I know one plan often used is Be3 in conjunction with Qd2. Please don't laugh that I don't know much about all the plans, but I am sincerly looking for something that appeals to me in these positions. So I continue with 6. Be3 and he plays ...Nc6 instead of ...Bg7, which I expected! So no big deal...I want to venture into the structure that I believe was recommended for White, and so I play 7.f3 getting ready to continue with Qd2 and 0-0-0. But then I see 7...e5. This looks annoying to me. Sure, the Dragon bishop is blocked behind the pawn, but I don't know if I care too much for White's position. So my question is this...is White's move order a good choice, or is there something more juicy that I can get my hands upon instead of 6. Be3 or 7. f3? And if this is a good idea for White, can anyone recommend a good idea to pursue. Obviously, Nb3 is in the mix, but then what?


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