Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3 (Read 16616 times)
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #25 - 03/21/10 at 21:48:00
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There is life in outer space...
Check this to get some intersting information on the pros and cons of 1.a3:

http://sverreschesscorner.blogspot.com/search/label/1.a3

After all with White all moves are playable
Cool

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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #24 - 03/18/10 at 23:10:49
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1.Nc3 is a great weapon, but only if you are willing to embrace theory! The best 1.Nc3 players use it to switch to advantageous forms of the Caro-Kann, French, and Sicilian (and even the Scandinavian).  They are also very well prepared in the the Scotch.

So, 1.Nc3 deserves respect, but don't choose it to avoid theory.

My recommendation for avoiding theory is to choose a line that's about 3 moves deep and deviate there, not on move one.  All of the options on move one have been thoroughly researched and either found lacking or have "theory".
  
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #23 - 03/18/10 at 21:13:09
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If you're just looking to avoid theory, play something sound, but uncommon on the first move, like f4 or Nc3.
  

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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #22 - 03/18/10 at 20:26:59
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KoKko wrote on 02/19/10 at 22:55:15:
It's definitely clear to me that no matter what opening you choose to play, your opponent with perfect play always finds a way to equalize.

I'm Elo FIDE around 1800; have tried with both e4 d4 c4, and my official score reads 52% as white and 57% as black!
So, I asked myself, why should I go on seeking for advantage as white when it comes out I play better as black.

I answered myself unless you know theory 100% it's a lot easier to play on black/passive side, I do mean easier to defend versus attacking.

It came to my help on my database... I glanced thoughtfully at 2 "little moves": a3 and h3
What if I pretend to play black lines (as white) with a little "plus" as a small advance of a side pawn?

Gosh, after some practice at blitz games I find out they do work! Ever better than some strong black lines i.e. Italian game.

Now it's time to try in real tournaments, I look forward to read some other comments...


Just for the record. A few days ago Magnus Carlsen gave 1.a3 a go. Okay it was blindfold but nevertheless...

Carlsen,M (2813) - Ivanchuk,V (2748) [A00]
19th Amber Blindfold Nice FRA (1), 13.03.2010
1.a3 Nf6 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 d5 4.e3 Bg4 5.h3 Bh5 6.cxd5 cxd5 7.Nc3 Nc6 8.Bb5 Rc8 9.g4 Bg6 10.Qa4 Nd7 11.b4 e6 12.Bb2 Be7 13.Bxc6 bxc6 14.Qxa7 c5 15.Qa6 0-0 16.Qe2 c4 17.e4 d4 18.Nb5 e5 19.h4 Qb6 20.a4 Qb7 21.Ng5 h6 22.h5 hxg5 23.hxg6 fxg6 24.f3 Bxb4 25.Ba3 Bxa3 26.Rxa3 Qb6 27.Qh2 Qc5 28.Qh7+ Kf7 29.Ra1 Nf6 30.Qh2 Ra8
White is already losing, but it is an instant termination after a typical blindfold oversight: 31.d3? Qxb5! 0-1.

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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #21 - 02/24/10 at 02:49:44
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KoKko wrote on 02/23/10 at 13:35:19:
Damn, I need something different, something more extreme.
Black has to get full freedom of action, he can do as much as he wants, then I can follow his plans and then I strike him when the opportunity comes...when I play Black I'm strong as iron


Then the Rini Kuijf Opening definitely is for you. As he pointed out any early pawn move gives away information, so play 1.Nc3 ...(anything but b5) 2.Nb1. As the Dutch master himself formulated: White keeps on benefiting from pawn moves he has not played yet.
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #20 - 02/23/10 at 20:33:10
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KoKko wrote on 02/23/10 at 13:35:19:
I thought to be the only nuts here, but I'm damn wrong!

I think a3 and h3 can be played only by people, who like me, need the girls to be aquainted by a friend, because I get scared to say "hello".
What a rotten pussy am I...

Yes, I tried several other stuff..."waiting useful" moves like c4, but then you still give your opponent informations...he knows he can only share the center say with 1...e5 or 1...c5 or simply he can copy my moves c5, Nf6, Nc6...don't you guys hate to be followed closely when driving on the road?

Damn, I need something different, something more extreme.
Black has to get full freedom of action, he can do as much as he wants, then I can follow his plans and then I strike him when the opportunity comes...when I play Black I'm strong as iron and sooner or later a3 or h3 should come also useful!

You mean 1...g6 is strong, let's just treat it as a rev.Benko: 1.a3...g6, 2. e4 Bg7, 3. Nf3 ...c5, 4.Nc3/Bc4 I play a sort of reversed-reversed (double reversed) English Sicilian with a tempo up.
Crossing fingers...

Yes I tried e3 too, but it transposes too often. 1.e3 ...c5, 2. what? c4 gets into english symmetrical, whilst d4 gets into queen's opening, quiet lines. Or 1.e3...e5 and I get a French exchange.
1.Na3 is awful: 1...e5! 2.e4 ... Bxa3! I now got 2 camels on the a file soon they become meat for Black, moreover I gave up a knight, I do like knights.
1.g4? 1...d5 and game over.
1. b4 !? could be interesting as it denies 1...c5 the classical Black push, but engines drop it to -0.25...


Perhaps you are looking for something radical, like 1.e4 any move except 1...g6, 1...Nf6 and 1...d5 2.Qh5? 

Against 1...g6, White should play 2.Qe2 Bg7 3.h4, after 1...Nf6, 2.e5 Nd5 3.Qh5, and 1...d5 2.ed5 Qd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 (other moves 4.Qh5) 4.b4 Qb4 5.Qh5. 

Also, you forgot to reveal your revolutionary analyses on 1.d4, 1.e4 and 1.Nf3. I'm interested to see why 1.d4 is such a terrible positional concession, since exploiting the chronically weak e4-square isn't as easy as I thought.
  

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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #19 - 02/23/10 at 15:21:30
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KoKko wrote on 02/19/10 at 22:55:15:

I answered myself unless you know theory 100% it's a lot easier to play on black/passive side, I do mean easier to defend versus attacking.

BPaulsen wrote on 02/19/10 at 22:59:24:

If you're scoring that much higher with black it's probably a good sign that your ability to play with the initiative needs work.

My advice: go the other extreme. Develop a highly aggressive gambit repertoire with White. Promise yourself to play it for a year. This what I did myself a long time ago, it is extremely liberating. Don't worry about being a pawn down, concentrate on development, open lines, attack, activity, threats... Even if your opponent defends well, you can usually convert the initiative to a drawn endgame (which is educational in itself). The point is to learn to play with the initiative. Perhaps you will drop in rating during that period. But perhaps you will be pleasantly surprised.
  
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #18 - 02/23/10 at 14:38:02
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I think that to play such moves with some succes you have to be very aware of transpositions to good lines for white (= knowing theory). To me this is the only way you can get anything out them: transpone into lines where a a3 or h3 is a usefull move. This implies some cooperation of your opponent. 

On the whole, if black keeps it "real", 1. a3 and 1.h3 just seem useless.
  
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #17 - 02/23/10 at 13:53:28
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KoKko wrote on 02/23/10 at 13:35:19:
I thought to be the only nuts here, but I'm damn wrong!

I think a3 and h3 can be played only by people, who like me, need the girls to be aquainted by a friend, because I get scared to say "hello".
What a rotten pussy am I...

Yes, I tried several other stuff..."waiting useful" moves like c4, but then you still give your opponent informations...he knows he can only share the center say with 1...e5 or 1...c5 or simply he can copy my moves c5, Nf6, Nc6...don't you guys hate to be followed closely when driving on the road?

Damn, I need something different, something more extreme.
Black has to get full freedom of action, he can do as much as he wants, then I can follow his plans and then I strike him when the opportunity comes...when I play Black I'm strong as iron and sooner or later a3 or h3 should come also useful!

You mean 1...g6 is strong, let's just treat it as a rev.Benko: 1.a3...g6, 2. e4 Bg7, 3. Nf3 ...c5, 4.Nc3/Bc4 I play a sort of reversed-reversed (double reversed) English Sicilian with a tempo up.
Crossing fingers...

Yes I tried e3 too, but it transposes too often. 1.e3 ...c5, 2. what? c4 gets into english symmetrical, whilst d4 gets into queen's opening, quiet lines. Or 1.e3...e5 and I get a French exchange.
1.Na3 is awful: 1...e5! 2.e4 ... Bxa3! I now got 2 camels on the a file soon they become meat for Black, moreover I gave up a knight, I do like knights.
1.g4? 1...d5 and game over.
1. b4 !? could be interesting as it denies 1...c5 the classical Black push, but engines drop it to -0.25...


Post of the year. Already. For so many reasons.
  
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #16 - 02/23/10 at 13:35:19
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I thought to be the only nuts here, but I'm damn wrong!

I think a3 and h3 can be played only by people, who like me, need the girls to be aquainted by a friend, because I get scared to say "hello".
What a rotten pussy am I...

Yes, I tried several other stuff..."waiting useful" moves like c4, but then you still give your opponent informations...he knows he can only share the center say with 1...e5 or 1...c5 or simply he can copy my moves c5, Nf6, Nc6...don't you guys hate to be followed closely when driving on the road?

Damn, I need something different, something more extreme.
Black has to get full freedom of action, he can do as much as he wants, then I can follow his plans and then I strike him when the opportunity comes...when I play Black I'm strong as iron and sooner or later a3 or h3 should come also useful!

You mean 1...g6 is strong, let's just treat it as a rev.Benko: 1.a3...g6, 2. e4 Bg7, 3. Nf3 ...c5, 4.Nc3/Bc4 I play a sort of reversed-reversed (double reversed) English Sicilian with a tempo up.
Crossing fingers...

Yes I tried e3 too, but it transposes too often. 1.e3 ...c5, 2. what? c4 gets into english symmetrical, whilst d4 gets into queen's opening, quiet lines. Or 1.e3...e5 and I get a French exchange.
1.Na3 is awful: 1...e5! 2.e4 ... Bxa3! I now got 2 camels on the a file soon they become meat for Black, moreover I gave up a knight, I do like knights.
1.g4? 1...d5 and game over.
1. b4 !? could be interesting as it denies 1...c5 the classical Black push, but engines drop it to -0.25...
  
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #15 - 02/22/10 at 20:05:33
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Bibs wrote on 02/22/10 at 07:35:39:
Don't get this at all.

It's like your bus arrives. 
But you decide, 'Nah, don't think so. I'll get the next one instead'.


Hm, take a look at that impressive (to my - weird? - mind) Karpov - Illescas-game I posted in the thread "Tarrasch with black and white" in the 1.d4 d5-section. There you can see how a sophisticated waiting policy unfolds. Karpov played a2-a3 - only superficially a no-move. Now it was black to move. Illescas used it with Be7-f8, which slightly weakens the command on f6 and so at the end Qd8-d7 wasn't possible.
You may laugh on this reflections and call it overstretched. But make up your mind a bit. 
I have the feeling, that if you would not conceed slight or severe tactical mistakes in a game against Karpov (I don't know how strong you are - I quite surely would lose that simple way), that would be the way he walks to outplay you. I believe, these are the sublte reasons, why a position slides in the orcus.
So, to use your metaphore, it is not like taking this bus or the next, because these busses allways take the same routes. It's much more of choosing between own feet, bicycle, motorcycle, car, bus, train, ballon, propeller plane, jet, jumbo or even a bungy-rope - depending on the traffic situatiation and how the street is built and how the wheather is etc and with you in the driver's seat... and sometimes it's like the Chinese saying: If you are in a hurry, take the detour...

TN wrote on 02/22/10 at 04:40:28:
I've been doing some opening study lately, and I came to the conclusion that 1.d4 is clearly the best move because White can now play the Semi-Slav with an extra tempo. This gives White a strong initiative, even if Black doesn't play ...d5. The Semi-Slav is completely equal as Black, so the extra tempo has to give White an advantage.


Studies allways help. And so I'm not surprised that you uncovered the chess solution: That's why the Colle-Koltanovski-Opening dominates the international scene. It crashes through what ever black does - e3-e4xd5 - Bxh7+ - win.
To save our beloved game, we in the woods secretly founded the "rimsters connection (copyright)". Deliberately we assault the basics with the rimster moves a2-a3 or h2-h3. Doing so we generously give the first move to black who now can try to win with a reversed Colle - what a feeling. But we do so only to show the white's lead in development will be decisive anyway. 
For the adventurous players we have the more active h2-h4 in the pipeline or the restraining a2-a4 Grin

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 02/22/10 at 14:02:06:
Wasn't the original premise of this post that 1.a3 and 1.h3 avoid theory?

So, playing theory-heavy positions such as the Chebanenko as Black seems counterproductive to the argument.

 
I don't feel, that's the right way to sum it up. To avoid theory does not mean to throw away all the knowledge about the center an development etc. As once for Réti and Nimzovich it is infact the unchangeable core of the game. To avoid all theory would really mean to pass over all knowledge, to make your living only on the edge. Simply impossible, as a knight on the rim only commands two to four squares in comparison with eight in or near the center, likewise it is with the queen, the bishop and normall the rook too to some extend (okay, on an cleared board he commands fourteen sqaures from ervery position on the board).

So again it is a game of information - to me it is quite impressive that KID is nearly in a better shape than the KIA which should be up due to the extra move. But in reality you may find variations, where black is better preparded due being a move down. You can find it in one of my earlier posts.

Not to be misunderstood. I don't call 1.h3 to be ready to achive an oscar. It does nearly nothing for white, as it commands only one new square. There is no move with a lesser result. So it by far can't stand the richness of 1.e4 (comanding at once 10 new squares - as does 1.e3...) or 1.d4 (9). But as posted there are some meager effects to the good anyhow. And the more you push against it with black the more you risk to rush over the edge. Quite normal chess.
White is not obliqued to play the pawns in the center. As Réti wasn't (but his 1.Nf3 at least touches four new squares) any other is, but he is even allowed to push his rimsters. 

And then he can try to swing back in black's openings, after browsing through the heavy theory (as you called it), and there use the extra move. Don't forget, that black quite regularlly survives even the heaviest opening blows 1.e4 or 1.d4.
Theoretically 1.h3 doesn't work in the sense of winning, I think (1.d5!), but neither does it loose. But a substantially stronger player would win a match against a weaker because he has a better feeling for the pros and cons of the moves. That's what I learn from playing with my chess pupils - I allways loose Grin

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 02/22/10 at 14:02:06:

Even 1.Na3 is better than 1.a3 or 1.h3, but why not just 1.c3 or 1.e3?


1.e3 is absolutely okay - see above, 1.c3 too but theoretically to a lesser degree. With 1.Na3 you again touch the "Reflex-Theorem". What to do after 1...e5? Is 2...Bxa3 a threat? Damages the white structure but conceeds the bishops. But black has the opportunity, to play for a closed position to tame the bishops and give a friendly environment for the knights. Possible? Don't know. Does white have to play 2.b3 or, with Alekhine in mind, 2.Nc4?
But take that idea with black. I once played 1.d4 Na6 2.e4 c6. I think, it's called De Bruyckers Opening. Now 3.Bxa6 will not damage black's structure cause there is 3...Qa5+ possible after d2-d4 has weakened the a5-e1-diagonal. 4.Nc3  Qxa6 Nevertheless white can play this, the queen isn't too pretty on a6. But perhaps 4.c3 is better?! (fluid pawns)
This again shows what I mean. It's all about the informations. So 1.c3 e5 2.g3 d5 and only now 3.Na3
But you may laugh on me, I think in the black version the second player can better accomodate to that as white in the reverse version because white has yet shown more informations (g2-g3 was played)...

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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #14 - 02/22/10 at 15:10:05
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Yeah, I originally acknowledged TN's facetiousness, but then I looked at some of the other comments and realised not everyone seems to get that and deleted my comment (before posting it).



As an aside, 

When was the last time a strong player suggested that Black was the passive side, as the OP suggests?  Even as far back as Nimzovich, passive play was known to be bad play, regardless of color.
  
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #13 - 02/22/10 at 14:28:26
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SF, TN may well have been 'joking'.
That said, with chess players, on a chess forum, it is not always easy to tell. Ho hum.
  
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #12 - 02/22/10 at 14:02:06
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Wasn't the original premise of this post that 1.a3 and 1.h3 avoid theory?

So, playing theory-heavy positions such as the Chebanenko as Black seems counterproductive to the argument.   

Anyway, even though there are some fairly strong players who trot this out occasionally doesn't make it objectively good or appealing to me.   

There are better ways to play as White if you want to avoid theory.  Even 1.Na3 is better than 1.a3 or 1.h3, but why not just 1.c3 or 1.e3?
  
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #11 - 02/22/10 at 07:35:39
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Don't get this at all.

It's like your bus arrives. 
But you decide, 'Nah, don't think so. I'll get the next one instead'.
  
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #10 - 02/22/10 at 04:40:28
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I've been doing some opening study lately, and I came to the conclusion that 1.d4 is clearly the best move because White can now play the Semi-Slav with an extra tempo. This gives White a strong initiative, even if Black doesn't play ...d5. The Semi-Slav is completely equal as Black, so the extra tempo has to give White an advantage. 

Oh, and I always use 1.d4 d5 2.a3 to play the Chebanenko Slav as White, since the extra tempo renders all the main lines with reversed colours bad for Black. '

PS:

@Bibs

I agree.
« Last Edit: 02/22/10 at 10:03:06 by TN »  

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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #9 - 02/22/10 at 04:24:52
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KoKko wrote on 02/21/10 at 10:10:49:
For the sake of statistic Rybka shows about +0.04 for a3 (critical lines...a3 e5 c4 Nf6 Nc6 ...


With 1.a3 you may lure the machines in some open variations of the sicilian, where the move a2-a3 is plausible. But always remember that the sicilian is a typical counter opening.
I was quite impressed when I once read about the “Reflex-Theorem”, a term invented by Rainer Schlenker, a German off-beat-guru (once publisher of the mag-/fan-zine “Randspinger”). I found an explanation in Keilhack’s “Die Tarrasch-Verteidigung”, only available in German - Uuh oh (you know what I mean if you are familiar with the discussion right now taking place in the 1.d4 d5-forum on Tarrasch as black and white).

That “Reflex-Theorem” resembles me to the martial art aikido where you use the power your opponent exerts to defeat him.
In chess that means: Every move you make has pros and cons (e.g. g2-g4 may attack but at the same time it weakens king’s side). So with every move you give informations to your opponent, you show your active ideas and you concede slight weaknesses (you may not feel at that time!).

But strong players can base their whole game on the cons. I think Petrosian played like this. With prophylaxis he tried to nip any attacking ideas of the opponent in the bud, and then he shifted his attentions to the weaknesses left behind...

Coming back to 1.a3 e5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 (which in fact is a position known to theory by an other move order) and now say 3...d5 4.cxd5 4.Nxd5 we have reached a sicilian reversed with extra a2-a3. Wow! Wow? An aware player on black’s side knows what this means: Things to come like b2-b4. A ...0-0-0 would be very dangerous up to selfmurder. You gave him these informations right in the first move. So he will play patiently castling short, being aware of attacks on e5 with b4-b5 thus perhaps playing f7-f6 and so on. In the sicilian you need an opponent who overextends. With a tempo down simply the lack of free time makes this less likely. So you lack possibilities to use the "Reflex-Theorem" regarding his overextentions. 

But of course you can still play on for a win. I was totally stunned by the game Fischer - Andersson, Siegen 1970 (not at the olympiad but at an exibition), where the future WC scored a wonderful win.  No, Fischer didn’t play 1.a3, he was a bit more to the right, it was 1.b3... and only 4.a3

My experience is that humans behave quite differently when playing white or black. As black they play much more careful as with the white pieces. It is interesting how rarely especially in the lower to middle ranks a player with black takes the whole center, when he is allowed to do.  TN exactly highlighted this when he asked what you would do after 1.a3 g6.

Yes once and a while there are players who take the center with e5 and d5. More often they play some sort of slav or Tarrasch set-up, that is pawns on d5 and e6 combined with c6 or c5. As said, playing with black is much of psychology. With black you draw (hey, I was a tempo down...), with white you win (hey, I am a tempo up). So they are (too) careful, play modestly and your extra tempo may evaporate (which is not a total breakdown - just wait for the zeitnot and see...).


KoKko wrote on 02/21/10 at 10:10:49:
...and 0.00 for h3 (critical lines h3 e5 e3 d5 d4 Nc3 and h3 d5 d4 c5 e3).


Despite the above I continue to be somehow “infected” with 1.h3. But frankly said I wouldn’t play the exact continuation your engine gives as critical, cause I think it isn't. 1.h3 e5 2.e3 d5 3.d4 is a reversed french. And I feel white has yet given quite useful informations to black (Reflex-Theorem!). With 3...e4 it is an advance variation. You can proceed in normal manner (c2-c4 etc.) but you will have problems to nibble e4 with f2-f3 (which in the normal advance variation is on the schedule in some lines) due to the weakened h4-e1-diagonal - you gave the first part of this information right in your first move! 1.h3 weakened your control over g3 a bit. 
Besides black could also play 3...exd4 4.exd4 thus transposing into a french exchange variation with the unusual move 4.h3. 

But I think you can choose many other approaches - nearly all open or semi open openings at hand in a reversed form. 1.h3 e5 and now:

2.c3 (Caro-Kann, there the move h7-h6 is often useful)
2.d4 (scandinavian, there black’s queen’s bishop often needs a refuge on h7)  
2.e4 (all sorts of open games, and h3 stops the possible pin Bc8-g4)
2.c4 (all sorts of sicilian, h3 might be useful in quite some of the variations)  
2.Nc3 (Nimzovich, in variations comparable to ...d5, e5 Bf5 you have a refuge for the bishop; in variations comparable to ...e5 the pin Bg4 is prevented)
2.Nf3 (Alekhine, h3 stops Bg4)
2.d3 (Pirc, hm, at least h3 stops reversed Bg5 variations, but on the other hand it gives rise to a reversed 150-attack...)
2.b3 (well... perhaps hippopotamus)
2.g3 (well... perhaps hippopotamus)
2.a3 (Aaaah... yes, Basman live)

An equivalent list can be made for 1.h3 d5 or 1.h3 Nf6. But the more we move towards a noncomitting way of play by black (regarding the center and the resulting levers etc.) the more it is just muddy waters. Again 1...g6 may be a very good try against 1.h3 - you just spoiled a tempo if you want to lever the future fortress of black’s king with the h-pawn. On the other hand you’re right in the tracks for g2-g4... Oh, my dear...

One way or another, your opponent knows that you have played h2-h3. He will not give you all the cake... Reflexem-Theorem!

cheese
  

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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #8 - 02/21/10 at 19:00:40
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KoKko wrote on 02/19/10 at 22:55:15:

I'm Elo FIDE around 1800; have tried with both e4 d4 c4, and my official score reads 52% as white and 57% as black!


If you play 1.e4, 1.d4 and 1.c4, it seems to me that you play so many openings as white that you don't know them well... and perhaps know your openings better as black.
  
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #7 - 02/21/10 at 18:10:05
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So what are the critical lines after 1. e4 and 1. d4 according to Rybka (after a week, or perhaps after months as in the earlier 1. c4-versus-1. Nf3 analysis), and what fraction of a pawn is White up in each case?  Enquiring minds need to know!

It might be mentioned that "regular" opening books sometimes mention 1. a3 (sometimes called "Anderssen's Opening"; he played it a few times against Morphy).  Incidentally ECO did give 1...g6 in reply to it.
  
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #6 - 02/21/10 at 11:41:44
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I've never really understood the logic of moves such as 1.a3 and 1.h3. If you don't like playing with the White pieces, then sort out the problem instead of avoiding it with junky openings. 

Can't stand white pieces? I suggest buying a red and black set - that way you don't waste a tempo, and the colour red will stimulate your brain cells while thinking. 

A better approach to playing Black with White pieces is to play your Black repertoire with a useful extra move, compared to a useless extra tempo. For example, if you play the King's Indian and Pirc, play the King's Indian Attack. I still recommend you learn proper openings, since the KIA just won't cut it as your main opening as White.
Quote:

I answered myself unless you know theory 100% it's a lot easier to play on black/passive side, I do mean easier to defend versus attacking.


Then play positional openings such as the Ruy Lopez Exchange, Fianchetto King's Indian and Catalan. Then you will be able to play with positional, restrained aggression without feeling a 'jinx' towards playing actively. 

Quote:
Anyway yesterday at the club I easily beaten some unaware opponents, in one game I even won early his queen thanks to b4 push in a Queen's gambit 


I'm assuming none of your opponents played 1.a3 g6, after which White's first move looks a bit silly, especially if Black plays for an ...e5 break.
  

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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #5 - 02/21/10 at 10:10:49
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Against KID players I just pretend to play black and patiently wait for thier plans to show...maybe trying to transpose into some english lines.
1.a3 Nf6 2. Nf3!? g6 3. g3 (or c4 followed by Nc3)

I analyzed some positions with engines, and it seems a3 and h3 have the same "strenght"  Huh maybe a3 is more balanced against all lines, h3 is likely to be more effective in positional games (d4/Nf3 lines); its only drawback... it can't avoid reversed Ruy Lopez.

For the sake of statistic Rybka shows about +0.04 for a3 (critical lines...a3 e5 c4 Nf6 Nc6 and a3 d5 d4 Nf6 Nf3 e6 Bf4), and 0.00 for h3 (critical lines h3 e5 e3 d5 d4 Nc3 and h3 d5 d4 c5 e3).
One week analysis.

Anyway yesterday at the club I easily beaten some unaware opponents, in one game I even won early his queen thanks to b4 push in a Queen's gambit  Grin

Maybe you guys are right, I got to just paint black my white pieces Smiley
  
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #4 - 02/21/10 at 00:39:42
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Quote:
I had a 2300ish team-mate called Xavier Delebarre who always opened 1.h3 with White. Perhaps you can check his games in a database? he is very experienced as a player, knows classical theory pretty well and worked hard to send opponents into foreign territory (with good success except against semi-slav iirc).
As for 1.a3,  you may end up a full tempo down in most KID lines, so perhaps you can show a little flexibility and play 1.h3 against KIDsters?
These little tricks are more likely to bamboozle an e4 player relying on "book theory", while a d4 player doesn't care which side of the position is equal. 


Yes... I reflected some time on 1.h3. It is perhaps a bit better than 1.a3. The queen's side is more volatile than the king's side. So there 1.a3 may be a loss of time. 
But,yes, 1.h3 can quite often be used to a good effect if the opening is handled in the direct reversed way. E.g. in the Ruy-Lopez Black often plays h7-h6...
There are interesting move ordering themes. Take Stefan Bücker's sicilian idea 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 h6 and reverse it: 1.h3 (just there) e5 2.c4 and you are a tempo up, but will it be good for something?! Btw. in 1.a3 e5 2.c4 the wing's pawn move is perhaps even more useful...
1.h3 against KIDsters... Dont't know. You have to deal with the potential weakness h3. But yes, there are variations, where black deliberately plays h7-h6 even in mainlines, Kasparov and Nunn both did it, as far as I remember.
1.h3 has some interesting potential, your team-mate Xavier Delebarre seems to be a creative guy.
cheese
  

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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #3 - 02/20/10 at 17:17:59
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I had a 2300ish team-mate called Xavier Delebarre who always opened 1.h3 with White. Perhaps you can check his games in a database? he is very experienced as a player, knows classical theory pretty well and worked hard to send opponents into foreign territory (with good success except against semi-slav iirc).
As for 1.a3,  you may end up a full tempo down in most KID lines, so perhaps you can show a little flexibility and play 1.h3 against KIDsters?
These little tricks are more likely to bamboozle an e4 player relying on "book theory", while a d4 player doesn't care which side of the position is equal. 
  
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #2 - 02/20/10 at 01:59:14
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KoKko wrote on 02/19/10 at 22:55:15:
It's definitely clear to me that no matter what opening you choose to play, your opponent with perfect play always finds a way to equalize.

I'm Elo FIDE around 1800; have tried with both e4 d4 c4, and my official score reads 52% as white and 57% as black!
So, I asked myself, why should I go on seeking for advantage as white when it comes out I play better as black.

I answered myself unless you know theory 100% it's a lot easier to play on black/passive side, I do mean easier to defend versus attacking.

It came to my help on my database... I glanced thoughtfully at 2 "little moves": a3 and h3
What if I pretend to play black lines (as white) with a little "plus" as a small advance of a side pawn?

Gosh, after some practice at blitz games I find out they do work! Ever better than some strong black lines i.e. Italian game.

Now it's time to try in real tournaments, I look forward to read some other comments...


I played 1.a3 two times in correspondence chess and won both, with some luck (but that's normal). The reason I choose it was the same KoKko has given. 
But it is by no means easy to achive anything real; a3 (or h3) is nearly like passing. Imagine you play a King's Indian now colours revers, say the Petrosian Variation. 1.a3 d5 2.Nf3 c5 3.g3 Nc6 4.Bg2 e5 5.d3 Nf6 6.0-0 Be7 7.e4 d4. Now in the normal KID a7-a5 is often a way to secure c5 for a knight and disturb White's ambitions on that side. In our colours revers position (a2-)a3-a4 simply evaporates the first move. You could have played e2-e3 with the idea of a later e3-e4 as well with the same result.

If it is just to get rid oft the plague of the first move you should really play d2-d3 or e2-e3, both don't weaken the sides. Take again the KID: There are some interesting variations for Black where he plays Nb8-a6. Colours revers and with the first move a3 those variations wouldn't be playable. And if you start with h2-h3 your king's side would be a little more vulnerable. 

On the other hand you may at least search for a slight plus that may be found in a2-a3 or h2-h3. But if Black is aware of what you are looking for then he is well forarmed. To take it with a joke: You can't expect a Ruy Lopez colours revers after 1.a3 e5 2.e4 Nf6 3.Nc3 as 3...Bb4?? would lead to a very special sort of exchange-variation. Grin Or take the queen's gambit accepted. No black player with some strength would give you the opportunity to swing into a variation where the move a2-a3 is useful (a7-a6 is in fact useful im many QGA-variations). I think they wouldn't play 1.a3 d5 2.d4 c5? at all.

I don't think that a3 in itself bears to much sting. The only one is that it covers b4 perhaps preparing b2-b4. But that is too obvious. So if there is any use in such little moves then you should wait with them til that very moment comes. They can crop out on a later stage of the opening to (more?!) effect. But frankly said I haven't heard that e.g. the critical lines of the KIA are bolstered by a2-a3 or h2-h3. Yes, White plays a2-a3 in some lines there - but without much benefit.

Read Rowson's "Chess for Zebras - Thinking differently about Black and White" or what Watson has written on the openings with colours revers.

Perhaps BPaulsen is right and you have to work on your play with the intiative. But if you are happy with the passive side and thus paint your white pieces in black... 
Well, then I don't think that you will achive the ratio of 57% that you have with black. Because your opponents really play the black pieces and they will be more careful and will not overestimate their potential in the same way as they perhaps would do with the white pieces... It's psychology (and that begins with that fact that the white king is to the right but the black to the left Undecided)...

cheese
« Last Edit: 02/20/10 at 15:21:11 by motörhead »  

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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #1 - 02/19/10 at 22:59:24
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Realistically if one just wants to play chess then 1. a3 followed by treating the game like you're black isn't a bad thing.

That said, I'd rather try to put pressure on black. If you're scoring that much higher with black it's probably a good sign that your ability to play with the initiative needs work.
  

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a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
02/19/10 at 22:55:15
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It's definitely clear to me that no matter what opening you choose to play, your opponent with perfect play always finds a way to equalize.

I'm Elo FIDE around 1800; have tried with both e4 d4 c4, and my official score reads 52% as white and 57% as black!
So, I asked myself, why should I go on seeking for advantage as white when it comes out I play better as black.

I answered myself unless you know theory 100% it's a lot easier to play on black/passive side, I do mean easier to defend versus attacking.

It came to my help on my database... I glanced thoughtfully at 2 "little moves": a3 and h3
What if I pretend to play black lines (as white) with a little "plus" as a small advance of a side pawn?

Gosh, after some practice at blitz games I find out they do work! Ever better than some strong black lines i.e. Italian game.

Now it's time to try in real tournaments, I look forward to read some other comments...
  
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