'Ferocious' is a tad extreme as titles go for chess books. Considering the suggested content, perhaps 'flaccid' may be more suitable.

GMEricPrie, I don't see how 2 Bf4 has been revived. For example, here are some 1...d5 lines:

1 d4 d5 2 Bf4 Nf6 3 e3 c5 4 c3 Qb6 5 Qb3 c4 6 Qc2 g6! is =. If 7 f3!?, Win with the London System's recommendation, then 7...Bg7 or 7...Nc6, which is not mentioned in the book, is at least = for Black. Several other moves may be ok too.  

1 d4 d5 2 Bf4 Nf6 3 e3 c5 4 c3 Nc6 5 Nd2 Bf5 6 Ngf3 e6 7 Be2 h6 is =. 

1 d4 d5 2 Bf4 Bf5 3 c4 e6 4 Nc3 Bd6 5 Bxd6 Qxd6 6 cxd5 exd5 7 e3 Nf6 8 Bd3 Bxd3 9 Qxd3 is =.

GMEricPrie wrote on 09/22/10 at 10:31:34:


Ah, I wasn't aware of the fact that you believe that 3.Nbd2 is the best move for white!
I have to take a look at Meier-Cherniaev.

If it is the strongest move, I am sure we will see more of it in the future.
If not, well, I am still not sure what to make of it...at the first look it looks so harmless...

That's interesting Eric, where exactly do I find it?

tafl wrote on 09/22/10 at 09:04:40:


Yes, you are certainly right.

But nonetheless, after 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nc6 almost nobody is playing 3. Nbd2.
And even after 3. e3, what maybe you could think of as an improved version of 3.Nbd2, black is doing ok according to existing theory...

Or do we have one of the cases, where the extra-tempo in reversed openings does harm to white (as in some KIA-lines)? If this were the case, white could throw in  a3...

I am not claiming white is getting even the slightest chance of an advantage. But can a tame line against the (Pseudo- )Chigorin really lead to an advantage being played as black againt the Veresov?

I have to admit: I don't believe in "easy-to-play-secret-weapons-nobody-knows-leading-to-an-advantage".
That's exactly my point: If nobody plays 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nbd2 how can 1.d4 d5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bg5 Nbd7 lead to a Black advantage?

I see, this is almost a philosphical  subject

I really hope Eric gives us some insight into his thoughts...

GMEricPrie wrote on 09/22/10 at 07:47:45:



Well, Eric, you are a GM and I am only a weak FM (2250), but to my eye there seem to be some logical problems with your arguments.

If White cannot equalize after 2.Nc3, then 3.Nbd2!! would be the definite refutation of the Chigorin defence!

But I cannot see strong GM's employ this setup...

Now what is the conclusion? Has this killer-setup escaped the attention of almost all GM's? 
Or maybe you are too negative about White's chances in some of the lines?

After all I want to thank you for your great analysis, improving on existing theory in lots of places.

But...I have to admit that because of the Chigorin argument I have the impression it is not objective...

Or is there some possibility for Black in the Chigorin to take advantage of the fact he has not played Bg4 yet? Maybe Bf5? But does that change the assessment of the position?

I am really interested in an answer, because this question is keeping confusing me for quite a while...

Thanks

GMTonyKosten wrote on 09/21/10 at 13:45:23:


Tony is nothing if not consistent.