Normal Topic 1.c4 g5!? BORG (Or, Resistance is Futile.) (Read 9460 times)
TN
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Re: 1.c4 g5!? BORG (Or, Resistance is Futile.)
Reply #9 - 01/25/11 at 18:48:01
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Markovich wrote on 01/25/11 at 14:29:41:
I took the nuclear option and deleted everything of a personal dispute that was surprisingly carried on in this thread between two regular forum contributors, including some problematic remarks that sparked it.  People really should know better than to do this.  I've sent PMs to both of them. 

It was 8:15 am here in North America when I sat down to my computer and encountered the mess.  That accounts for the several hours delay between these posts and my dealing with them.  Thanks to those who sent me messages that something needed to be done.  That's very helpful to a moderator.


Thanks Markovich.  Smiley
  

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Re: 1.c4 g5!? BORG (Or, Resistance is Futile.)
Reply #8 - 01/25/11 at 14:29:41
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I took the nuclear option and deleted everything of a personal dispute that was surprisingly carried on in this thread between two regular forum contributors, including some problematic remarks that sparked it.  People really should know better than to do this.  I've sent PMs to both of them. 

It was 8:15 am here in North America when I sat down to my computer and encountered the mess.  That accounts for the several hours delay between these posts and my dealing with them.  Thanks to those who sent me messages that something needed to be done.  That's very helpful to a moderator.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Re: 1.c4 g5!? BORG (Or, Resistance is Futile.)
Reply #7 - 01/25/11 at 12:28:20
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TN wrote on 01/25/11 at 00:00:28:
Thread split?

To be honest 1...g5 is not total garbage, but in your given variation with 5...Qa5 6.Qc2, ...g5 seems worse than ...g6 since Black has to spend a tempo on defending the g5-pawn and White can gain the edge on the kingside with a quick h4. Furthermore, even the better version with ...g6 instead is not held in high regard by blitz. 

Another interesting option is the modest 2.d3!? Bg7 3.Nc3 e6 4.g3, when White has a small edge. 4...h5 might work well in blitz, but the simple 5.h3! makes it difficult for Black to generate real play.


Stefan Bucker's article doesn't mention 2.d3!?, but in the variation 1.c4 g5 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nc3 c5 4.d5 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3, he mentions 5...Qa5 6.Qb3 (perhaps Qc2 is an improvement) and gives 6...Nf6 7.g3 Nc6 and if 8.Bxg5 Ne4+=, and offers 5...h6, e.g. 6.Be3 Qa5.

The conclusion that I gather from the article is that 1.c4 g5 is playable (as Graham Burgess pointed out in the Mammoth Book of Chess, it has the argument that it improves on 1.g4 as the move c2-c4 prevents White from shoring up the a1-h8 diagonal with c2-c3) but it is insufficient for full equality.  I linked to the #15 article because it mentions the possibility of an early ...g5 against g3, Nf3 systems which might be sounder than against 1.c4.  I don't trust 1.e4 g5 though (and can reflect upon a casual game which continued 2.d4, whereupon Black defended the attacked g-pawn with the rather unsuccessful 2...f6).
  
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Re: 1.c4 g5!? BORG (Or, Resistance is Futile.)
Reply #6 - 01/25/11 at 10:59:36
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Annnywho.. I think 1...g5 is one of those defenses that can be fun to play, and can even become one of your pet surprise weapons. But if you're looking for a solid lifetime defense, I would recommend you look at something more classical and sound. You mentioned using it only for online blitz though, so I say, go for it. Experiment with it, and your chess understanding may improve from it.

I cautiously warn you, though, that somewhere down the line you may become disenchanted with it (usually after you discover it's weaknesses). Kind of like myself and the Modern Benoni. But still, I learned some important insights from that experience, so I say it's worth it to explore attractive trails, even if they may lead to dead ends.

Cheers
« Last Edit: 01/25/11 at 13:32:25 by Markovich »  
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Re: 1.c4 g5!? BORG (Or, Resistance is Futile.)
Reply #5 - 01/25/11 at 10:32:03
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Merovingian chose a fitting title for a thread where it's better to let the wookie win than try to resist for 24+ hours over something that no one else cares about. 

Did I mention that Marin doesn't even consider 1...g5? This is unacceptable. You have to cover all legal moves, including 1...g5. I hope that Marin corrects this in his next book. Now get back to the drawing board and be more comprehensive this time, Mr. 2600. 

Okay, Keano and BPaulsen, we'll call it a draw. Consider yourself fortunate not to be double-forfeited, or withdrawn from the tournament from that matter.
  

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Re: 1.c4 g5!? BORG (Or, Resistance is Futile.)
Reply #4 - 01/25/11 at 00:00:28
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Thread split?

To be honest 1...g5 is not total garbage, but in your given variation with 5...Qa5 6.Qc2, ...g5 seems worse than ...g6 since Black has to spend a tempo on defending the g5-pawn and White can gain the edge on the kingside with a quick h4. Furthermore, even the better version with ...g6 instead is not held in high regard by blitz. 

Another interesting option is the modest 2.d3!? Bg7 3.Nc3 e6 4.g3, when White has a small edge. 4...h5 might work well in blitz, but the simple 5.h3! makes it difficult for Black to generate real play.

  

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Re: 1.c4 g5!? BORG (Or, Resistance is Futile.)
Reply #3 - 01/24/11 at 23:22:00
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Merovingian wrote on 01/24/11 at 11:32:54:
What does Marin say? I have his first book (Grandmaster series) which I read a lot these days, but not the other 2. how about Kosten does he or any other modern source cover 1...g5?


Neither Marin nor Kosten (nor Povah, FWIW) mention it at all as far as I can see.
  
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Re: 1.c4 g5!? BORG (Or, Resistance is Futile.)
Reply #2 - 01/24/11 at 17:00:58
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Re: 1.c4 g5!? BORG (Or, Resistance is Futile.)
Reply #1 - 01/24/11 at 12:10:25
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I think Black gets decent counterplay after 3.Bxg5 c5, but better than taking the pawn could be 3.Nc3 trying to force Black into playing ...h6 and continue as normal. Then your 3...c5 is a good a practical shot alright although I think White must be better in that line.
« Last Edit: 01/25/11 at 13:37:02 by Markovich »  
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1.c4 g5!? BORG (Or, Resistance is Futile.)
01/24/11 at 11:32:54
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I'm getting good games with this, and always have, as far as my blitz. Is this just very uncharted, or does it have serious flaws?

Usually, I get either some tactical melee with:

1. c4 g5 2. d4 Bg7 3. Bxg5 c5 ... say something like...4. Nf3 Nc6 5. e3 Qb6

Or, 4. e3 Qb6 5. Qd2 cxd4 6. exd4 Qxd4 (Traded pawn g5 for better d4 pawn, a strategical plus.)

2. A kind of a "Beef-Eater" (Dzindzi-Style) with  1. c4 g5 2. d4 Bg7 3. Nc3 c5 4. d5 Bxc3 5. bxc3 Qa5 6. Qc2 

3. Some kind of eventual c5 from black making a Symmetrical English with g5 added instead of g6. (must have pro/cons)

4. A better, faster King's Indian/ Reversed closed Sicilian (as I have saves a tempo from g6-g5 [got it in one go])

What does Marin say? I have his first book (Grandmaster series) which I read a lot these days, but not the other 2. how about Kosten does he or any other modern source cover 1...g5?

Resistance is Futile.  Cheesy

Merovingian


  

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