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Poll Question: How do you like to set up your knights?
bars   pie

Forward    
  15 (32.6%)
To the left    
  6 (13.0%)
To the right    
  5 (10.9%)
To queenside    
  1 (2.2%)
To kingside    
  0 (0.0%)
Inward    
  11 (23.9%)
Outward    
  2 (4.3%)
45 degrees in    
  0 (0.0%)
Any which way    
  5 (10.9%)
To my mood    
  0 (0.0%)
Other    
  1 (2.2%)




Total votes: 46
« Last Modified by: ReneDescartes on: 01/06/17 at 22:25:05 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Which way do you face your knights? (Read 21023 times)
kylemeister
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Re: Which way do you face your knights?
Reply #37 - 01/19/17 at 04:56:08
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OT:  perhaps this leaves the big question of how different players deal with captured pieces.  See how Fischer lined them up here:  http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1044125

(Anand-Giri in the new Open Sicilians update reminded me, albeit vaguely, of that game.)

(edit:  okay, maybe that wasn't Fischer's doing)
« Last Edit: 01/19/17 at 17:16:39 by kylemeister »  
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gwnn
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Re: Which way do you face your knights?
Reply #36 - 01/18/17 at 09:29:50
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Any people who put the knight down "forward" after a "forward move" (like Nf3) but sideways after a sideways move (Nge2)? It would seem to make some mechanical sense but in practice I always face them forward and get a tiny irritation when my opponent has his/hers facing sideways (it doesn't last). Good to know others care too. Yes I have had my knights turned by 90 degrees too. I usually turn them back a bit later to avoid a direct war.

Keano wrote on 01/12/17 at 22:39:15:
Down with the side-wayers I say.

You mean "step aside?" 
  
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ReneDescartes
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Re: Which way do you face your knights?
Reply #35 - 01/17/17 at 18:05:11
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Yes, the kinesthetic and mechanical aspects of this are interesting--I'm left-handed and grab my pieces from the side, as if executing a backhand stroke in tennis, or using the Kramnik praying-mantis movement, which is a modified backhand. I'd have to strain awkwardly to point my hand forward.

Keres seems to have placed his knights facing  left or kingside, anyway almost always both sideways facing the same way, in photos of games in progress.
« Last Edit: 01/18/17 at 18:01:06 by ReneDescartes »  
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Jupp53
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Re: Which way do you face your knights?
Reply #34 - 01/17/17 at 03:59:46
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As I'm moving the knight by grabbing his head with thumb and index he automatically lands on his new square looking to my opponent. Over the years I simply got used to it. And sometimes I don't really care and there are deviations to the left or the right of about 45 angular degrees.

More important to me is placing the pieces nearly to the middle. I can't see any right to correct my opponents pieces except they touch two squares. His pieces are his, mine are mine. Correcting my pieces would be a sign of a rude person.
  

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Stigma
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Re: Which way do you face your knights?
Reply #33 - 01/16/17 at 01:38:06
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ReneDescartes wrote on 01/15/17 at 17:07:19:
Stigma wrote on 01/10/17 at 21:18:07:
Regarding style connections: I admire players with a universal style but leaning more towards the aggressive, and consider Alekhine, Spassky and Anand - all "forwarders" according to the original list - prime examples of that style.


That makes sense to me, nice way of imagining it.

Further names for the mix:

Tarrasch: left.
Rubinstein: forward.

Thanks. I've actually thought of making this style more of a conscious improvement project by "brainwashing" myself with hundreds of games by these players and others like them. I'm fairly sure Keres fits (have you seen any photos of his knights, by the way?). An interesting coincidence (or maybe not): Zenon Franco has written well-received Everyman "Move by Move" books on both Spassky, Anand and most recently Keres in the last few years (though also on Morphy and Rubinstein).

Kasparov is a borderline case between universal-aggressive and all-out attacker, but many of the ultra-attackers become more sedate and universal as they mature anyway. This is even true of Tal in the 1980s and Shirov today! But I'm not sure who among today's top playes best fit the universal-aggressive label apart from Anand - maybe Aronian, Svidler or Ivanchuk (though he plays in all styles and openings apparently). And maybe Western players like Kamsky, van Wely, Short, and Nunn when they were closer to the top of the rating lists.

To continue the quasi-psychological speculation: Maybe universal-aggressive players face the knights forward because we need a reminder to play aggressively, while for more natural or reckless attackers that goes without saying, so they don't need forward knights as a visual que.  Smiley
« Last Edit: 01/16/17 at 03:09:48 by Stigma »  

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ReneDescartes
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Re: Which way do you face your knights?
Reply #32 - 01/15/17 at 17:07:19
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Stigma wrote on 01/10/17 at 21:18:07:
Regarding style connections: I admire players with a universal style but leaning more towards the aggressive, and consider Alekhine, Spassky and Anand - all "forwarders" according to the original list - prime examples of that style.


That makes sense to me, nice way of imagining it.

Further names for the mix:

Tarrasch: left.
Rubinstein: forward.

So far we have, in both polls, rough parity between three groups--forward,  (other) symmetrical, and sideways same-side.
« Last Edit: 01/15/17 at 20:43:40 by ReneDescartes »  
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Re: Which way do you face your knights?
Reply #31 - 01/14/17 at 03:35:49
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I remember coming across a lengthy discussion of this at Lloyds masters some years back. The arguments were...

In favour of side pointing: 
Not likely to get mixed up with another piece, cos you can see the faces.

Forward pointing:
Aggression, heading into battle.

Someone should ask Christopher Lambert: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104627/

I am just wondering how to position the bishop head slits myself....
  
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Re: Which way do you face your knights?
Reply #30 - 01/14/17 at 02:09:44
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Down with the side-wayers I say.
  
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Re: Which way do you face your knights?
Reply #29 - 01/12/17 at 22:39:15
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Down with the side-wayers I say.
  
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Re: Which way do you face your knights?
Reply #28 - 01/12/17 at 19:55:27
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With every glimpse of a forward-facing knight, I sigh for the perpetual barbarity and boorishness of humankind.
  
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Re: Which way do you face your knights?
Reply #27 - 01/11/17 at 04:37:39
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inward - reflecting a purely visual preference for the side profile in favor of the back of the knight-head.
One effect of facing the knights inward over facing them the same direction is that you can tell the origination square of each knight far into the game.  This rarely matters at all but sometimes i've seen old descriptive notation like KN-Q4 or QN-Q4.
  

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Re: Which way do you face your knights?
Reply #26 - 01/10/17 at 23:35:15
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ReneDescartes wrote on 01/10/17 at 20:06:04:

It does gross me out when my opponent's knights face forward like little slivers, but I take the Botvinnik approach--I have deliberately placed my opponent's knights facing forward and mine facing left when analyzing positions, to simulate unpleasant tournament conditions! Bit of a weird confession, but true.

Good idea, I might try that. Perhaps one could also construct a robot that adjusts the pieces, or offers a draw, at random moments while one is deep in thought?

Actually I would readily forgive my opponents for disguising the knightliness of their knights if I could rely on them only to move the knights forward.
  
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Re: Which way do you face your knights?
Reply #25 - 01/10/17 at 21:18:07
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Regarding style connections: I admire players with a universal style but leaning more towards the aggressive, and consider Alekhine, Spassky and Anand - all "forwarders" according to the original list - prime examples of that style.

(Though when I get peaceful positions I just pretend I'm Smyslov or Karpov instead, with variable results, so maybe the above is just psychobabble...)
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Re: Which way do you face your knights?
Reply #24 - 01/10/17 at 20:45:26
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ReneDescartes wrote on 01/10/17 at 13:40:49:

But in that poll we found out that ErictheRed hated people who face their knights forward! Since then, however, there's been great social progress...surely people who face their knights forward can now be warmly welcomed and celebrated for their accomplishments, even if they didn't break the Nazi codes. (This by way of response to Stigma below  Wink)


Ha ha Cheesy Maybe I would have been a GM by now if only I used my knights more as calculation-friendly variables?

I often think when my knights are pointing forward while my opponent's are not, that's a subtle sign I'm more ready for a fight - a small psychological victory. But if you guys are saying forward-looking knights just gross you out or annoy you slightly, I'm happy to take that effect instead.

Note to self: If ever in command of a classical army in battle, don't put ReneDescartes, ErictheRed or Straggler in charge of the cavalry.  Wink
  

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ReneDescartes
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Re: Which way do you face your knights?
Reply #23 - 01/10/17 at 20:11:51
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TalJechin wrote on 01/10/17 at 20:05:07:
ReneDescartes wrote on 01/10/17 at 13:40:49:
Karpov as Black almost goes right/queenside, but as White he seems to vary. There are quite a few old and new photos of right/kingside as White and also many new photos of left/queenside as White. It almost seems he uses queenside in the West and right in Russia. But they always face the same direction


I was reminded of an old Kinky Friendman novel (forget which one) where, iirc, in a picture of a chessplayer he appeared to be right handed when he was left handed (or vice versa) due to some kind of mirroring of the image when developed... Could that perhaps be an explanation for Karpov's knights? Maybe west and east had different methods in developing pictures in those days? I know far too little about photography - but maybe we have someone here who can tell us if that's a possible explanation?


If that were true, the board would have a dark square on the right, which is not the case in these photos.

http://www.kasparov.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/62%D0%A1%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0...

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/.vd.SSu990oNabUwUV1jkQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlc...

https://cdn.chess24.com/pKL6A3r3Qbu_55-gGZMJPA/original/karpov-furman-opening-pr...

http://c7.alamy.com/comp/GTE871/world-chess-champion-anatoly-karpov-of-russia-ma...

The last is against Anand in Lausanne. The black-and-white is against Furman in Russia.
  
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