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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Palliser's Anti-Sicilians book (Read 91904 times)
Uberdecker
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Re: Palister's Anti Sicilian book
Reply #18 - 06/08/07 at 16:15:30
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True, this is indeed the only point of playing the Morra rather than the Alapin move-order. I think this one of MNb's favorite subjects, so you can expect him to merrily chime in. My only contibution is this : Black has an independant attempt in 4. ...Ktf6.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Palister's Anti Sicilian book
Reply #17 - 06/08/07 at 15:15:37
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Yeah, playing 2. d4 cd 3. c3 d5 isn't considered a fully-fledged way of declining, since after 4. ed Qxd5 5. cd White can soon play Nc3 (Black generally doesn't allow that so readily after 2. c3 d5) ...  
  
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zoo
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Re: Palister's Anti Sicilian book
Reply #16 - 06/08/07 at 09:55:07
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Interesting thought, that maybe strong players would steer away from 1. e4 c5 2. d4 cd 3. c3 Nf6 for sake of avoiding the mainlines of the 2. c3 Nf6 sicilian.  Then if Black plays  3. c3 d5 instead, does he concede anything  from the regular 2. c3 d5 lines ? if so, it could be an idea to play 2. d4 first (or against 2. c3 d5 players). But can White gain something with 1. e4 c5 2. d4 cd 3. c3 d5 compared to 1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 ? sorry for revealing such ignorance at move 2 on a chess openings website  Huh
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Palister's Anti Sicilian book
Reply #15 - 06/07/07 at 22:25:51
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I was glad to see that Peter Wells (successfully) played the 6...a6 line (my favourite) recently in the 4NCL (Brit league).  My impression is that it isn't played very frequently by GMs when they are faced with the gambit.  I've been surprised to see several GMs decline the gambit by 3...d3, which seems to give White good chances for an edge (and thus, I would think, swings the objective evaluation of the position from =+ to += in one move).  Presumably the GMs who play that way want to avoid the possible dangers (or drawishness, in the case of declining by 3...Nf6) of main lines, and figure that 3...d3 still gives them plenty of scope to outplay their generally significantly lower-rated opponents.    
  
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MNb
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Re: Palister's Anti Sicilian book
Reply #14 - 06/07/07 at 21:52:10
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For some concrete lines on 6...a6 I refer to the game Hague-Uberdeker.

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1154029852

This game did not exactly encouraging me to pick up the Morra again.


On the quick queenside expansion:

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1159716408

From White's point of view I suspect, that studying the Morra takes as much time as the Open Sicilian. The difference is of course not the lacking pawn, but the fact, that White has a much wider choice against all the defences of the Open Sicilian. Eg against the Najdorf there is 6.g3, 6.a4, 6.f4, 6.Be3, 6.Bc4, 6.Bg5, 6.Be2 and sorry if I forget someone's pet line.
Against 4...e6; 5...a6; 6...b5; and 7...Bb7 White basically has only one attacking plan. The gambit 8.0-0 is not really independent, as after d6 White will probably have to play 9.Qe2 anyway. I think this a big objection.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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Re: Palister's Anti Sicilian book
Reply #13 - 06/07/07 at 10:20:40
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Of course you can join in MNB, you can bring far more to the table than I can! Smiley

I agree that I would like to see ...a6 and ...d6.  There seemed nothing wrong with the line when Gallagher wrote about it, so I presume it just needs updating.  I seem to recall that 7 b4 was one not so ludicrous looking idea that needed dealing with and I remember 'Pantu' once having a game in York with 7 Bg5, although the resulting Rauzer positions a pawn up looked pretty non- threatening for black.  White had an open c-file and a tempo or so, but black is well used to having play on that avenue too in mainline sicilians, so I aren't sure that a pawn deficit really helps white!

Obviously, these are just words and need to be backed up by moves though!   

Interesting to see that game TopNotch, I seem to recall seeing that in a Motwani book and thinking it was good, but I guess time and tide wait for no man!

Oh, for exams to finish and to have the time to get a set out...
  

1, "You very rarely sacrifice pieces"&&2, "That's because I spend most of my time losing them instead"
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MNb
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Re: Palister's Anti Sicilian book
Reply #12 - 06/07/07 at 01:53:32
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Hoppers wrote on 06/06/07 at 16:06:25:

 I too am interested to see The Anti- Morra recommendation.  In the past, I just memorised the line given in NCO as =/+, involving a quick e6/a6/b5, but in practical games, white just met ...b4 with Nd5 sacs and whatever the objective assessment, white players were typically happy with their practical chances!

Finally, I am looking forward to the reaction of Morra players, because practitioners of such gambits tend to defend them to the hilt and well...the BDG threads have gone a bit quiet! Wink


I hope, that ex-Morra players like me may participate as well, even though I will not defend this gambit to the hilt.  Wink
Frankly I do not trust that quick e6/a6/b5 variation for Black. Indeed, there are Nd5 sacs in abundance. If that is not possible (ie Black does not play ...b5-b4), White just develops and doubles rooks on the d-file. In general White must postpone the loss of tempo a2-a3 as long as possible. There are a few games by Mladen Zelic, which show this strategy.
I do not trust those ...Bc5 lines either. In TN's example White can try Nunn's recommendation 10.Bf4 e5 11.Ng5.
The other defence with 6...a6 is in perfect shape though. At the moment 7.Qe2 (or 7.0-0) Nf6 8.h3 seems White's best try, which is quite lame of course after ...e6. Compare 6...e6 7.0-0 Be7 8.Qe2 a6 etc, where White can play more active moves than x.h3.
If Black is willing to do some more preparation, 4...Nc6 5.Nf3 e6 6.Bc4 a6 7.0-0 Nge7 8.Bg5 f6 9.Be3 Ng6 is also good.
Finally I maintain, that the Fianchetto Defence 4...g6 5.Nf3 Bg7 6.Bc4 Bg7 7.e5 is underrated. After all two pawns are quite a lot. At the other hand Black exactly must know what he is doing in order to avoid getting crushed.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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TopNotch
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Re: Palister's Anti Sicilian book
Reply #11 - 06/06/07 at 22:40:37
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Hoppers wrote on 06/06/07 at 16:06:25:

 I too am interested to see The Anti- Morra recommendation.  In the past, I just memorised the line given in NCO as =/+, involving a quick e6/a6/b5, but in practical games, white just met ...b4 with Nd5 sacs and whatever the objective assessment, white players were typically happy with their practical chances!

One of my greatest disappointments in recent years was when Rogozenko just recommended 3...Nf6 in typically solid Eastern European fashion, because, "Black isn't worse in the c3 sicilian".  Fair enough, but I tend to side with Gallaghers' old argument that it's better to take a pawn and suffer a little than not at all.

Finally, I am looking forward to the reaction of Morra players, because practitioners of such gambits tend to defend them to the hilt and well...the BDG threads have gone a bit quiet! Wink


Yes Rogozenko dodging the Morra was a real cop out, not to mention that his suggested bail out, namely the Alapin, he now considers as promising for White.  Angry 

Honestly, is the Morra so dangerous or was Rogo saving space?

These would be my recommendations  had I written the book: 1.e4 c5 2.d4 cd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 Nc6 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bc4 a6! [an important move] 7.0-0 Nf6 Incidentally this seems to be variation of choice among most of the top British players.

Alternatively I also like the way GM M. Chandler handled the gambit in the following game: 1.e4 c5 2.d4 cd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 e6 5.Nf3 Bc5 The black bishop is quite active here, and in essence says to White I have an extra pawn and the initiative, which is not a very good ad for a gambit by any means 6.Bc4 d6! this discourages e5 and prepares to meet Bf4 with e5. I much prefer 6...d6 to the more common 6...Ne7. The Chandler game concluded:

[Site Walsall]
[Date 1992.]
[White Down,Nick ]
[Black Chandler,Murray]
[Result 0-1]
[ECO B21]
[Round 1]

7. O-O a6 8. a3 Ne7 9. b4 Ba7 10. Qe2 O-O 11. Bf4 Ng6 12. Bg3 Nc6 13. Rfd1 e5 14. Qd2 Bg4 15. Qxd6 Bxf3 16. gxf3 Qg5 17. Qd2 Qxd2 18. Rxd2 Nd4 19. Kg2 Rac8 0-1


Cheers

Toppy Smiley


  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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Re: Palister's Anti Sicilian book
Reply #10 - 06/06/07 at 16:06:25
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  I too am interested to see The Anti- Morra recommendation.  In the past, I just memorised the line given in NCO as =/+, involving a quick e6/a6/b5, but in practical games, white just met ...b4 with Nd5 sacs and whatever the objective assessment, white players were typically happy with their practical chances!

One of my greatest disappointments in recent years was when Rogozenko just recommended 3...Nf6 in typically solid Eastern European fashion, because, "Black isn't worse in the c3 sicilian".  Fair enough, but I tend to side with Gallaghers' old argument that it's better to take a pawn and suffer a little than not at all.

Finally, I am looking forward to the reaction of Morra players, because practitioners of such gambits tend to defend them to the hilt and well...the BDG threads have gone a bit quiet! Wink
  

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Re: Palister's Anti Sicilian book
Reply #9 - 06/06/07 at 09:32:36
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Looks interesting, I will give it a try next time I face him Smiley
  
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Re: Palister's Anti Sicilian book
Reply #8 - 06/05/07 at 21:52:42
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Against the Morra, I've always liked the line 1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 a6 5. Nf3 e6 6. Bc4 b5 7. Bb3 Bb7 8. Qe2 d6 9. O-O Be7 10. Rfd1 Nd7. It's a very easy system to play and Black scores extremely well with it
  
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Re: Palister's Anti Sicilian book
Reply #7 - 06/04/07 at 11:44:30
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Since a player in my local club always plays the Morra I am a but curios what system you recommend against it?
  
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IMRichardPalliser
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Re: Palliser's Anti-Sicilian book
Reply #6 - 06/03/07 at 18:16:14
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2 Na3 and 2 a3 make it - not 2 a4 or 2 Nh3 I'm afraid.
In general there's two lines for Black against all W's major alternatives to 2 Nf3: 2 c3, the Closed, Grand Prix (both versions), 2 b3 and the Morra.
  
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Re: Palliser's Anti Sicilian book
Reply #5 - 06/01/07 at 15:01:13
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Is it meant to be exhaustive? That is to say, does it cover all the odd-ball (but not pointless) early sidelines such as 2. Kta3 , 2. a4 and 2. a3 (2. Kth3 would be taking the attempt at completeness a bit too far maybe) ?
  
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Re: Palister's (sic) Anti Sicilian book
Reply #4 - 06/01/07 at 14:46:10
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The book's finished I believe...but you might need to ask Mr Palliser and/or change the title of this thread.  Wink
Hennie - thanks and yes to the tree format!
  
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