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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Time trouble! (Read 22189 times)
Crapov
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #50 - 09/06/09 at 20:28:12
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"For a long time now I have told certain of our masters who regularly get involved in serious time-trouble how to overcome this weakness. Unfortunately, only a few masters have taken my advice, apparently, yet it is very simple. Training games must be played in which the first consideration is the clock, and not the quality of the play, or its result, and this play by the clock must be continued until making the best possible use of the time, including consideration of all the main variations, becomes a habit. I think this method would completely cure 90 per cent of those who suffer from "time-trouble sickness."
-Botvinnik in One Hundred Selected Games

This is the best advice I've come across about the subject and I'm presently using this method to try to improve my time-usage.
  
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Sylvester
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #49 - 09/06/09 at 07:43:48
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Scanning the thread quickly I could not see any reference to Rolf Wetzell's book Chess Master at Any Age. I think that was the book. It's close.

Probably the best section in the book was his personal approach and triumph overcoming his addiction to time trouble. It sounded like good logic to me.
  
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chk
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #48 - 11/08/07 at 16:50:20
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well, that's the path to wisdom  Wink

(...blitz is the path to chess hell !)

  

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winawer77
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #47 - 11/07/07 at 20:39:06
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Chk, I agree with you. The psychological aspect of chess is much underestimated. In general, I think that the best way is to find something that 'works for you', as any type of general advice usually misses the point. This requires you to study yourself (not just your moves) and work out what needs to change. This is what I have tried to do with my approach to time trouble. In fact, calling this thread 'Time Trouble!" was probably missing the point...'Effective Time Management, and how to achieve it!" would have been better, since I am trying to eliminate time trouble from my play, rather than learning how to cope with it. Smiley

Certainly for me, this thread has been useful as it has helped me identify what has been going wrong. I am now applying this in my own games, and the results have been encouraging, even if it is still early days.

Regarding psychology - I think it pays to spend some time thinking about this. In a game between roughly equally matched players the difference between winning/drawing/losing is often psychological. If you are able to be strong mentally, stay concentrated, show a determination to win then you are able to outperform your rating. This is the part that interests me....I am trying to find a way of maximising my chances of success, that is to say, creating the conditions (psychological and on the board) that will allow me to play to my full capacity. For me, the main problem was my awful time management (hence the thread), which I needed to address before all else. Undecided Other areas include specialising in a streamlined opening repertoire and playing positions that you understand. For this you have to take into account things like king safety, pawn structure, activity of pieces etc. For example, in 'Win with the London System' (Johnsen/Kovacevic) the introuduction makes the following point 'No matter what your playing strength is, we bet that you would increase your ELO rating by several hundred points if in each and every games you got positions where the pawn structure and piece placement were familiar and the long term plans and typical tactical motifs were seconds nature to you'. Although this is about an opening setup, the point is still valid - if you can create the conditions that allow you to play to your maximum potential, then you can outperform your rating.

Incidentally, I followed the links (to the Kevin Spraggett site) that you posted in one of your previous threads. They were quite good, and touched upon some useful issues concerning our subject matter. Smiley
  
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chk
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #46 - 11/07/07 at 14:46:38
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.. or you are playing against stronger players.

I like your comments, but completely eliminating time trouble seems a bit unrealistic to me. OK,maybe only a small percentage of your games results in time trouble, but what if it turns out that these were the most important games of the year?  Sad

I would also like to clarify the point I made earlier regarding 'nerves of steel':
Don't get me wrong - I certainly don't have nerves of steel. Sometimes I cannot even bear watching the games of my team's captain who is a time trouble addict.
But I do believe that one should work on that if this turns out to be the real problem. Moreover, I don't have an easy fix as it's all about psychology. One must face his/her own demons and the quicker, the better.

To sum it up: We do not improve our OTB play only by acquiring better chess skills. Our physical, mental and psychological state, plus our current mood has also a big part to play (especially re games between players of equal strength).
  

"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
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winawer77
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #45 - 11/06/07 at 21:33:08
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I fully understand where Meat is coming from. In these positions its not just the lack of time that is bad enough, its also keeping a clear head. I do not handle these positions at all well.

When I started this thread my intention was not to discover how to handle time-trouble more effectively, but rather how to avoid it altogether. This was what was troubling me so much. Here are my findings, so make a cup of tea and get comfortable.... Cheesy

Indeed, the idea of 'shuffling' without really changing the position is a good one, and I believe the answer more of less lies here. Being able to manoeuvre without changing the fundamental nature of the position is more difficult than it sounds, however players such as Karpov (always my favourite player) have shown themselves to be excellent at this. This is they key to it and its not something I have ever really been able to do quickly. There is no point 'shuffling' if it takes you 5+ minutes per shuffle move. This has always been my problem. Essentially, I am wasting time on moves such as this, rather than having it in store for the critical part of the game that is to come. Jockeying for position is an essential part of every sport, it occurs in football/boxing etc. As Meat's story demonstrated - there is no use in getting a wonderful position if you do not have the time to finish it off.

Therefore I have been changing my strategy, with some success. I have been doing two things, which I shall explain. These may not be relevant to everyone, but they are to me. Hopefully others will benefit too.

Firstly, and most importantly, I have tried to continue thinking and analysing on my opponent's time. This might sounds obvious, but for years I pretty much switched off/went for a walk/grabbed a tea or coffee/looked at the other games in progress when it was not my turn. Therefore, when it comes to my move I have had to start my analysis from scratch. Now, by thinking on my opponent's time I am much closer to making a decision and produce a move in a fraction of the time. Basically, all this time I was only doing half of the thinking that my opponent was. Against weaker opponents you can get away with this, however, against stronger or equally rated players I could hardly hope to achieve success operating at only 50% capacity. Undecided

Secondly, I have changed my view of the clock as part of the game. In the past, the clock was merely something that got in my way, something that prevented me spending the time I needed to play to my full potential. This is a bad way of seeing it, and I have adjusted this view, which runs thus......a game of chess is fought on two fronts, the board and the clock. Winning on one front will not bring success if you lose on the other, as Meat's example showed. I therefore try to fight against my opponent not only by producing the best moves that I can find (see point 1) but also pressuring him by trying to stay up on time. This is my goal, to pressure my opponent to breaking point on both fronts. I know how awful time pressure (and the psychological demons that go with it) can be, and my opponent has more chance of going wrong/cracking if he is pressured on both fronts. By my slow play, I was unwittingly giving my opponent all the time he needed to relax and produce the best moves. Huh

This is my solution, which I am only just starting to implement in my own games. In my last 6 games I have actually been up on time(!) in 3 of them Smiley, while in the other three it was service as usual for me Huh. The only downside to this is the amount of mental energy expended. This is ok for 1 game a day situations, but for tournaments with 2 or 3 games/day I find that I am struggling to sustain this high-tempo chess. Maybe I am just getting old! Smiley
  
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Stigma
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #44 - 11/06/07 at 18:37:29
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Meat wrote on 11/06/07 at 15:58:22:
A friend of mine also suggested more tactical training. The point is to quickly spot possibilities in time trouble and avoid being nervous about missing anything when I have to play fast.


I would strongly second that advice. I don't see how one can be confident and focused in time trouble if one does not believe in one's own tactical abilities.

At the risk of trolling, I am frankly surprised that blitz as a training tool is so controversial, and I haven't yet seen a good counter to the argument that by studying one's blitz games one can learn a lot about one's automatic pattern recognition, and develop a training plan for improving the weak spots. It has been the standard view in cognitive psychology for decades that the main factor in chess playing strength is the amount of meaningful chess patterns one possesses, and it seems obvious to me that blitz gives a purer access to one's patterns than longer games, when thinking "gets in the way", so to speak. Probably it is more accurate to say that blitz is a diagnostic tool in this model, the actual training is then based on what one has discovered.

ErictheRed wrote on 11/06/07 at 05:29:32:
[...] In all other ways I think it's detrimental; this is why:

Pro-blitz players often say that playing blitz helps to assimilate lots of patterns and typical ideas, etc.  This is true, and this is the danger!  You end up assimilating crappy ideas and patterns.  What works in blitz doesn't usually work in 40/120 games.  If in blitz one side whips of a spectacular sacrificial attack, is it really beneficial to have gotten it into your store of patterns?  More often than not, you'll find that these attacks and things were unsound.


Well, this is the reason why I said that one must consciously approach blitz as training, not for its own sake. I try to play the moves that strike me as best even in blitz, and almost never engage in unsound attacks "just because it is blitz". This means that I lose a lot of winning positions on time, and also lose to unsound attacks quite frequently. But then I ask myself what defensive resources I missed, and I learn something about what kind of positions i should study. I repeat, none of this is intended to replace standard chess training, it's just a useful addition.

ErictheRed wrote on 11/06/07 at 05:29:32:
Regarding Blitz:
Also, how does misplaying 100s of King and Pawn endgames help your store of Kind and Pawn endgame patterns??  


It doesn't in itself of course, but it does tell you that you really need to work on King and Pawn endings, information that is harder to get from long games. This is because a) you don't get pawn endings (or any other specific individual type of position/pattern) that often, and b) when you do get them with plenty of time you might be able to reason and calculate your way through them despite the lacking patterns, and conclude erronously that everything is in order.

As for the direct effect of blitz on time trouble skill, I can only say that my nerves have a little more "steel" after my bullet training, but I don't pretend this is the solution for everyone. I have also played handicap blitz games OTB where I would have as little as 30 sec. for the whole game (against very weak opposition of course) and those games are almost pure pattern recognition and physical reaction time. After that experience "normal" time trouble doesn't seem that hard by comparison. The harder the traning, the easier the competition!
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #43 - 11/06/07 at 16:03:23
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Meat wrote on 11/06/07 at 15:58:22:

c) Who has nerves of steel anyway? I certainly don't, that's true. But how can one improve in this field?

That's the $1,000,000 question

Personally I use beer, but that may not be the best for everyone Wink
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Meat
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #42 - 11/06/07 at 15:58:22
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Quote:
It seems to me that our fellow Meat's problem may be attributed to different things, e.g.: a) slow play (OK-then practice with blitz), b) his decision-making (as MNb & others have suggested), c) lack of nerves of steel (as I suggested), etc.


a) That's too simple. I'm not really a slow player, and don't end in time trouble every game. The problem is, when I do, I blow it much too often.

b) Probably yes. As in the mentioned game, where I was unsure what to do (go for the kill, or play safe) and failed at both.

c) Who has nerves of steel anyway? I certainly don't, that's true. But how can one improve in this field?

A friend of mine also suggested more tactical training. The point is to quickly spot possibilities in time trouble and avoid being nervous about missing anything when I have to play fast.

By the way, thanks everybody for the helpful comments!
  
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chk
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #41 - 11/06/07 at 14:40:10
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@Stigma: It may be not far-fetched to suggest that one's state of mind after that 'switch' is similar to a blitz game..but.. imagine yourself playing an important OTB game: You have already 'invested' 3 hours in the game, may feel excited, anxious, frightened or nervous. This in not what I usually feel in my blitz games where I am relaxed and have nothing to lose! (except my precious time of course  Undecided)

It seems to me that our fellow Meat's problem may be attributed to different things, e.g.: a) slow play (OK-then practice with blitz), b) his decision-making (as MNb & others have suggested), c) lack of nerves of steel (as I suggested), etc.
If the last one is the real cause of his problem he should work on that; not neccessarily by using blitz as a tool (i.e. it may be better to learn & practice how to calm down when under pressure than to mechanically play lots of blitz).

P.S.: I fully agree with what  "ErictheRed" said (he expressed my thoughts, but in a better way).  Cool
  

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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #40 - 11/06/07 at 14:11:51
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MNb wrote on 11/05/07 at 20:56:06:
Meat wrote on 11/05/07 at 10:06:51:

Indeed there were decisive tactics in the position. But it was not absolutely necessary to embark into them. There were ways to play for a solid positional edge, but of course I didn't want to give away my attack. So I tried to calculate everything.
You are right, 9 mins should be enough time, but I guess I was afraid to provoke a tactical struggle when time trouble is just ahead, then miscalculated and played some meek and inferior moves, even though I technically had enough time to find the best continuation.

So the problem doesn't exactly begin with the actual time trouble for me, I starts as soon as I begin to smell time trouble.


I am not sure, but maybe my point was not clear. You should have decided which course to take at move 30. If you decide to spend 9 minutes of the 10 remaining, your goal must be finishing your opponent of. If you are afraid of such a tactical struggle (but why? if you are sure you are winning by force), you should follow Eric's advice and stabilize your advantage. For this course it is better to take 1½ minute per move at most. It is clear to me now, that you got the worst of both courses ....

Yep at some point you need to make a decision and stick to it. Later when you have more time you can re-evaluate the new position and see if you need to alter your plan again.

You can see this approach a lot in games of Tal and Bronstein for example, but also Korchnoi. I remember seeing a game of his against Polgar in the dutch competition in which he had to decide between a dead drawn position or go for broke with little time. So he took a few minutes on that decision. He went for broke of course and blitzed out the moves until the time control and then taking a long think again. Iirc it was a draw anyway.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #39 - 11/06/07 at 14:02:03
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It is clear to me now, that you got the worst of both courses ....


That is precisely the problem.  Cry
  
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #38 - 11/06/07 at 05:29:32
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Regarding Blitz:
I have for a long time felt that Blitz is not helpful for chess.  It may, perhaps, help you to move quickly when you are in those time trouble situations, but that is ALL, in my opinion.  In all other ways I think it's detrimental; this is why:

Pro-blitz players often say that playing blitz helps to assimilate lots of patterns and typical ideas, etc.  This is true, and this is the danger!  You end up assimilating crappy ideas and patterns.  What works in blitz doesn't usually work in 40/120 games.  If in blitz one side whips of a spectacular sacrificial attack, is it really beneficial to have gotten it into your store of patterns?  More often than not, you'll find that these attacks and things were unsound.  And I don't mean unsound in the sense that Rybka would beat them off, but unsound in the sense that anyone half-decent would defend against them if they just had an extra 20 minutes or so.  Also, how does misplaying 100s of King and Pawn endgames help your store of Kind and Pawn endgame patterns??   

Of course, this is just my opinion.  Blitz is fun, and I play it to relax, but I genuinely think it's bad for your OTB chess (as long as OTB means at least G/60 or so).
  
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #37 - 11/05/07 at 20:56:06
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Meat wrote on 11/05/07 at 10:06:51:

Indeed there were decisive tactics in the position. But it was not absolutely necessary to embark into them. There were ways to play for a solid positional edge, but of course I didn't want to give away my attack. So I tried to calculate everything.
You are right, 9 mins should be enough time, but I guess I was afraid to provoke a tactical struggle when time trouble is just ahead, then miscalculated and played some meek and inferior moves, even though I technically had enough time to find the best continuation.

So the problem doesn't exactly begin with the actual time trouble for me, I starts as soon as I begin to smell time trouble.


I am not sure, but maybe my point was not clear. You should have decided which course to take at move 30. If you decide to spend 9 minutes of the 10 remaining, your goal must be finishing your opponent of. If you are afraid of such a tactical struggle (but why? if you are sure you are winning by force), you should follow Eric's advice and stabilize your advantage. For this course it is better to take 1½ minute per move at most. It is clear to me now, that you got the worst of both courses ....
  

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Stigma
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #36 - 11/05/07 at 12:49:39
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 11/05/07 at 03:21:53:
Now that most tournaments allow for at least a 5 second delay practicing pushing wood in bullet chess doesn't make sense.


In what part of the world do you play? I have only had two otb tournaments with increment in my whole life (and I absolutely loved it, since my extreme time troubles were not such a big problem).

Quote:
I suggest instead playing blitz (at least 3 0) or even better, playing 15-5 chess games online.  Five seconds is plenty of time to make reasonable moves in a clearly winning endgame.  After you've played through a few games, go back and analyse the endgames that you reached and see how to improve play for both sides.  

This way, you will be studying endgames that matter to you because they actually occurred in your games.  Make sure that you study key exchanges that were made and why each exchange happened.  Once you've done that, play through the most interesting positions against your computer.  

This is serious work, and it will probably result in your playing only a few games a day and studying much more.  But this is virtually guaranteed to improve your overall game and your time trouble at the same time!


That is all good advice, but with as much time as 15-5 there will be plenty of time for thinking. My point was that playing blitz or bullet in addition to (not instead of) longer time controls gives direct access to one's unconscious, raw pattern recognition, which it is useful to improve. Even in long games, the more one sees instantly, the less one has to discover by thinking, so this practice should help against time trouble too. Of course one also gets more examples quickly, since each game doesn't take long.

@chk:
I have the exact same experience of making a "switch", a conscious decision to play quicky and with total focus from now until the time control. Is it too far-fetched to suggest that one's state of mind after that switch is similar to a blitz or bullet game?
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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