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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C20-C69: Dangerous Weapons 1.e4 e5   (Read 101705 times)
micawber
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Re: Dangerous Weapons 1.e4 e5
Reply #29 - 02/24/08 at 21:53:59
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@ IM Andrew Greet,
Thx, for your detailed reply.
I will not ask you to reveal any secret weapons after 
6.Bc4,0-0 7.Bd2,Ng4 8.Qe2,Nd4  Wink

I was aware of the game Varavin-Tjurin 2001 you mentioned,
but I consider that black went a bit wrong as early as move 11.
But I wonder if you have considered that black has another
method to equalize:
8.Qe2, d5!?TN an interesting pawn sac
9.Nxd5       
      
(9.cxd5, Nd4 10.Qd3?!, Bc5! -+; 9.Bxd5, Bc5! 10.Bxc6,Bxf2+ -+)
9........, Bc5!
10.Be3,

(10.Nh3,Nd4 -+)
10......., Nxe3
11.Nxe3

(10.fxe3, Qh4+ =+)
11......., Qd4 =    (black picks up the e-pawn)
                 
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons 1.e4 e5
Reply #28 - 02/24/08 at 20:36:03
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Matemax wrote on 02/18/08 at 08:32:10:
Quote:
Finally, Matemax, if you know of a way to refute the Centre Game then I'm delighted for you. I don't suppose you would care to share your proposed route to an easy point? Perhaps Georgiev should hire you as his second... Wink

Touche!  Smiley

The critical position I am thinking about is: 
1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.Qxd4 Nc6 4.Qe3 Nf6 5.Nc3 Bb4 6.Bd2 O-O 7.O-O-O Re8 8.Qg3 Rxe4 9.a3 (as played in Greet-Georgiev):

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*

Black is a pawn up - on the other hand he has to develop the queenside and find more harmony for his pieces. White will start an attack on blacks king - therefore black will have to act fast. My conclusion would be: this position is dynamically balanced, but white has to prove his pawn sac.

Black either has to move the bishop (taking on c3 looks like giving white a "dangerous weapon") or the rook (to g4 attacking the queen). All these moves are given in NCO (p. 286, line 4) with at least a level game for black.

If you found an antidote against all these moves I will be deeply impressed, buy the book and start playing the center game...  Wink


Yes, Black has tried five different moves in this position. In the relevant chapter I offer specific recommendations against all of them, including numerous original suggestions and improvements over previously published theory. In each case the positions are complex and quite tricky for Black to handle. So in practical terms a well prepared white player should have excellent chances. Obviously if Black plays perfectly then I am not claiming an advantage (or even equality) for White, but that is hardly the purpose of a DW anyway.


Micawber - you are quite right about 6.Bd2?! d5! being good for Black, therefore I recommend 6.Bc4 0-0 7.Bd2. Now most games continue 7...d6, but your suggestion of 7...Ng4!? is certainly an interesting sideline. Here I recommend 8.Qe2 Ne5 9.0-0-0!?, not fearing the loss of the bishop pair, while Black can also try 8...Nd4!? 9.Qxg4 d5 10.Qh5! as in Varavin-Tjurin, Voronezh 2001. The position is rather unclear but I slightly prefer White's chances, and have backed this up with some analysis.


And finally Toppy - 7.e5 refers to the position after 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.Qxd4 Nc6 4.Qe3 g6 5.Nc3 Bg7 6.Bd2 Nf6. Here I prefer 7.0-0-0 over 7.e5.
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Dangerous Weapons 1.e4 e5  
Reply #27 - 02/24/08 at 18:59:43
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Don't get too excited, I don't have a full table of contents for this book, but what I do have are three more dangerous weapons that will feature in the book:

1) The rehabilitated Max Lange Attack

2)  The Crunching Koltanoski Attack

And for Black:

3) Violating the Vienna, which seemed to have  been snatched right off these forum threads. Here is the recommended Dangerous Weapon......drumb roll please.....:

1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 considered ?! or ? in many sources due to 4.Qg4! but now comes the shocker 4...Nd4, intending 5.Qxg7 Qf6!? with a largely untested position where Black has more comp for the pawn than is first apparent. 

Please note that the catchy titles of these Dangerous Weapons are my own invention and are not the chapter headings in the book, unless I get plagiarised of course.  Wink

This Dangerous Weapons series is reminiscent very much Jeroen Bosch's S.O.S books which both have the same objective. Ironically by publishing these lines you are in effect defeating the whole concept you are trying to promote, that is of a Secret Surprise Dangerous Weapon. Nevertheless the lines I have mentioned has certainly whet my appetite and I expect the book to sell extremely well.

While on the subject of Secret Weapons, I was following one of Fluffy's  tournament games recently which will probably feature in twic update number 694 or 695, which went as follows:

  1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Be2 e5 7.0-0 Nc6 8.d5 Ne7 9.Kh1 Nd7 10.g4!!
 
I almost fell out of my chair when I saw this, the move never even crossed my mind in this exact position, but once it is played you realise it is quite logical and dangerous. Of course I immediately fired up Chessbase and lo and behold its nothing new, but was a favorite weapon of Miles and Larsen. And here it was I thought I was familiar with all lines of the KID, but somehow this idea escaped my attention. To Fluffy's credit he recovered nicely from what surely seemed to have been a unpleasant shock for him as well, and after an exciting struggle the game was eventually drawn.   

Back to the topic of this thread, I wonder what other malevolent lines and ideas await readers of the eagerly anticipated Dangerous Weapons 1.e4 e5.

Toppy Smiley 

Postscript: Someone asked me a question yesterday on ICC while I was watching the Shirov vs Radjabov game, Linares 2008. I missed the question at the time, but the answer is yes.  Wink
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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TonyRo
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Re: Dangerous Weapons 1.e4 e5
Reply #26 - 02/22/08 at 04:15:51
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Does anyone have the table of contents for this bad boy yet?
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons 1.e4 e5  
Reply #25 - 02/21/08 at 11:40:09
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Maybe 6.Bc4 0-0 7.f3!?
  
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micawber
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Re: Dangerous Weapons 1.e4 e5
Reply #24 - 02/18/08 at 16:22:13
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I think that the main variation with 7.0-0-0, offers white sufficient OTB-variation after blacks acceptence of the pawn-sac.
If the compensation is sufficient in corr.play is another question.

However IMHO black can get a perfectly acceptable position,
(not an instant advantage though) playing 5...Be7.
In a previous thread we allready discussed that now
6.Bd2, d5 7.Nxd5, Nxd5 8.Qg3,Ncb4! (vintage Anand) might be unpleasant
news; while 8.Nxd5,Qxd5 black is at least equal.

I seem to remember that someone advocated
6.Bc4 as an improvement
but after 6..., 0-0 7.Bd2, Ng4 white has difficulty to find
a good home for his queen.
while after the more cautious 6....0-0, 7.Nf3
black might try 7...Bb4 or play 
7....Nb4 8.Bb3, d5 with equality.

I wonder what white's dangerous weapon against this variation is?  Huh
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons 1.e4 e5  
Reply #23 - 02/18/08 at 15:16:13
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IM Andrew Greet wrote on 02/17/08 at 23:07:33:
 
Wrong!  Smiley
I don't think 7.e5 is such a great move, and instead I recommend 7.0-0-0 which seems much more interesting as well as consistent with the general ethos of the Centre Game. I found some improvements over previously published analysis, and overall I regard the positions as quite promising for White.
As for Davies' recommendation of 4...g6, I also believe this to be quite dubious.

In fact, after thoroughly researching this opening, I have actually come to regard the entire 4...g6 variation as being somewhat overrated.

Finally, Matemax, if you know of a way to refute the Centre Game then I'm delighted for you. I don't suppose you would care to share your proposed route to an easy point? Perhaps Georgiev should hire you as his second... Wink


What is this 7.e5 line being referred to?

Toppy Smiley
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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ANDREW BRETT
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Re: Dangerous Weapons 1.e4 e5  
Reply #22 - 02/18/08 at 09:02:41
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I wonder if Andrew Greet now thinks the centre game is superior to the Worrall Ruy Lopez (only kidding). 

Anyone know what the contents of this book are - is there an off beat anti-Petroff, as I suspect a Mr. Anand might find this useful.
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons 1.e4 e5
Reply #21 - 02/18/08 at 08:32:10
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Quote:
Finally, Matemax, if you know of a way to refute the Centre Game then I'm delighted for you. I don't suppose you would care to share your proposed route to an easy point? Perhaps Georgiev should hire you as his second... Wink

Touche!  Smiley

The critical position I am thinking about is: 
1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.Qxd4 Nc6 4.Qe3 Nf6 5.Nc3 Bb4 6.Bd2 O-O 7.O-O-O Re8 8.Qg3 Rxe4 9.a3 (as played in Greet-Georgiev):

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*

Black is a pawn up - on the other hand he has to develop the queenside and find more harmony for his pieces. White will start an attack on blacks king - therefore black will have to act fast. My conclusion would be: this position is dynamically balanced, but white has to prove his pawn sac.

Black either has to move the bishop (taking on c3 looks like giving white a "dangerous weapon") or the rook (to g4 attacking the queen). All these moves are given in NCO (p. 286, line 4) with at least a level game for black.

If you found an antidote against all these moves I will be deeply impressed, buy the book and start playing the center game...  Wink
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons 1.e4 e5  
Reply #20 - 02/17/08 at 23:07:33
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Ametanoitos wrote on 02/17/08 at 18:08:35:
Actually i don't think that the Centre Game is a bad choice! I suspect that a few improvements could be found in old theory (the lines in NCO that  are =+) and i also think that Davies recomendation about g6 with Nge7 seems a little suspect to me.
 But. i think that the recomendation of Marin is very sound. I suppose that mr Greet then quotes Marin about B;ack having compensation for a pawn (in the main line which marin gives) but white has an extra pawn! Or am i wrong?


Wrong!  Smiley
I don't think 7.e5 is such a great move, and instead I recommend 7.0-0-0 which seems much more interesting as well as consistent with the general ethos of the Centre Game. I found some improvements over previously published analysis, and overall I regard the positions as quite promising for White.
As for Davies' recommendation of 4...g6, I also believe this to be quite dubious.

In fact, after thoroughly researching this opening, I have actually come to regard the entire 4...g6 variation as being somewhat overrated.

Finally, Matemax, if you know of a way to refute the Centre Game then I'm delighted for you. I don't suppose you would care to share your proposed route to an easy point? Perhaps Georgiev should hire you as his second... Wink
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons 1.e4 e5  
Reply #19 - 02/17/08 at 20:57:20
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Just for the sake of being repetitive,
does anyone know (guess) what material will be included
in DW?

A. Geet has already posted that there will 3 chapters on the Center Gambit (which by the way, is good news to me).
However, does it contain Spanish lines (for White as well as Black)?
and what about Sctich and Ponziani (for White?)

  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons 1.e4 e5  
Reply #18 - 02/17/08 at 18:08:35
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Actually i don't think that the Centre Game is a bad choice! I suspect that a few improvements could be found in old theory (the lines in NCO that  are =+) and i also think that Davies recomendation about g6 with Nge7 seems a little suspect to me.
  But. i think that the recomendation of Marin is very sound. I suppose that mr Greet then quotes Marin about B;ack having compensation for a pawn (in the main line which marin gives) but white has an extra pawn! Or am i wrong?
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons 1.e4 e5
Reply #17 - 02/04/08 at 13:56:06
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Wow! The centre game - I hope a lot of people will buy this book, desperatly play the centre game (instead of the ruy) and it gets me a lot of easy points with BLACK!  Grin
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons 1.e4 e5  
Reply #16 - 02/04/08 at 10:57:37
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Blimey - this Dangerous Weapons nonsense is getting out of hand! Perhaps they don't have the Centre Game in Bulgaria?
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons 1.e4 e5  
Reply #15 - 02/04/08 at 02:28:28
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You're quite right - I have no idea what he was talking about.  Huh
  
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