Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) The ...Na6 Classical.... (Read 8110 times)
jons
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Re: The ...Na6 Classical....
Reply #11 - 01/02/09 at 00:05:07
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About variation 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Be2 e5 7.0-0 Na6 8.Be3 Ng4 9.Bg5 Qe8 10.c5!? 

I have to say that after deep analysis (with databases, Fritz 10 or 11, I already do not remember) I found that the best move (of course in my opinion Smiley) for black is 10...h6. I analyzed all other moves until endgames or at least until moves 20-30 and I found this variation very difficult for black

My suggestion 10.c5!? h6!? 11.Bh4 exd4!? 12.Nxd4 (12.Nd5 is weaker now, do you know why? It is quite difficult to realize that  Wink) dxc5 13.Nb3 Qe6 14.Nd5 g5 15.Bg3 c6 16.h3 Ne5 17.f4 cxd5 18.exd5 Qd6 19.fxe5 Bxe5 20.Bxe5 Qxe5 and this is about drawish position (you just can believe me or analyze a bit, a pawn on d5 is strong so white has some compensation for a pawn, but not more). These all moves are best in my opinion  Cool

Best regards,
Jons
  
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jons
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Re: The ...Na6 Classical....
Reply #10 - 01/01/09 at 23:20:09
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To my opinion very strong is 
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. O-O Na6 8. Re1 c6 9.Be3!? with the idea of c5. I mean 9...Ng4 10.Bg5 Qe8 11.c5!? I analysed this position for a while and found it almost lost for black. So I have played in one game 9...Ng4 10.Bg5 f6!? 11.Bh4 exd4 and somehow I survived this position although it is quite tough for black (black has to play Nh6-f7 and stand a bit, look what white will do)  Undecided
  
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antistatic
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Re: The ...Na6 Classical....
Reply #9 - 10/28/08 at 20:30:16
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TonyRo wrote on 10/28/08 at 19:57:11:
Yeah, I analyzed this move a while back, and came to the conclusion that it was without question the best way to play for Black. The main lines with 10...exd4 look almost losing to me! Cheesy What about the other main line with 8. Re1 and 9. Bf1, does anyone have a recommendation here?


Is there something wrong with 8...c6 and 9...exd4 ?

Here is one example that I believe Gelfand analyzed:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. O-O Na6 8. Re1 c6 9. Bf1 exd4 10. Nxd4 Ng4 11. h3 Qb6 12. hxg4 Qxd4 13. Qf3 Qe5 14. g5 Qe7 15. Qg3 Nc5 16. Bf4 Be5 17. Rad1 f6 18. gxf6 Rxf6 19. Bxe5 Qxe5 20. b4 Nd7 21. c5 Qxg3 22. fxg3 Ne5 23. cxd6 Bg4 24. Be2 Bxe2 25. Rxe2 Rd8 =/+
  
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TonyRo
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Re: The ...Na6 Classical....
Reply #8 - 10/28/08 at 19:57:11
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Yeah, I analyzed this move a while back, and came to the conclusion that it was without question the best way to play for Black. The main lines with 10...exd4 look almost losing to me! Cheesy What about the other main line with 8. Re1 and 9. Bf1, does anyone have a recommendation here?
  
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Re: The ...Na6 Classical....
Reply #7 - 10/28/08 at 19:24:19
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Crapov wrote on 09/23/08 at 09:51:00:
TonyRo, in the Na6 system, White has an interesting option which I think Black has to prepare quite thorougly for: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Be2 e5 7.0-0 Na6 8.Be3 Ng4 9.Bg5 Qe8 and now 10.c5!? with a very complicated position
Games to study might be Chow-Vigorito Chicago 2007 and Marzolo-Motylev Dresden 2007 which both continued 10.-exd4 11.Nd5 Qxe4 12.Ne7+ (12.Bc4 Kh8!) Kh8 13.cxd6 (13.Nxc8 Nc5!?) Nc5!?
Very interesting stuff, in fact I think I'm off to study it closer!


I have to say that 10.c5 is an important move. How about 10...dxc5:

1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 g6 3. c4 Bg7 4. Nc3 d6 5. e4 O-O 6. Be2 Na6 7. O-O e5 8. Be3 Ng4 9. Bg5 Qe8 10. c5 dxc5!? 11. Nd5 (11. Bxa6 h6 12. Bh4 bxa6 13. Nd5 exd4 14. Nxc7 Qxe4 15. Nxa8 Qxa8 16. Be7 Re8 17. Bxc5 Bb7 18. Re1 Rd8 19. Nxd4 Ne5 20. Re3 Nc6=) h6 12. Bh4 g5 13. Bxa6 gxh4 14. Nxc7 Qc6 15. Nxa8 bxa6 16. d5 Qxa8 17. h3 Nf6 18. Re1 Qb8=
  
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TonyRo
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Re: The ...Na6 Classical....
Reply #6 - 10/04/08 at 16:03:13
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I've looked at your line for a couple of days and come up with absolutely no satisfactory line. Boo hoo for me. Back to the figurative drawing board. Cheesy
  
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Re: The ...Na6 Classical....
Reply #5 - 09/29/08 at 09:26:40
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TonyRo wrote on 09/22/08 at 00:52:45:

MAIN LINE 8. Re1 Qe8 

9. Bf1 Bg4 10. d5 Nb4

Chosen games --> Ftacnik - Fercec, It Op., '98



Thanks for the very interesting survey!  I have just started thinking about things from White's point of view, and for whatever reason was drawn first towards this line.

After 11.a3 Bxf3 12.gxf3 Na6 13. b4 Nh5 (this is still following Ftacnik - Fercec) it would seem that the plan in the game there is not very good for white, i.e., 14.c5 dxc5 15.Bxa6 Qe7 16.d6

First, giving up the lightsquared bishop will make White's defensive task much harder later, and trading it for the currently off-sides Black knight doesn't seem like a good deal.  After the resolving of the center following d6, White looks definitely worse, but I'm not sure if he has anything better to do.

I'd guess that White deviating on move 14 will turn out to be better...I don't have enough experience in these types of positions to have a good sense of what would be best.  14.Qa4 seems superficially plausible to me, since Black must either trade queens or get fairly distracted on the queenside, i.e.

14.Qa4 Qe7 15.Qb5 Rfb8 (15...Rab8? 16.Be3)

Any thoughts?  (Also, I haven't been following the KI threads at all, so if this is already covered elsewhere, please let me know.)
  
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TonyRo
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Re: The ...Na6 Classical....
Reply #4 - 09/23/08 at 14:27:37
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Ah Interesting! Thanks for tipping me off, and congrats on your first post!
  
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Crapov
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Re: The ...Na6 Classical....
Reply #3 - 09/23/08 at 09:51:00
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TonyRo, in the Na6 system, White has an interesting option which I think Black has to prepare quite thorougly for: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Be2 e5 7.0-0 Na6 8.Be3 Ng4 9.Bg5 Qe8 and now 10.c5!? with a very complicated position
Games to study might be Chow-Vigorito Chicago 2007 and Marzolo-Motylev Dresden 2007 which both continued 10.-exd4 11.Nd5 Qxe4 12.Ne7+ (12.Bc4 Kh8!) Kh8 13.cxd6 (13.Nxc8 Nc5!?) Nc5!?
Very interesting stuff, in fact I think I'm off to study it closer!
  
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TonyRo
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Re: The ...Na6 Classical....
Reply #2 - 09/22/08 at 15:17:57
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Thanks for the kind words Bibs. Interestingly, I just had a 15-minute game against an FM in the 8. Re1!? line just now. Here it is, any improvements would be great, since I was definitely worse at various points:

[Event "ICC 15 0"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2008.09.22"]
[White "AlonzoMosely"]
[Black "TonyRo"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "E91"]
[WhiteElo "2176"]
[BlackElo "2066"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 Na6 7. O-O e5 8. Re1 Qe8 9. Bf1 Bg4 10. d5 Nb4 11. a3 Bxf3 12. gxf3 Na6 13. b4 Nh5 14. Be3 f5  15. Na4 fxe4 16. fxe4 Nf4 17. c5 Qe7 18. Qg4 Nb8 19. Rac1 g5 20. cxd6 cxd6 21. Rc8 Nd7 22. Rc7 Nf6 23. Qe6+ Qxe6 24. dxe6 Nxe6 25. Bc4 d5 26. Rxg7+ Kxg7 27. exd5 Nf4 28. Nc5 N6xd5 29. Bxd5 Nxd5 30. Ne6+ Kf6 31. Nxf8 Rxf8 32. Bc1 Nf4 33. Rd1 Rc8 34. Be3 Rc3 35. h4 g4 36. Rd7 Rxa3 37. Rxb7 h5 38. Rxa7 Rb3 39. Rb7 Nd5 40. Bc5 Kf5 41. Rh7 Nf4 42. Rb7 Ne6 43. Be3 Nd4 44. Kf1 Rb1+ 45. Kg2 Nf3 46. Rc7 Rg1# {White checkmated} 0-1

One thing I took away from this game is that in these positions, ...f5 does almost nothing. Black's going to have to base his play off pieces, and probably forget about ...f5 for the time being. Also, c5-c6 is a huge threat in these lines because of the Bf1 eyeing the Na6, which I caught just in time. The best line for Black here is probably the very precise 14...Qe7! 15. c5!? bxc5! 16. Bxa6 cxb4! 17. axb4 bxa6 18. Bc5 Qh4! (18...Qg5+!?) 19. Bxf8 Bxf8 20. Ne2 Bxb4 21. Rf1 Qh3 22. Qd3 (22. Rxa6? Be7! -+) Be7 with compensation. If it's enough, I don't know, but it's certainly a mess! If White tries to stop 23...Bg5 with 23. Qe3, then 23...Qh4 persists with the idea. Good times!  Grin 

The work is already paying off....even though I was worse. Cheesy 

  
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Bibs
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Re: The ...Na6 Classical....
Reply #1 - 09/22/08 at 14:24:09
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Good research, good selection of games. Well done and thanks for that.

I also came to Na6 from Nc6. The latter was kinda viable when I was a young 'un playing all this nearly 20 years back, but too theory-heavy now as an occasional player.

8 Re1 suggest ...Bg4. An easier route than all the ...c6 stuff. And theoretically sound to boot.

If you are interested, Perelshteyn has a good couple of lectures on all this at chesslecture.com. Well worth a look.

  
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TonyRo
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The ...Na6 Classical....
09/22/08 at 00:52:45
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I realize this has probably been talked about quite a bit on this forum, but I'm going to start another thread about this line anyway.  Grin

I was bored today and decided that a switch to the ...Na6 lines was in order, given my frustration with various ...Nc6 lines. I started by just looking through some recent games to see if I even like the positions, which I do. Then I decided to just dig in and do some work and to map out a repertoire. Typing all of it would be ridiculous, but basically I just went through a database and for each line that was played a lot, I selected what I thought was a good enough / best line and then selected some thematic high level games and put them into Wordpad, and went through them, analyzing them for improvements and trying to learn from them. Here is a brief synopsis. The 8. Re1 lines look to be the most worrisome to me, and I would welcome any thoughts on my chosen lines, what you play, and any moves that I missed (I may just not have posted them here for length reasons)

After 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 0-0 6. Be2 e5 7. 0-0 Na6!?

MINOR LINES:

8. Bg5 h6 Chosen game --> Kreiman-Nakamura, Foxwoods '03

8. d5 Nc5 Chosen games -> Keene - Torre, Manila '79

8. dxe5    Chosen game --> Osthoff - Naumann, Bad Wiesse '03

8. Rb1      Chosen game --> Goriachnik - Poldauf Parnormo '01

MAIN LINE 8. Be3 Ng4 9. Bg5 Qe8 

10. dxe5 dxe5 11. h3 f6 

Chosen Games --> Harikrishna - Morabiabadi, Dubai, '04
                            Medvegy - Brandenburg, EU Champs, '06
                            Barus - Damljanovic, Bled Olymp., '02
                            Simutowe - Perelshteyn, New York, '03
                            Pacheco - Izoria, World Junior Champs., '03

10. dxe5 dxe5 11. Nd2 f6

Chosen games --> Schact - Perelshteyn, Foxwoods '07
                           Sasikiran - Mahadeo Thipsay, BPCL ch, '02

10. h3 f6

Chosen games --> Kadimova - Movesesian , Cappelle Open, '02

MAIN LINE 8. Re1 Qe8 

9. Bg5 c6

Chosen games --> Renet - Marc Degraeve, French Champs, '07

9. Bf1 Bg4 10. d5 Nb4

Chosen games --> Ftacnik - Fercec, It Op., '98
                           Illescas Cordoba-Gelfand, Wijk Aan Zee, '93
                           Korchnoi - Gelfand, Wijk Aan Zee, '93
                           Ivanchuk - Milov, EuT Champs., '01

I'm a little suspicious of 10...Nb4, but I wasn't sure if there was anything much better. Let me know what you guys think. 



  
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