ChessPub Forum - KIA vs The Sicilian

HoemberChess God Member Offline Posts: 512 Location: Lake d4 on Planet Chess Joined: 10/08/07 Gender:	Re: KIA vs The Sicilian Reply #11 - 05/03/11 at 08:41:55	Post Tools	Print Post
	Since my post, I have found Hannes Langrock's "Solid Line against the KIA [A05]" in CBM #118 (!?), the start position of which is exactly the one in question.

	as W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc) B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]\| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]\| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6\| 1Nf3:c5
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HoemberChess

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Re: KIA vs The Sicilian
Reply #10 - 05/02/11 at 15:07:57

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Hi to all,

There is this position, which I guess is of the King's Indian Attack.

Some of the move-orders through which I can reach it as Black:

Download game in pgn format

So, I can encounter this as Black.
Where can I study the plans from this exact position?

(I don't need advice on the rest of the repertoire draft, since I just included it for the sake of completeness.)

« Last Edit: 05/03/11 at 09:21:14 by HoemberChess »

as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5

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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: KIA vs The Sicilian Reply #9 - 01/28/09 at 02:45:16	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bc4 is actually a respectable setup, where White aims to play a sort of Pseudo Lopez against the Sicilian with moves such as 0-0, d3, Bb3, c3, Nbd2, etc. However, there Black has more than one way to equalise, if he has done some preparation for this.

	All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
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Dragan Glas Senior Member Offline "If I, like Solomon, ... could have my wish - " Posts: 424 Location: Ireland Joined: 06/25/06 Gender:	Re: KIA vs The Sicilian Reply #8 - 01/24/09 at 00:41:29	Post Tools	Print Post
	Greetings, Thanks for the link, kylemeister. Certainly one can play 2..., e6, allowing the "Pawn Fork Trick", for starters - but as a Dragon player, I still play 2..., d6. I normally follow up with Nf6/Bd7 and then .., Na5 as soon as possible, securing the bishop - it's amazing how many white players don't seem to consider this, as they play their "system" on autopilot. After that, it's very easy to play a Dragon set-up. Kindest regards, Dragan Glas


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kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4989 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: KIA vs The Sicilian Reply #7 - 01/23/09 at 23:56:37	Post Tools	Print Post
	Dragan Glas wrote on 01/23/09 at 23:43:49: Greetings, Talking of unusual lines... Apart from the above (and GPAs, as mentioned in another thread) I've been seeing a fair amount of 1.e4, c5; 2.Bc4 followed by d3, Nf3, Nbd2, etc., on FICS. Normally, I'd play a Dragon (2..., d6) or Accelerated Dragon (2...,g6) against 1.e4, but once I see 2.Bc4, I play 2..,Nc6 - just in case they go for 3.Qc3, which I've also faced on FICS! Sometimes I get 1.e4, c5; 2.Nf3, d6; and then 3.Bc4, when I play 3..., Nc6 as before. I've also had a Wing Gambit thrown at me by a 1800+ player. It seems hardly anyone's playing standard lines on FICS! Kindest regards, Dragan Glas The Little Old Man System will never die ... http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1170266680


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Dragan Glas Senior Member Offline "If I, like Solomon, ... could have my wish - " Posts: 424 Location: Ireland Joined: 06/25/06 Gender:	Re: KIA vs The Sicilian Reply #6 - 01/23/09 at 23:43:49	Post Tools	Print Post
	Greetings, Talking of unusual lines... Apart from the above (and GPAs, as mentioned in another thread) I've been seeing a fair amount of 1.e4, c5; 2.Bc4 followed by d3, Nf3, Nbd2, etc., on FICS. Normally, I'd play a Dragon (2..., d6) or Accelerated Dragon (2...,g6) against 1.e4, but once I see 2.Bc4, I play 2..,Nc6 - just in case they go for 3.Qc3, which I've also faced on FICS! Sometimes I get 1.e4, c5; 2.Nf3, d6; and then 3.Bc4, when I play 3..., Nc6 as before. I've also had a Wing Gambit thrown at me by a 1800+ player. It seems hardly anyone's playing standard lines on FICS! Kindest regards, Dragan Glas


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kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4989 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: KIA vs The Sicilian Reply #5 - 12/16/08 at 22:05:27	Post Tools	Print Post
	I would say that it isn't just "usually," but "always." Yes, 2. Ne2 could possibly lead to something like a Mar del Plata position with reversed colors, but that isn't really the same thing ...


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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: KIA vs The Sicilian Reply #4 - 12/16/08 at 21:43:54	Post Tools	Print Post
	2.Ne2!? looks like White's best try if he wishes to combine a g3 Open Sicilian with a KIA, although in the KIA the White knight always goes to f3. (Thanks Kylemeister) However, Black should be able to equalise with a quick ...d5 at some point, e.g. 2...Nc6 3.g3 d5 4.Bg2 de4 5.Nbc3 f5 (the less ambitious 5...Bf5 6.Ne4 e6 also seems sufficient for equality) 6.d3 ed3 7.Nf4 and now instead of 7...Nf6 as given Bangiev's 2005 Survey on 2.Ne2, I think Black should prefer 7...Qd7!? (suggested by Fritz; the idea is to prevent Bc6, doubling Black's pawns) 8.Nd3 c4 9.Nf4 (weaker is 9.Nc5 Qd1 10.Kd1 e5) Qd1 10.Kd1 e5 and the position is somewhere between dynamically balanced and slightly better for Black.
	« Last Edit: 12/17/08 at 06:10:48 by TN »
	All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
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naughtyknight Junior Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 72 Location: Shropshire Joined: 11/20/04	Re: KIA vs The Sicilian Reply #3 - 12/16/08 at 17:41:51	Post Tools	Print Post
	I agree, Stigma, I was wondering if there was indeed a move order which would be some sort of 'golden bullet' to align these two systems together in a coherent fashion, but it doesn't really look like it. The two systems do not seem to quite 'match up' as well as it appears...


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Stigma God Member Offline There is a crack in everything. Posts: 3277 Joined: 11/07/06 Gender:	Re: KIA vs The Sicilian Reply #2 - 12/15/08 at 10:01:47	Post Tools	Print Post
	Maybe 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 ~ 3.g3 is a more cunning move order than 2.g3. If 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3 then 3...d5! is there again and White has no time to get in both d3 and Nbd2 or Qe2. So after 2...e6 just go for the KIA directly with 3.d3 or 3.Qe2!?. On second thought, 2.Nf3 d6 3.g3 and 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.g3 can both be met by 3...e5 if Black is happy with a Botvinnik System against the KIA (and theoretically he should be). So I'm not sure how great this "trick" is. There is a related move order 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.Nc3 a6/Nc6 4.g3 where White delays d4 and may even omit it, but it's no longer strictly a KIA with the knight on c3.

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parisestmagique Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 473 Location: paris Joined: 01/24/06 Gender:	Re: KIA vs The Sicilian Reply #1 - 12/15/08 at 09:21:14	Post Tools	Print Post
	Do you mean 1.e4 c5 2.g3 the problem is d5!


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naughtyknight Junior Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 72 Location: Shropshire Joined: 11/20/04	KIA vs The Sicilian 12/14/08 at 18:14:03	Post Tools	Print Post
	Just out of interest, has anyone considered combining a repertoire of KIA lines with Nigel Davies 'Taming the Sicilian' repertoire of fianchetto lines in the open Sicilian? Seems like an interesting 'move order' trick. Does anyone on the forum employ it?


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