Normal Topic Dutch studying Clarification (Read 7112 times)
Dean
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Re: Dutch studying Clarification
Reply #9 - 09/14/09 at 20:51:03
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Bowen wrote on 07/01/09 at 22:47:04:
I am just starting out with an incursion into the field of the Classical Dutch and had a few questions for the seasoned pros on this site. I am readying myself for a couple of tournaments coming up this August, so I should have some time to study up.

I have picked up the following books and am in need of some suggestions on how to narrow down my study time: The Stonewall Dutch, by Aagard; Win with the Stonewall Dutch; The Classical Dutch, by Pinski; Play the Classical Dutch, by Williams, and Starting Out: The Dutch Defence, by McDonald. Which books should I focus on (each seems to have their respective strengths), Pinski is from 2002 but seems to have some good games. The ebook on this site is dated 2004 and is based on Pinski; Williams is quite invigorating but seems to contain fewer games. The two stonewall books just arrived two days ago so I haven't had time to look at them. McDonald's Starting Out... I have read through and like quite a bit, but it too is several years out of date.

The reason I chose the Classical Dutch to play was due to its slower evolving theory and thus less study time as it is away from the field of "constant updates". According to McDonald it is necessary for all Dutch Classical players to know the transpositional possibilities into the Stonewall. Therefore I need to study/prepare for the Classical and the Stonewall. Any suggestions, I don't wish to study a line in depth then find 7. Ne4 is passe and 7. a5 is really the way to go.

Also, as I will be traveling out of town and traveling light, which books shouls I necessarily bring?

Thank you for your help in this matter, Bowen


My favourite Dutch book is still Bellin's "Winning with the Dutch". It is from 1990 and of course a bit outdated, but much of the content holds up surprisingly well. If you can find it for like 5$, go for it as complement.

Of the more modern alternatives, I definitely prefer Williams' book to Pinski's, the games you can find in the DB:s. In general the Classical Dutch theory is not that developed, so own analysis with Rybka 3 makes sense as complement.

This forum also contains hot material, for example about the critical 7...Ne4 8.Nxe4 which gives black some headache (and which Williams dismisses to superficially).
  
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Re: Dutch studying Clarification
Reply #8 - 09/14/09 at 19:57:31
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I use the ...Bb4 approach regularly, and the exchange on c3 makes the development easier for Black.  Plus, Black doesn't necessarily have to commit to attacking on the kingside.  There have been quite a few times I have went to the queenside for battle, but all too often there is room for attack on the kingside.  This also goes for playing 1. f4, of course.  And then, I find myself often (recently) playing h3-g4 with a pawn assault on the kingside.   

Of course, looking at ...Ne4, if NxN, then recapturing with the pawn fixes White's pawn structure and allows Black to prepare an attack.  Many times when White players would capture the Ne4, after fxe4 Black not only has an open f-file, but after preparing his pieces, e5! will open the lines of attack for the queen bishop.   

But as far as ...Nc6 goes, I am not sure that I agree totally with the piece landing on a6.  I can either play ...Qe8 and then ...Nc6, leaving d8 open for the knight, or I can play ...Na5/...c5/...b6/...Nb7 and reactivate my knight that way, while at the same time gaining some queenside space.   And if White does not fight back immediately, then ...e5 is in the mix.
  
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Re: Dutch studying Clarification
Reply #7 - 07/13/09 at 23:44:28
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Thanks for the advice, Markovich. Any and all suggetions are appreciated. I have enjoyed your posts on the Alekhine's Defence and the respect accorded you by John Watson, so when you suggest a line in the Dutch I am going to take it seriously!

Casper, I picked up the Leningrad DVD some time ago. It is a good introduction, but my knowledge of the Dutch is so limits I don't feel comfortable commenting on it. If you scroll back through the threads you should find a lot of comments from "Experts" on this site regarding the DVD!
  
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Re: Dutch studying Clarification
Reply #6 - 07/10/09 at 14:09:45
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If I were playing the IZ for the first time, I would concentrate key games and variations with ...Qe8 and ...a5, particularly some of the pawn sac ideas with ...e6-e5.  ...Nc6 is sometimes difficult to play, and this piece often goes to a6.  All this was Iljin-Zhenevsky's original conception, and I think it would be important to understand before looking at early ...Ne4 ideas.  Be cautious about playing ...Qh5 with White's queen on d1 or e2, since it often just leads to an exchange of queens, which typically favors White.

 
  

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Re: Dutch studying Clarification
Reply #5 - 07/10/09 at 13:31:45
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Tks Bowen for the post as I am also going to try the Dutch for the first time I really appreciated what you asked.
Are the DVDs from Andrew Martin worth the money? The 2 dvds are "ABC of the Anti-Dutch" and "ABC of the Leningrad Dutch"
Thank you
  
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Re: Dutch studying Clarification
Reply #4 - 07/03/09 at 02:21:44
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Good point, the Williams book responds to "Alekhine's...Ne4" that you suggest with four possible 7th move responses by White, of these two flow directly into the Stonewall with an early ...d5. Since I plopped down good $$ for Win with the Stonewall, I might as well give it a perusal nonetheless.
  
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Re: Dutch studying Clarification
Reply #3 - 07/03/09 at 01:55:51
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I don't frown about it. For what it wants to be it is good enough: an introduction. I just don't agree with this:

Bowen wrote on 07/01/09 at 22:47:04:
According to McDonald it is necessary for all Dutch Classical players to know the transpositional possibilities into the Stonewall.


In general I am opposed to studying many subjects at the same time. It leads to superficiality and perhaps even confusion. I have been playing the Iljin-Zjenevsky for more than 10 years and only now expand my horizon with the ...Bb4 variations.
The point is this. McDonald is a GM. I am not, my Dutch OTB-rating is about 1800. So opening knowledge for me has other demands than for McDonald. I am very sure that on McDonald's level a detailed understanding of all the transpositions and choices is mandatory.
But for me? I play f5, Nf6, e6, Be7, 0-0, d6 in some move order, then decide between ...Ne4, Nc6, a5 or Qe8. I know that it is my task to develop my Queen's wing and to prepare ...e5. Also I have analysed the critical lines as good as I can.
Keith Hayward earned titles both in OTB- and corr. chess with this approach.

You might play quickly through the games of the McDonald book. Then decide what setup you like best and make a thorough study of that one. If it's not the Stonewall I - and a few others - may help you pointing at the critical lines. If it will be the Stonewall there will be other others.  Wink
  

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Re: Dutch studying Clarification
Reply #2 - 07/02/09 at 02:01:54
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Thank you for your speedy and thorough reply. I am not a big fan of McDonald's Starting Out: The Dutch Defense, because he makes a difficult, or better still challenging, opening to be fairly straightforward. This may instill confidence in the user, but after a few early setbacks may leave him/her having self-doubts as to why such a simple opening could not yield better results, leaving him to doubt his own abilities.
If this is why you are not that big on him then we are in agreement. Otherwise I would like to know what it is about the book you frown upon.

Cheers, Bowen
  
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Re: Dutch studying Clarification
Reply #1 - 07/02/09 at 00:35:50
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Frankly I don't agree with McDonald. Of course it is useful to 1)know the three or four different Classical Dutch setups and 2)know when to play which one.
The problem is that all these setups are quite different of nature. And I don't think it handy for patzers like us to do so much work. So my advise is to focus on either the Iljin-Zjenevsky or the Stonewall or the combination of Alekhine's ...Ne4 and the ...Bb4 variation.
Don't bother about lines being passe. You will have to do your own work anyway, preferably by analysing games from a database.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Bowen
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Dutch studying Clarification
07/01/09 at 22:47:04
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I am just starting out with an incursion into the field of the Classical Dutch and had a few questions for the seasoned pros on this site. I am readying myself for a couple of tournaments coming up this August, so I should have some time to study up.

I have picked up the following books and am in need of some suggestions on how to narrow down my study time: The Stonewall Dutch, by Aagard; Win with the Stonewall Dutch; The Classical Dutch, by Pinski; Play the Classical Dutch, by Williams, and Starting Out: The Dutch Defence, by McDonald. Which books should I focus on (each seems to have their respective strengths), Pinski is from 2002 but seems to have some good games. The ebook on this site is dated 2004 and is based on Pinski; Williams is quite invigorating but seems to contain fewer games. The two stonewall books just arrived two days ago so I haven't had time to look at them. McDonald's Starting Out... I have read through and like quite a bit, but it too is several years out of date.

The reason I chose the Classical Dutch to play was due to its slower evolving theory and thus less study time as it is away from the field of "constant updates". According to McDonald it is necessary for all Dutch Classical players to know the transpositional possibilities into the Stonewall. Therefore I need to study/prepare for the Classical and the Stonewall. Any suggestions, I don't wish to study a line in depth then find 7. Ne4 is passe and 7. a5 is really the way to go.

Also, as I will be traveling out of town and traveling light, which books shouls I necessarily bring?

Thank you for your help in this matter, Bowen
  
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