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Funny Opening Transpositions (Read 9815 times)

Smyslov_Fan God Member Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: Funny Opening Transpositions Reply #21 - 07/21/10 at 06:56:31	Post Tools	Print Post
	Gambit wrote on 07/21/10 at 06:29:03: 1 e4 Nf6 (Alekhine's Defence) 2 Nc3 d5 3 e4 (Inviting the Hubsch Gambit after 3...Nxe4 4 Nxe4 de4 5 Bf4) 3...de4 4 f3 (Blackmar-Diemer Gambit) A note: 1 d4 d5 2 e4 is not the BDG. The right move sequence is 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 Gambit is right, 2.e4 isn't a BDG (Black can play 2...e6, for instance and White can still choose a sane opening), but after his continuation, it is. Isn't it?


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Gambit God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing .com! Posts: 1397 Location: Newark Joined: 07/26/05 Gender:	Re: Funny Opening Transpositions Reply #20 - 07/21/10 at 06:29:03	Post Tools	Print Post
	1 e4 Nf6 (Alekhine's Defence) 2 Nc3 d5 3 e4 (Inviting the Hubsch Gambit after 3...Nxe4 4 Nxe4 de4 5 Bf4) 3...de4 4 f3 (Blackmar-Diemer Gambit) A note: 1 d4 d5 2 e4 is not the BDG. The right move sequence is 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3


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TalJechin God Member Offline There is no secret ingredient. Posts: 2892 Location: Malmö Joined: 08/12/04 Gender:	Re: Funny Opening Transpositions Reply #19 - 07/16/10 at 15:06:08	Post Tools	Print Post
	TN wrote on 07/16/10 at 14:46:35: 7.Nc3 is dubious; White should prefer 7.Nf3 g6 8.Bd3 Bg7 9.0-0 0-0 10.a4 Re8 11.Na3! when White is slightly better. and 7...Qe7 is no good?


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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: Funny Opening Transpositions Reply #18 - 07/16/10 at 14:46:35	Post Tools	Print Post
	7.Nc3 is dubious; White should prefer 7.Nf3 g6 8.Bd3 Bg7 9.0-0 0-0 10.a4 Re8 11.Na3! when White is slightly better.

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TalJechin God Member Offline There is no secret ingredient. Posts: 2892 Location: Malmö Joined: 08/12/04 Gender:	Re: Funny Opening Transpositions Reply #17 - 07/16/10 at 14:42:01	Post Tools	Print Post
	TN wrote on 07/16/10 at 13:52:49: After 3...a6, White should keep an edge with 4.Nd2 when 4...b5 5.e4 bc4 6.Bc4 is comfortably better for White (usually Black has played ...d6 instead of the worse than useless ...a6), whilst 4...e6 5.e4 d6 6.Bd3 ed5 7.ed5 also feels a bit better for White. 4.Qc2 intending 4...e6 5.e4 ed5 6.cd5 b5?! 7.a4! could be even better. 4.Nd2 looks clumsy to me. It's been tried once in corr though when black changed system again: [Event "?"] [Date "1989.??.??"] [White "Hoedl-Schlehhofer Prof Josef "] [Black "Sommerbauer Dr Norbert (AUT)"] [WhiteElo "2324"] [BlackElo "2397"] [EventDate "1989.??.??"] 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 a6 4. Nd2 e5 5. e4 d6 6. Bd3 Be7 7. Ngf3 O-O 8. O-O Nh5 9. Re1 g6 10. Nf1 Ng7 11. Bd2 Nd7 12. g4 Nf6 13. h3 h5 14. N3h2 hxg4 15. hxg4 Nh7 16. Ng3 Bg5 17. Kg2 Bxd2 18. Qxd2 Qg5 19. Qxg5 Nxg5 (1/2-1/2, 68) 4.Qc2 looks more normal, but haven't been tried in corr (only 77 games with 3...a6). Assuming Black is content with any Benoni, why not play 4...e6 5.e4 exd5 6.cxd5 d6 7.Nc3 g6 - ? I'm no expert on the Benonis, but hasn't white's early Qc2 limited his options here?


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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: Funny Opening Transpositions Reply #16 - 07/16/10 at 13:52:49	Post Tools	Print Post
	After 3...a6, White should keep an edge with 4.Nd2 when 4...b5 5.e4 bc4 6.Bc4 is comfortably better for White (usually Black has played ...d6 instead of the worse than useless ...a6), whilst 4...e6 5.e4 d6 6.Bd3 ed5 7.ed5 also feels a bit better for White. 4.Qc2 intending 4...e6 5.e4 ed5 6.cd5 b5?! 7.a4! could be even better.

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TalJechin God Member Offline There is no secret ingredient. Posts: 2892 Location: Malmö Joined: 08/12/04 Gender:	Re: Funny Opening Transpositions Reply #15 - 07/16/10 at 13:43:16	Post Tools	Print Post
	One of Rolf Martens' many ideas in the Benoni in addition to 2...a6, was the Kamchatka Gambit 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 a6 4.Nc3 b5 - iirc against 4.a4 instead he wanted to go into 'an improved Snake Benoni' (another of his inventions) with 4...e6/4...e5 and then Bd6-c7-a5. Not sure what exactly is improved with a6/a4 in, but it struck me that there may be a whole host of other off-beat Benonis showing up here, for example, could a Geier be one of them? i.e: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 a6 4.a4 Ne4!?


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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: Funny Opening Transpositions Reply #14 - 07/16/10 at 13:18:24	Post Tools	Print Post
	agropop wrote on 07/16/10 at 12:38:03: Bonsai wrote on 07/15/10 at 07:27:39: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 a6 3.a4 looks a bit silly, but could be a reasonably good try. As I understand it going into Benoni or King's Indian positions is now no longer that attractive for black. Thus, black will presumably go for 3...e6 either with 4....d5 or 4...Bb4 to follow. That certainly makes some sense due to the weakened b4 square, but perhaps white can show that ...a4 is more useful than ...a6. Any thoughts? I wonder about 3...e5 (3...e6 should be quite healthy, it's a nimzo or bogoindian with a3 ruled out forever) 4. de5 Ne4 as a improved version of fajarowic... Most funny (almost stupid) transposition i had in my games was 1.e4 e6 2. Qe2 e5 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.Qd1??! and I played 4...f5 and it's a Viena game! The Fajarowicz isn't a good opening, but with a4 thrown it, this line becomes entirely acceptable. If White plays 5.Nd2, then 5...Bb4 looks good enough for equality.

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agropop Junior Member Offline Use your brain Posts: 51 Location: Madrid Joined: 04/13/10 Gender:	Re: Funny Opening Transpositions Reply #13 - 07/16/10 at 12:38:03	Post Tools	Print Post
	Bonsai wrote on 07/15/10 at 07:27:39: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 a6 3.a4 looks a bit silly, but could be a reasonably good try. As I understand it going into Benoni or King's Indian positions is now no longer that attractive for black. Thus, black will presumably go for 3...e6 either with 4....d5 or 4...Bb4 to follow. That certainly makes some sense due to the weakened b4 square, but perhaps white can show that ...a4 is more useful than ...a6. Any thoughts? I wonder about 3...e5 (3...e6 should be quite healthy, it's a nimzo or bogoindian with a3 ruled out forever) 4. de5 Ne4 as a improved version of fajarowic... Most funny (almost stupid) transposition i had in my games was 1.e4 e6 2. Qe2 e5 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.Qd1??! and I played 4...f5 and it's a Viena game!


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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: Funny Opening Transpositions Reply #12 - 07/16/10 at 07:52:45	Post Tools	Print Post
	@MNb Thanks, now corrected. @parisestmagique According to an article in SOS 2 by Jeroen Bosch, White keeps a tiny edge with 4.d3, intending to play as in a KIA with Nf3, g3 and Bg2. Instead 3...Nd7 is probably Black's clearest equaliser. I've tried 2.Nc3 myself with good results but I'd recommend 2.ed5 Qd5 3.Nf3 followed by Be2, d4 and c4 in some order instead. Black has to know what he is doing to avoid reaching a passive position out of the opening.

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parisestmagique Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 473 Location: paris Joined: 01/24/06 Gender:	Re: Funny Opening Transpositions Reply #11 - 07/16/10 at 07:36:57	Post Tools	Print Post
	I hate playing against the Scandinavian so i thought i was clever with : 1.e4 d5 2.Nc3 but ... dxe4 3.Nxe4 Qd5! and 4.Nc3 Qa5 (or Qd6/Qd8) is the main Scandinavian line ...


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10778 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Funny Opening Transpositions Reply #10 - 07/16/10 at 03:03:12	Post Tools	Print Post
	TN wrote on 07/16/10 at 02:13:28: 1.c3 (Saragossa Opening) 1...c5 2.e4 (Alapin Sicilian) 2...e6 3.d4 d5 4.e5 (French Advance) 4...Ne7 5.Nf3 Nec6 6.Nd2 Nd7 (Tarrasch French, but where it's White's turn to move, not Black's) The transposition is funny, that's for sure, but 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.c3 c5 6.Ngf3 Nc6 sees also White to move.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: Funny Opening Transpositions Reply #9 - 07/16/10 at 02:13:28	Post Tools	Print Post
	Seth_Xoma wrote on 07/15/10 at 23:19:13: I'm enjoying this thread. Here's another one from a tournament I played last year (I was white): 1.d4 g6 So it appears we'll have maybe a KID, or some offbeat variation. 2.e4 Bg7 Switching to the Modern defense, an opening more often associated with 1.e4. 3.Nc3 c5 Clearly hoping for the unusual 4.dxc5 Bxc3 line. 4.Nf3!? cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nc6 Voila! An Accelerated Dragon. Then after 6.Be3 Nf6 7.Bc4 d6 8.f3 0-0 9.Qd2 you have a Yugoslav Attack. Another opening transposition: 1.c3 (Saragossa Opening) 1...c5 2.e4 (Alapin Sicilian) 2...e6 3.d4 d5 4.e5 (French Advance) 4...Ne7 5.Nf3 Nec6 6.Nd2 Nd7 (Tarrasch French) 1.d4 d5 (Queen's Pawn Opening) 2.e4 (Blackmar-Diemer Gambit) Nc6 (Nimzowitsch Defence) 3.Nc3 e6 (French Defence, Nimzowitsch Variation).
	« Last Edit: 07/16/10 at 07:50:02 by TN »
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Seth_Xoma God Member Offline FM with 2 IM Norms - (2381) Posts: 558 Location: Lansing Joined: 11/05/04 Gender:	Re: Funny Opening Transpositions Reply #8 - 07/15/10 at 23:19:13	Post Tools	Print Post
	I'm enjoying this thread. Here's another one from a tournament I played last year (I was white): 1.d4 g6 So it appears we'll have maybe a KID, or some offbeat variation. 2.e4 Bg7 Switching to the Modern defense, an opening more often associated with 1.e4. 3.Nc3 c5 Clearly hoping for the unusual 4.dxc5 Bxc3 line. 4.Nf3!? cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nc6 Voila! An Accelerated Dragon.


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TalJechin God Member Offline There is no secret ingredient. Posts: 2892 Location: Malmö Joined: 08/12/04 Gender:	Re: Funny Opening Transpositions Reply #7 - 07/15/10 at 09:33:10	Post Tools	Print Post
	LeeRoth wrote on 07/15/10 at 06:39:45: What are you supposed to do as White against 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 a6!? Is there any way to take advantage of Black's casual second move? 3.Nc3 c5 4.d5 b5 5.cxb5 axb5 6.e4 b4 7.Nb5 d6 is the Zaitsev Variation of the Benko 3.Nf3 c5 4.d5 e6 5.a4 exd5 6.cxd5 d6 7.Nc3 g6 8.e4 Bg4 is a Benoni 3.Nf3 c5 4.g3 cxd4 5.Nxd4 e6 6.Bg2 Qc7 is an English http://www.google.se/#hl=sv&source=hp&q=site%3Achesspub.com+%221.d4+Nf6+2.c4+a6%...


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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: Funny Opening Transpositions Reply #6 - 07/15/10 at 07:49:06	Post Tools	Print Post
	Neither 3.g3 nor 3.a4 gives White any advantage. White should play 3.Nc3 c5 4.dc5! e6 5.e4 Bc5 6.e5 with the advantage.

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Bonsai God Member Offline Posts: 622 Joined: 03/13/04 Gender:	Re: Funny Opening Transpositions Reply #5 - 07/15/10 at 07:27:39	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 a6 3.a4 looks a bit silly, but could be a reasonably good try. As I understand it going into Benoni or King's Indian positions is now no longer that attractive for black. Thus, black will presumably go for 3...e6 either with 4....d5 or 4...Bb4 to follow. That certainly makes some sense due to the weakened b4 square, but perhaps white can show that ...a4 is more useful than ...a6. Any thoughts?


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Vandros Junior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 71 Joined: 07/18/09	Re: Funny Opening Transpositions Reply #4 - 07/15/10 at 06:45:12	Post Tools	Print Post
	LeeRoth wrote on 07/15/10 at 06:39:45: What are you supposed to do as White against 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 a6!? Is there any way to take advantage of Black's casual second move? Maybe 3.g3


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LeeRoth God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 1520 Joined: 10/22/05	Re: Funny Opening Transpositions Reply #3 - 07/15/10 at 06:39:45	Post Tools	Print Post
	What are you supposed to do as White against 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 a6!? Is there any way to take advantage of Black's casual second move? 3.Nc3 c5 4.d5 b5 5.cxb5 axb5 6.e4 b4 7.Nb5 d6 is the Zaitsev Variation of the Benko 3.Nf3 c5 4.d5 e6 5.a4 exd5 6.cxd5 d6 7.Nc3 g6 8.e4 Bg4 is a Benoni 3.Nf3 c5 4.g3 cxd4 5.Nxd4 e6 6.Bg2 Qc7 is an English


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TalJechin God Member Offline There is no secret ingredient. Posts: 2892 Location: Malmö Joined: 08/12/04 Gender:	Re: Funny Opening Transpositions Reply #2 - 07/14/10 at 00:54:37	Post Tools	Print Post
	One of my corr draws for the chesspub team this year started like this: 1.c4 English Opening (he'd probably prepared something for 1...f5, as he'd previously only played 1.d4) 2...c6 How about a Slav instead? 2.e4 d5 Caro-Kann it is. 3.exd5 Nf6 4.d4 cxd5 CK Panov var. 5.Nc3 e6 6.Nf3 Bb4 7.cxd5 Nxd5 8.Qc2 Nc6 9.Be2 Nce7 and now I label it a Nimzo Indian - since that was what I intended/hoped to play against 1.d4


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10778 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Funny Opening Transpositions Reply #1 - 07/14/10 at 00:23:38	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.e4 Nf6 (Alekhine Defence) 2.Nc3 e5 (Vienna) 3.Nf3 Nc6 (Four Knights) 4.Bb5 d6 (Ruy Lopez, Steinitz Variation). 1.f4 (Bird) c5 2.e4 (Sicilian Grand Prix) Nc6 3.Nc3 e6 4.Nf3 a6 5.d4 cxd4 6.Nxd4 (Paulsen/Kan) d6 7.Be3 Nf6 8.Be2 (Classical Scheveningen).

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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Seth_Xoma God Member Offline FM with 2 IM Norms - (2381) Posts: 558 Location: Lansing Joined: 11/05/04 Gender:	Funny Opening Transpositions 07/13/10 at 19:29:12	Post Tools	Print Post
	Anyone have any bizarre experiences they'd like to share? Today I was playing Black in an internet blitz game, and it began thusly: 1.d4 e6 Lately, I've been experimenting with the Dutch. 2.Nf3 c5 I've played this guy before, and after 2...f5 he'd answer with 3.Bg5 Be7 4.h4. We played a few games like this and I wanted something different this time. 3.c3 I thought maybe we'd get a transposition to an English or Benoni maybe...but OK, now it looks as though we're headed for a London. 3...Nc6 4.e4 d5 At this point, I cannot figure out which one of us is getting confused more. 5.e5 Qb6 ...and presto! A game which opened with 1.d4, then appeared to be headed for an English, no maybe a Benoni, uh no, perhaps a London then went into an Advanced French.


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