tony37 wrote on 11/26/12 at 16:15:10:


This looks like a better chance for White to secure a plus---but Black has reasonable prospects to equalize.

13.Nc4 looks equal [/quote]

After considerable time and effort to examine this critical variation, it looks like Black has real winning chances. Here is one plausible line:

13.Nc4 Nxc4 14.Bxc4 Qh4 15.Bxd5ch cxd5 16.h3 Qf4 17.g3 Qg5 18.Qf3 f4 19.g4 h5 20.Nc3 hxg4 21.Qxd5ch Qxd5 22.Nxd5 Bb7! 23.c4 gxh3 24.Kh2 Rae8 25.Rxe8 Rxe8 26.Kxh3 f3! 27.d3 Bc8ch 28.Kh4 Kf7 29.Bf4 g5ch 30.Kxg5 Rg8ch 31.Kh5 Rh8ch 32.Kg5 Bf8 33.Be5 Bh6ch 34.Kh4 Bg7ch 35.Kg3 Bxe5ch -/+

sloughter wrote on 11/25/12 at 16:54:44:

There's also 12.Rxe5...

Antigoon wrote on 09/12/11 at 18:05:43:


Great idea Stefan! You have convinced me that 8.Qf3 is better than 8.Bd3. After 8...Nd5 9.Nf3 Bd6 10.O-O O-O 11.Re1 f5!! Black seems to have a winning attack in all variations!

I suggest one alternative to your move order:

8.Bd3 Nd5 9.Nf3 Bd6 10.O-O O-O 11.Re1 f5!! 12.Nxe5 Qf6 13.Nf3 g5 14.c3 g4 15.Nd4 Qh6 16.g3 f4! (Stefan, isn’t this stronger than Nf4?) 17.Re4 (Re2 is no better---there are many variations but with best play Black seems to be winning in all of them. Here is just one plausible move order.) c5 18.b4 fxg3! 19.Rxg4ch Bxg4 20.Qxg4ch Kh8 21.fxg3 Rae8 22.Nf5 (Nf3 Nc6! is no better---Black is attacking with all his pieces while the White Queenside is inert) Re1ch 23.Kg2 Qf6 24.bxa5 Rg8 25.Qf3 Nf4ch -+

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 09/12/11 at 18:39:09:


We see a high level test of 8.Bd3 in McShane-Gupta, Reykjavik, 2011: 8.Bd3 Nd5 9.Nf3 Bd6?! (I don’t like this move because it makes the capture on d3 a lesser problem for White because the Queen is shielded from the d3 square) 10.O-O Nf4 11.Re1?! 

Critical is 11.Nc3 Nxd3 (O-O 12.Be2 +/=) 12.cxd3 O-O 13.Ne4 Bc7 (Be7 14.Nxe5 +/=) 14.Qc2 Qe7 15.Rb1 f5 16.Nc5 Nb7 17.Nxb7 Bxb7 18.Re1 Qf7 19.b4 Rae8 20.Qc4 Bd6 21.a3 +/=

OK, i studied those positions and i got my conclusions and i want to share them with you

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Na5 6.Bb5+ c6 7.dxc6 bxc6 8.Bd3

8.Qf3?! Be7! and 8.Be2 h6 9.Nf3 (9.Nh3 Bd6!) e4 10.Ne5 Qd4! are fine for Black

8...Nd5! 9.Nf3

I already shared my thoughts on the "shaky" 9.h4?!

9...Bd6! 10.O-O Nf4!

I think that after 10...O-O White has good chances for a theoretical edge. For example 11.Re1 f5 has been the original proposal on this thread but after 12.Rxe5!? i would take White even though i am not 100% sure at present if he is really better. I feel that he is. 
    On the other hand Houdini's first choice is 11...Bg4 12.h3 Bxf3 13.Qxf3 f5 14.Bxf5 Qe7 (in order to play ...g6 without allowing Be6+) but now 15.Qe4!? (i don't know if this is best but i discovered that it is at least very challenging) 15...g6 16.Bxg6 hxg6 17.Qxg6 Qg7 18.Qxg7 and it is impossible for Houdini to evaluate correctly that the 4 pawns will prove to be better than the Knight in the long run!
   In the recent CBM article by Kritz he gives as his "absolute main line" the variation: 11...Re8 12.Nc3 f5 (if i am not mistaken this was proposed by Toppy some time back as good for Black and it was for sure Stohl's suggestion in an older CBM article). Now Kritz gives: 13.Nxd5! cxd5 14.Bb5 Bd7 15.Bxd7 Qxd7 16.d3 Nc6 17.c3! (instead 17.c4 which has been seen in practice) with "+/=". I found it hard to believe at first but i have found nothing to shake this evaluation till now. So, i turn to my main suggestion.

11.Re1 Nxd3 12.cxd3 O-O and now both 13.Nc3 and 13.Nxe5 can be met by the same move: 13...c5!. I think that Black's game is very simple here and the idea of Nc6+Bg4 is very strong and gives at least equal chances (and i say this after many hours of analysis!). I don't want to bother you by giving you many lines to "disturb" your eyes now, but i leave you work on this position for some time and then i am ready to discuss any ideas.

On the other hand Kasparov's 13...Re8 (after 13.Nc3 {"!"}, Kritz) cannot be bad after Short's awfull 14.h3?, but what about 14.Ne4! ? 13...f6 is another idea but, really it cannot be compared with the effectiveness of 13...c5!

At the start of this thread a line was proposed: 8...h6 9.Ne4 10.Nd5 followed by ...g6 etc. Both Kritz and Stohl give convincing analysis claiming that White is better here. Can you prove that it is playable after all for Black?
 

I played the position after 9.h4 in my PC for 15 min and i was surprized to see its evaluation dropping fast after sensible moves for Black. For example:

9...Nf4 10.Bf1 h6 (9...h6 is met by 10.Qh5! but this is impossible with the K on f4 of course) 11.Nf3 Bd6 12.d4!? exd4 13.Qxd4 Ne6 14.Qc3 O-O 15.Bd3/Be2 c5 and i cannot see why Black shouldn't be at least equal here having excellent comp for his pawn

9...Be7 10.Qf3 f5 11.Bxf5 Rf8 12.Qh5 g6 13.Bxg6 hxg6 14.Qxg6 Kd7 with the idea Kb7-Rb8-Ka8 and it seems that Black can play for a slight edge if somebody can!

As for 9.Nf3 Bd6 10.O-O 11.Re1 how about 11...Bg4!?

@Mark: Sorry for the off-topic question, but where i can find some interesting discussions here for the d4 lines of the Two Knighs Defense? (That variation where ...Qa5 was supposed to be better than the recommended ...Qh5 defense, i think that you understand about what position i am talking about!). Or, what defense do you believe that is best for Black there?

PatzerNoster wrote on 09/14/11 at 23:43:01:


Is this so scary?