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1. d4 c5? (Read 5775 times)

Smyslov_Fan God Member Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: 1. d4 c5? Reply #10 - 10/22/05 at 00:37:05	Post Tools	Print Post
	I once did a data search on this move order, and one surprisingly successful idea for Black after 2.d5 was to transpose into the Dutch by 2...f5!? White does have other options than 2.e4 or 2.d5 although those are probably the best. GMs have played 2.c3 but they usually agree to draws against similarly rated players fairly quickly. Against lower rated players, the GMs grind out win after win. Another line, which isn't quite as good is 2.Nf3 hoping to transpose to a rather harmless English but it doesn't get my juices flowing. The claim that 2.d5 is a Schmidt, Modern, or any other type of Benoni is just wrong. The move order allows White to play a Schmidt Benoni, but he still has the option of playing a standard Modern Benoni. Black also has the option of playing a Czech Benoni or even a Benko or Blumenfeld (if White has played c4). The opening hasn't been decided by move 2!


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Viking God Member Offline Posts: 673 Location: Norway Joined: 10/12/04 Gender:	Re: 1. d4 c5? Reply #9 - 10/21/05 at 01:04:17	Post Tools	Print Post
	I remember playing 1.d4 c5 2. d5 b5!?, a long time ago, after seeing some games with it by good old Trompowskij himself Dont know if anyone has used it since....


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lost highway Senior Member Offline I may be crazy. Posts: 471 Joined: 06/17/05 Gender:	Re: 1. d4 c5? Reply #8 - 10/20/05 at 19:33:34	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: I have seen this opening but never been studing it. What´s the name of this oppening and what veriations does exist on it? Well I guess I can check it up but is´t mutch more fun to have a topic on it Well it would be fun to hear if you think it´s any good responce for black? I used to play the Benko Gambit. By playing 1.d4 c5, I had a higher percentage of Benkos than if I played 1...Nf6. - Lost Highway


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basqueknight Ex Member	Re: 1. d4 c5? Reply #7 - 10/20/05 at 19:09:58	Post Tools	Print Post
	My old coach has been playing this but not as a benoni. Just as a way to get white off the beaten path. i think i would as white play 2 e4!


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TalJechin God Member Offline There is no secret ingredient. Posts: 2892 Location: Malmö Joined: 08/12/04 Gender:	Re: 1. d4 c5? Reply #6 - 10/20/05 at 09:36:21	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 c5 is rather fertile soil for adventurous souls, as apart from the different benonis mentioned, there are e.g: the Vulture 2.d5 Nf6 3.c4 Ne4, the Scorpio 2.d5 e6 3.c4 exd5 4.cxd5 d6 idea Be7, Bf6, Ne7-g6 etc, the Benonigrad 2.d5 f5 and some others - though most of these can also come about from 1...Nf6 or 1...e6 too.


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Bronstein YaBB Newbies Offline Posts: 1 Location: Aachen Joined: 10/20/05	Re: 1. d4 c5? Reply #5 - 10/20/05 at 07:55:20	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: I understand the Schmid Benoni as a BLACK opening, i.e. the Benoni defense where Black omits ...e7-e6, thus defending the d6 pawn. But at the right time he can throw in e7-e6 nevertheless. White is well advised to skip c2-c4 in the pure Schmid Benoni (without ...e7-e6) to keep c4 free for his knight. Lothar Schmid had good success with it end of 50s/beginning of 60s, but was crashed with it by Botwinnik in a famous game on the Olymiade in Leipzig 1960. A good overview over the different Benoni setups is given in the new book of the Starting out series "Benoni Systems"


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Bronstein Guest	Re: 1. d4 c5? Reply #4 - 10/20/05 at 07:34:15	Post Tools	Print Post
	I understand the Schmid Benoni, i.e. the Benoni defense where Black omits ...e7-e6, thus defending the d6 pawn. But at the right time he can throw in e7-e6 nevertheless. White is well advised to skip c2-c4 in the pure Schmid Benoni (without ...e7-e6) to keep c4 free for his knight. Lothar Schmid had good success with it end of 50s/beginning of 60s, but was crashed with it by Botwinnik in a famous game on the Olymiade in Leipzig 1960. A good overview over the different Benoni setups is given in the new book of the Starting out series "Benoni Systems"


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alumbrado God Member Offline Esse quam videri bonus malebo Posts: 1418 Location: London Joined: 02/17/03 Gender:	Re: 1. d4 c5? Reply #3 - 10/10/03 at 04:46:13	Post Tools	Print Post
	To be precise, 1...c5 is the Schmidt Benoni (as opposed to the Modern Benoni (1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e6 followed by ...exd5 and ...g6). (There is also the Czech Benoni and the Old Benoni - they both involve Black playing ...e5 instead of ...e6 - I think the difference is that in the Old Benoni, Black plays ...Be7 whereas in the Czech he fianchettos - but in truth I don't know!). The main distinction between the Schmid and the other Benonis is that White is not committed to c2-c4, so he can play Nc3 and e2-e4 and then put a piece (usually a knight) on the c4 square. I think I am right in saying that there is a general feeling that the Schmidt Benoni gives White a small but safe plus, with Black not having as much counterplay as in the Modern Benoni, but not being subject to the same danger of being squashed. To be more specific Black does not get his queenside pawn roller and play against the white centre, as in the Modern Benoni after ...exd5 and cxd5, but equally, White does not get his central pawn majority and the possibility of e2-e4-e5. Swings and roundabouts ... I think if Black follows up (after 1.d4 c5 2.d5) with 2...e6 the opening is called the Franco-Benoni - because it can also arise from a French move-order (1.e4 e6 2.d4 c5 3.d5). There is another discussion thread on this somewhere, and a recent ChessBase CD on the subject.

	If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
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alumbrado God Member Offline Esse quam videri bonus malebo Posts: 1418 Location: London Joined: 02/17/03 Gender:	Re: 1. d4 c5? Reply #2 - 10/10/03 at 04:45:37	Post Tools	Print Post
	To be precise, 1...c5 is the Schmidt Benoni (as opposed to the Modern Benoni (1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e6 followed by ...exd5 and ...g6). (There is also the Czech Benoni and the Old Benoni - they both involve Black playing ...e5 instead of ...e6 - I think the difference is that in the Old Benoni, Black plays ...Be7 whereas in the Czech he fianchettos - but in truth I don't know!). The main distinction between the Schmid and the other Benonis is that White is not committed to c2-c4, so he can play Nc3 and e2-e4 and then put a piece (usually a knight) on the c4 square. I think I am right in saying that there is a general feeling that the Schmidt Benoni gives White a small but safe plus, with Black not having as much counterplay as in the Modern Benoni, but not being subject to the same danger of being squashed. To be more specific Black does not get his queenside pawn roller and play against the white centre, as in the Modern Benoni after ...exd5 and cxd5, but equally, White does not get his central pawn majority and the possibility of e2-e4-e5. Swings and roundabouts ... I think if Black follows up (after 1.d4 c5 2.d5) with 2...e6 the opening is called the Franco-Benoni - because it can also arise from a French move-order (1.e4 e6 2.d4 c5 3.d5). There is another discussion thread on this somewhere, and a recent ChessBase CD on the subject.

	If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
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Glenn Snow God Member Offline Posts: 1720 Location: Franklin Joined: 09/27/03 Gender:	Re: 1. d4 c5? Reply #1 - 10/10/03 at 04:33:09	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d5 c5 is the Benoni Defense. After the most common move 2.d5, Black usually plays ...Nf6, ...d6, ...g6, and ...Bg7 followed at some time by ...a6 and/or ...e6, but there are many different possibilities.


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Jacob Ekberg Guest	1. d4 c5? 10/09/03 at 02:08:04	Post Tools	Print Post
	I have seen this opening but never been studing it. What´s the name of this oppening and what veriations does exist on it? Well I guess I can check it up but is´t mutch more fun to have a topic on it Well it would be fun to hear if you think it´s any good responce for black?


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