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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) The Wilkes-Barre (Traxler) Variation (Read 22271 times)
Conquistador
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Re: The Wilkes-Barre (Traxler) Variation
Reply #15 - 01/09/10 at 03:42:35
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I am currently working on that variation as it has been brought to my attention by ArKheiN_.   

AMM, those websites were used as part of our collection of analysis.  Jerz' Analysis helped save black in a few variations brought up in the NIC.  The second link is a rudementary amount of theory and is way behind compared to our progress.  But, it helped us at the beginnning.

6...Qe8 may not be so bad for black if it works because black is reeling in the main lines with 5.Bxf7+ Ke7  6.Bb3 Rf8 and 7.Nc3, 7.d3, and 7.0-0 are all strong moves if followed up correctly.  Personally, I think that 7.Nc3 is the death of that particular variation.
  
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Re: The Wilkes-Barre (Traxler) Variation
Reply #14 - 01/09/10 at 02:54:11
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Conquistador,

I really like the project you're engaged in -- that sort of collective analysis can be very valuable.

Have you had a look at the line 6.Bb3 Qe8!? This brings up a rather different set of patterns than the more normal lines, and despite one bad GM outing it seems to me to be worth at least a look. Certainly it is no worse than some other moves that have been heavily analyzed. Peter Leisebein played it several times with success in the 90s. I have not done any serious work on it -- I play the Traxler/Wilkes Barre variation only for fun -- but in the little poking around I have done I haven't found a refutation.
  
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Re: The Wilkes-Barre (Traxler) Variation
Reply #13 - 01/09/10 at 00:58:37
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MNb wrote on 12/06/09 at 21:03:24:
Will there be any publication?

Edit: thanks for the link.


http://traxler.ifrance.com/index.html

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzesz4a6/current/id12.html
  
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Re: The Wilkes-Barre (Traxler) Variation
Reply #12 - 12/06/09 at 21:10:26
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Our analysis is simply in the interest of the opening so you can go there and check out some of our work.  We were all interested in the opening and went to study it.

Here is our group Traxler Analysis
http://www.chess.com/groups/home/traxler-analysis

  
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MNb
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Re: The Wilkes-Barre (Traxler) Variation
Reply #11 - 12/06/09 at 21:03:24
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Will there be any publication?

Edit: thanks for the link.
  

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Re: The Wilkes-Barre (Traxler) Variation
Reply #10 - 12/06/09 at 16:48:07
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You are right Markovich, 6.Bb3 is the killer of the Traxler.  I identified three refutations in this particular variation.   

6.Bd5 is not as clear and black usually gets good play.   

5.Nxf7 is very risky for white.  There is only one line I know that can challenge black.

I am part of a group of twenty who worked out the Traxler.  The theory is scattered everywhere.  NIC had good analysis, but there were groundbreaking improvements shown by another source.  I think we used analysis from seven different sources and games.  The process is for the most part finished, although additional variations continue to be found as the opening is quite complex.
  
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MNb
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Re: The Wilkes-Barre (Traxler) Variation
Reply #9 - 10/31/04 at 19:30:26
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<In particular the "Nielsen Attack" leads to a win for Black>
That is a bit optimistic, but I admit that White's play is somewhat dubious - if Black exactly knows what he is doing. Personally I used to play the safer 4.Nxc3 most of the times. But hey, this stuff asks for another thread.
For the record: it is a bit superfluous to attribute 5...Nc6 to Steinitz, as the position after 6.Nf3 for the first time occurred in Göring-Paulsen, Leipzig 1877.
  

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Re: The Wilkes-Barre (Traxler) Variation
Reply #8 - 10/31/04 at 16:50:57
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4...Bc5 and now:

(1) I as White would never consider 5. Nxf7.  It gives Black too much of what he wants.  Even theoretically, I think Black is OK here.

(2) 5. Bxf7+ Ke7  6. Bb3 simply must be better for White.  I suppose I could be pursuaded otherwise, but Blacks game smells fishy.

(3) 6. Bd5 looks too smart by half.  I could be wrong.

The Danish, by the way, is unsound.  The right path for Black is not Schlecter's 5...d5, but Steinitz's 5...Nc6!  In particular the "Nielsen Attack"  6. Nf3 Bb4+  7. Nc3 Nf6  8. Qc2 d6  9. O-O-O O-O (I forget, it could be that Black's 9th and 10th should be reversed here)  10. e5 Ng4, leads to a win for Black.
  

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Re: The Wilkes-Barre (Traxler) Variation
Reply #7 - 10/31/04 at 06:03:03
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After 8.Nf3 (this is just off-my-head nonsense, so don't laugh too much), 8...Nxe4 9.Ke3 Kxf7 10.b5 Na5 11.Kxe4 d5+ 12.Ke3 d4+ 13.Kf2 e4 could be fun. Also, 8...Kxf7 9.b5 Nd4 10.Nxd4 exd4 11.Rf1 (given as best by Shredder 7) Re8 and I think black's position is fine.

With 8.Bg6 hxg5, I don't see anything with which you can conclude that white has the better prospects. Shredder assesses it as equal, and while Junior 8 is more optimistic of white's chances, Junior's evaluations are often quite off the mark when it comes to bishop vs knight imbalances, weak pawns vs open files etc, and it loves the initiative a little too much. Computers would have a hard time assessing this, and I think most humans would give "unclear". Personally with a lead in development and the open h-file, I'd prefer black here. I'm sure plenty of people would like the white side too, it's all a matter of taste. 

As you say, there is a lot to be explored here, 6.b4 is a neglected and underrated line.

Regards, 
Craig  Grin
  

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Re: The Wilkes-Barre (Traxler) Variation
Reply #6 - 10/30/04 at 12:12:09
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Hi Craig!
after 7 Kxf2 h6 , you have 2 other possibilities :
1) you don't need to let Black open the h-file , by 8 Nf3 Kxf7 9 b5 , and now Junior7 gives a positive evaluation
( in this sort of positions , I trust more Junior7 than any other engine ) after 9...Nd4 10 Nxe5+ ( +0.29/19)
2) if you prefer give the N rather than the B , it's better to play Bg6  , what gives White their better perspectives
among all B moves : there is still much to find in this line
Friendly Yours
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Re: The Wilkes-Barre (Traxler) Variation
Reply #5 - 10/28/04 at 08:38:04
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The Traxler is maybe the most tactically complex of openings, certainly one of the least comprehensible to humans (and, from my analysis with programs, they also struggle to calculate many of the positions correctly). But if a well-prepared black player ventures it OTB, I would fancy his chances every time, since white's position is constantly on a precipice in the 5.Nxf7 lines, and is still very difficult in the 5.Bxf7+ lines.

On the 6.b4 line, christened the Schmidt attack after P Schmidt who first analysed and played the line in high-level competition:

I think Estrin was on the right track with his 6...Bxf2+, it certainly looks the thematic move. 6...Nxb4 doesn't look right to me, while 6...Bxb4 could be playable but seems against the ideas of the opening. So I'll take 6...Bxf2+ as the "main line".

First, as much as I hate "database dumps", some games to whet the appetite:

[Event "W theme corr"]
[Site ""]
[Date "1973.??.??"]
[Round "0"]
[White "Schmidt,P"]
[Black "Estrin,Yakov Borisovich"]
[Result "1/2"]
[Eco "C57"]
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 Bc5 5.Bxf7+ Ke7 6.b4 Bxf2+ 7.Kxf2 h6 8.Bc4 hxg5 
9.d3 g4 10.c3 d6 11.Be3 Qe8 12.Nd2 Qg6 13.Nf1 g3+ 14.Kg1 Ng4 15.Qf3 gxh2+ 16.Nxh2 Nxe3 
17.Qxe3 Bh3 18.Qf2 Raf8 19.Nf3 Rh6 20.Nh4 Qg5 21.Nf5+ Bxf5 22.Rxh6 Bg4 23.Qxf8+ Kxf8 24.Rf1+ Ke8 
25.Rh8+ Kd7 26.Rf7+ Ne7 27.Rh7 d5 28.exd5 Bf5 29.Rhxg7 Qe3+ 30.Kh2 Qh6+ 31.Kg1 Qe3+ 1/2

[Event "NED-ch18 corr"]
[Site ""]
[Date "1988.??.??"]
[Round "0"]
[White "Fiorito,Mario V"]
[Black "Lambers,Gerrit Hans"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "C57"]
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 Bc5 5.Bxf7+ Ke7 6.b4 Bxf2+ 7.Kxf2 h6 8.c3 hxg5 
9.Bd5 d6 10.d4 Ke8 11.Ke1 g4 12.Bg5 Ne7 13.Qd3 Nfxd5 14.exd5 Rh5 15.Qd2 Bf5 16.Kf2 Qd7 
17.dxe5 dxe5 18.Bxe7 Kxe7 19.Kg3 Qd6 20.Kf2 g3+ 21.Ke1 Rxh2 22.Rf1 Qg6 23.Na3 Bd3 24.Rg1 Qe4+ 
25.Kd1 Rf8 0-1

[Event "corr"]
[Site ""]
[Date "1990.??.??"]
[Round "0"]
[White "Mueller"]
[Black "Shoup,Karl"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Eco "C57"]
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 Bc5 5.Bxf7+ Ke7 6.b4 Bxf2+ 7.Kxf2 h6 8.Bc4 hxg5 
9.d3 g4 10.Nd2 d6 11.c3 Qf8 12.Kg1 Bd7 13.Nf1 Nd8 14.Be3 Nf7 15.Ng3 Re8 16.b5 b6 
17.a4 Be6 18.Qb3 Nd8 19.a5 Bxc4 20.Qxc4 Ne6 21.axb6 axb6 22.Ra7 Nd7 23.Nf5+ Kf6 24.Ra1 g6 
25.Rf1 Nf4 26.Bxf4 exf4 27.Rxf4 Kg5 28.g3 Ne5 29.Qa2 Nxd3 30.Rf1 Rxe4 31.Qd2+ Kh5 32.h4 Rf4 
33.Ng7+ Qxg7 34.gxf4 Nc5 35.Qd5+ Kh6 36.Qg5+ Kh7 37.Re1 Rf8 38.h5  1-0

Okay, so the first point is that in contrast to the 5.Nxf7 Bxf2+ lines, white cannot play 7.Kf1 here since 7...Bh4 8.Nf3 Kxf7 9.Nxh4 d5 (or 9...Rf8) looks like time for white to take an early shower. 

After 7.Kxf2 h6 8.Bc4 (The 8.c3 of Fiorito-Lambers looks weaker, it's hard to find too many improvements on white's play (there are some I'm sure) in the opening yet black has a definite edge by 15...Bf5) hxg5 9.d3 g4 (Shredder seems to like the odd 9...Rh5 here, intending to swing the queen to h8 and threatening ...g3+ ideas; perhaps this idea is worth a try, practical tests are certainly needed), I don't know if there's objectively much difference between 10.c3 and 10.Nd2, since the games could easily have transposed within a few moves. The reason for black's loss wasn't his position at this point, but simply that he doesn't understand the plan in the Traxler 5.Bxf7+ lines [which Estrin did, Qe8-g6/h5 is the correct manouevre, whereas 11...Qf8 is tripe; with 11...Qe8 12.Kg1?! g3! black is doing very well, so perhaps 12.Ke1 Qg6 should be preferred, with an unclear position holding chances for both sides (a queenside pawn advance or awkward play with Qa4 is on the cards for white, while black has white's king in the centre, some open lines, and Steinitz would probably like the king position too)].

In the Estrin game, Shredder is adamant that black should play 11...g3+, but I'm not so sure about this, 12.hxg3 Bg4 13.Qg1 and black hasn't enough for the pawn. But Shredder seems to want to play ...g3 in every position.

Also, Estrin may have retained winning chances with 22...Bxe4, when he has an extra pawn, though the complicated nature of the position, and the bishop against knight, offers certain drawing possibilities. Maybe 22...Qxh6 23.exf5 g6 is also playable, again with unclear consequences. 

Regards, 
Craig  Grin
  

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Re: The Wilkes-Barre (Traxler) Variation
Reply #4 - 10/27/04 at 20:55:28
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The Traxler is the perfect chess anti-depressivum. I do not really have weak nerves, but this is too risky for me.
It is fun analyzing - only the Danish Gambit Accepted (double pawn sac) is comparible.
Compared to the Traxler, for instance the BDG is child's play and the KG ultrasolid.
  

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Re: The Wilkes-Barre (Traxler) Variation
Reply #3 - 10/27/04 at 07:21:12
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Hi to all!
I was somewhat deceived by most analyses of Traxler;
in the line 5 Bxf7+ Re7  , very few attention is devoted to 6 b4  (Schmidt attack)
This line is as complex as  3 others (6 Bb3 , Bc4 , Bd5 ) ,
and as strong for white 
I have a unique set of games between chess engines , but there is no serious analysis of this line by "patented"
analysts 8)
PS this line is known as Schmidt Attack , but who is Schmidt? They are plenty! Who is that who drew with 
Estrin? Roll Eyes 
Friendly Yours
Photophore
  
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Re: The Wilkes-Barre (Traxler) Variation
Reply #2 - 12/23/03 at 11:30:26
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There is a recent CD-ROM on the Wilkes Barre/Traxler. I took this from the British Chess Magazine website:

"Computer chess playing programs are extremely strong today, and almost unbeatable in complex 'hanging-by-a-thread' positions. Not by coincidence, the Traxler Counterattack (1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bc4 Nf6 4 Ng5 Bc5, also known as the Wilkes-Barre variation) is among the sharpest openings and extremely tactical, the perfect laboratory for computer analysis. What happens when advanced computing power is applied to a chess opening like that? The answer is NM Dan Heisman's new Traxler Counterattack CD-Rom. Here you will find the distilled essence of over 2,000 hours of Master-directed computer research...and the results are shocking! More than 50% new theory (that's right!), old 'main line' busted, accepted evaluations overturned - and most importantly, Heisman walks you through every step, explaining the ideas! This digital book must be seen! Here's what you get with the Traxler Counterattack CD-Rom:

* 54 in-depth Surveys of the opening * About 1650 games, the largest Traxler collection anywhere! * Detailed opening keys - find the variation you want instantly * Theme and Endgame keys * 13 text documents to guide you through the book * A Tree database, the opening book for Fritz and others * A Training database to introduce the Traxler * A complete .pgn file * Many extras...even a rare photo of Karel Traxler himself!"


If I was interested in either side of the Traxler, I thnk this would have found its way on to my Christmas list.  Personally, I have never studied it, though - *way* too complicated for my blood! 
  

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Re: The Wilkes-Barre (Traxler) Variation
Reply #1 - 12/22/03 at 18:41:14
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There were some recent surveys in New in Chess that are probably worth looking at if you're interested in this line.
  

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