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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Critical lines of the Chigorin (Read 39639 times)
HgMan
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Re: Critical lines of the Chigorin
Reply #32 - 06/30/05 at 11:22:10
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If I can find them, I will be happy to post them, but I don't know where they are at the moment--I have moved three or four times since then, and I left a number of old chess books and correspondence materials with my parents (some 3000 miles away!).  I would like to think I kept the records, but won't be able to get them for some time.  With any luck, I might also have the Inside Chess article there, too.  I can't find any mention of Inside Chess online, and wonder if it might be possible to track down old issues somewhere?  It was a great magazine...
  

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Re: Critical lines of the Chigorin
Reply #31 - 06/30/05 at 09:45:10
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Does anyone else have the article?!
Meanwhile, no opinions on 5. ... a6!? ?

@HgMan: What about digging out your old correspondence games, or don't you have them anymore?
  
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Re: Critical lines of the Chigorin
Reply #30 - 06/30/05 at 08:33:15
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Yasser Seirawan's old magazine Inside Chess (which I miss a good deal!) had an excellent article on the Chigorin (must have been about 1999) and some very strong and less common lines for White.  Alas, I no longer seem to have the magazine and I don't recall the line and its specifics, but I do remember enjoying good success with the line in correspondence chess...
  

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Re: Critical lines of the Chigorin
Reply #29 - 06/29/05 at 00:15:03
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I will try to have a look at this later today!
  

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Re: Critical lines of the Chigorin
Reply #28 - 06/28/05 at 20:15:34
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Quote:
@Christoph:
Have you already looked at my suggestion 11.Ne5 in your game against Plüg? I would greatly appreciate an answer!  Grin



Errm, 

While you're looking at FightingDragon's 11.Ne5, I prefer it a move later (as I noted in a previous post), after 11...Ncd8.  Any comments?

  
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Re: Critical lines of the Chigorin
Reply #27 - 06/28/05 at 19:47:29
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Now I will reply to my own question  Roll Eyes:
After 1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nf3 Bg4 4.Nc3 e6 5.e3 Nf6 6.h3 I think that 6. ... Bf3:?! doesn't give black equality, e.g. 7.Qf3: a6!? 8.cd5:!? ed5: 9.Bd3 Bd6 10.Bd2 Ne7 11.e4! and white has the initiative because of his more actively placed pieces. In the line after 6. ... Bh5 perhaps I overestimated 7.g4 Bg6 8.Nh4 (this is necessary now, black threatens Nb4) Be4! 9.Ne4: Ne4: 10.Nf3 Bb4 with some initiative for black because of his better development.
Instead of taking on e4 white should better play 9.f3 Ng8!? 10.Ng2 Bg6 11.cd5: ed5: 12.h4 h5 13.Nf4 hg4: 14.Ng6: fg6: 15.Bd3 Qd6 with unclear play where black shouldn't be worse. 
Then I looked it up in Bronznik's excellent book, who only gave 7.cd5: ed5: 8.Bb5 and follows up with a variation where black has inadequate compensation for a sacrificed pawn.
So now I thought about 5. ... a6!?
At first glance I can see no disadvantage compared to 5. ... Nf6, and the advantage is that it rules out Bb5. Now on h3 Bh5 white doesn't even have h4 for the knight. White develops slowly, so why shouldn't black also take some time to stop an optimal setup for white?!
So what do you think of this idea?

@Christoph:
Have you already looked at my suggestion 11.Ne5 in your game against Plüg? I would greatly appreciate an answer!  Grin
  
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Re: Critical lines of the Chigorin
Reply #26 - 06/24/05 at 18:06:15
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So if I understand you correctly you think that the standard plan with Bb4 is no good?!
Your concept seems interesting, but I didn't really understand Nyback's plan: did he play Bd2 and Qb3 only with the intention to castle long (which could become quite dangerous for his king)?
I suggest another move order for white:
1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nf3 Bg4 4.Nc3 e6 5.e3 Nf6 6.h3!
Now black has to lay his cards on the table:
on 6. ... Bh5 I have the feeling that white is better after 7.g4! 
Bg6 8.Nh4 with Ng6: and Bg2 to follow, see Reich-Wutz, 2005
on 6. ... Bf3: white should continue as in my game:
7.Qf3: Bb4 8.cd5: ed5: 9.Bd3 (another point of white's play is to leave the bishop on c1 as he will recapture on c3 with 
the pawn anyway to strengthen his centre, the bishop may have possibilities at a3) 0-0 10.0-0 a6 11.a3! and also here white should be better.
Perhaps black can try 7. ... a6, though it is not really clear to me how he should continue. What do you think?
  
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Re: Critical lines of the Chigorin
Reply #25 - 06/24/05 at 11:10:08
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@FightingDragon 

Since I was able to find one of my games online, I can at least try to answer one of your questions immediately, namely "what went wrong" in your game.

I found over time that the whole idea of playing on the light squares c4 and e4 is not feasible if the dark-squared bishop of White "stayed at home" (so did not develop to f4 before playing e2-e3), because White has less problems to protect the (temporarily) weak pawn on e3 when playing f2-f3. I do have to say that I probably wouldn't have traded on f3 here, since it is additionally difficult then to play on the light squares (would have traded the Bg4 to the light-squared bishop, which should always be possible).

Nevertheless, due to this "problematic" I designed a "new" approach, which you may examine in my game I played against GM Nyback in my last Bundesliga season. I'll try to annotate at least the most important and critical situations:

GM Nyback (2554) - Wisnewski (2392)
German Bundesliga 2004/05

1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nf3 Bg4 4.Nc3 e6 5.e3 Nf6 6.Bd2 a6!?

As I already pointed out above, I don't like to play the "traditional" way by exchanging the Bf8 against the Nc3. Instead, 6...a6!? is a useful move for numerous purposes:

a.) If I want to play ...Bd6, I make sure not to be pestered by the Nc3.

b.) If I change my mind and (for whatever reason) want to go back to the standard plan, ...a6 can come in handy for a possible ...b7-b5 advance (In order to strengthen my control over c4).

7.Qb3 Bxf3

This trade is feasible, since I think black's pawn structure is favorable.

8.gxf3 Be7

Unfortunately I cannot play 8...Bd6? here, because after 9.c5 Be7 10.Qxb7 the queen is no longer caught after 10...Na5 (b4 is available now).

9.cxd5 exd5 10.Rg1 0-0 11.0-0-0 b5 12.Ne2

In this position, I lost the thread and play the inaccurate 12...Rab8?!

Instead, after 12...Bd6! (in order to prevent 13.Nf4), I think Black has good attacking prospects on the queen side, while it will take some time for White to finish his development. I'd take this position any day.

I hope I could shed some light - and if there are questions, please ask Smiley
  

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Re: Critical lines of the Chigorin
Reply #24 - 06/24/05 at 02:35:59
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@Fightingdragon

I will get home tonight and check with my sources and analyses, so I hope to have something to answer your questions over the weekend

@Smyslov_Fan et al.

I translated the annotations of my game against Plug, so people who can't speak german can follow it as well. It can be found in post #20 Smiley
« Last Edit: 06/24/05 at 10:43:39 by IM Christoph Wisnewski »  

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Re: Critical lines of the Chigorin
Reply #23 - 06/23/05 at 21:41:26
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Hi, 

As you can probably tell, I'm new to this site.  I am amazed at the wonderful, cutting-edge analysis you are giving us, FM/IM Wisnewski and FightingDragon.  I've been following the conversation on the Chigorin because as an ardent defender of the White side, I've never been particularly impressed with Karpov's analyses of White's chances.  The great positional player's games seem to lack punch against this opening.   

Although I don't speak or read German, I appreciate the comments you gave to Plug-Wisnewski.  It seems to me that the critical position is after 11....Nc-d8!(!?).  White may have something more inspiring than simply 12.Rac1.

The maneuver Rac1, Na4-c5 seems slow and almost misses the point of Black's play.  Do you have any other recommendations for White beyond 12.Nb5 which you convincingly show is also weak?  For instance, 12.Ne5 seems more direct.  After the light squared Bishops are traded, perhaps white could dream of an eventual Qf3, Rab1, b4 and a minority attack.  What do you think?

BTW. The English language should adopt cool words like "lahmgelegt".  Apart from the meaning (which I guessed at from the context), it just sounds cool! 8)
  
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Re: Critical lines of the Chigorin
Reply #22 - 06/23/05 at 18:33:02
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Hi!
Nice to receive so much feedback!  Smiley
In some points you have convinced me, in others not (but I hope you will do in the end).
Do you have an idea what went wrong in my game (in the first 15 moves)?
Your plan against Epishin looks nice, just didn't look at it close enough.  Embarrassed
About the game against Plüg: it went rather nice for you but what if white decides to exchange his bad "good" bishop with 11.Ne5 (as I gave before)?
By the way, very nice game against Krasenkov!
It is always funny that the Chigorin is frowned upon by many players but in practise success most time proved me right (After I beat an FM in a rapid game in the line with 1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.cd5: Qd5: 4.e3 e5 5.Nc3 Bb4 6.Bd2 Bc3: 
7.bc3: Nf6 8.c4 Qd6 9.d5 Ne7 as he built up a strong center which I cracked by playing c7-c6 and b7-b5 he told me: "In my youth we learned to be positional players, this just can't work!"  Roll Eyes).
I looked again at Dizdarevic-Fercec (which I posted in the 2.Nf3 thread) and am not so impressed anymore. With a little more accurate defense white could have stopped black's attack and could have won the game.
Do you have any concrete thoughts on the lines with 3.e3 I gave (like Grant-Hector f.e.)?
  
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Re: Critical lines of the Chigorin
Reply #21 - 06/23/05 at 09:19:21
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Here is a game for you I played last season in German Bundesliga. It features the (quite popular) variation with 

1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.cxd5 Qxd5 4.e3 e5 5.Nc3 Bb4 6.Bd2 Bxc3 7.bxc3 Nf6 8.f3 e4.

You'll note that White was completely crushed by move 20. I don't remember my exact analysis now (will look it up later), but either 20...Rb8 or 20...Ba6 (instead of 20...Qh5?) leads to an endgame where Black is simply an a-pawn up (with 3 vs 3 on the kingside) by force.

GM Gabriel,C (2556) - Wisnewski,C (2392) [D07]
German Bundesliga (11), 13.02.2005

1.d2-d4 d7-d5 2.c2-c4 Sb8-c6 3.c4xd5 Dd8xd5 4.e2-e3 e7-e5 5.Sb1-c3 Lf8-b4 6.Lc1-d2 Lb4xc3 7.b2xc3 Sg8-f6 8.c3-c4 Dd5-d6 9.d4-d5 Sc6-e7 10.f2-f3 e5-e4 11.Dd1-b3 a7-a5 12.Sg1-e2 c7-c6 13.Se2-c3 e4xf3 14.g2xf3 0-0 15.e3-e4 b7-b5 16.d5xc6 b5xc4 17.Lf1xc4 Se7xc6 18.Sc3-b5 Dd6-e7 19.Db3-a3 De7-e5 20.Ta1-c1 De5-h5 21.Da3-e3 Lc8-h3 22.Th1-g1 Sc6-e5 23.Lc4-e2 Tf8-d8 24.De3-f4 Se5-g6 25.Df4-g5 h7-h6 26.Dg5-g3 Lh3-d7 27.Sb5-d6 Ld7-e6 28.a2-a4 Dh5-h4 29.Dg3xh4 Sg6xh4 30.Sd6-b7 Td8-b8 31.Sb7-c5 Kg8-f8 32.Ld2-f4 Tb8-c8 33.Lf4-d6+ Kf8-g8 34.Ld6-e7 Sf6-d7 35.Ke1-f2 Sd7xc5 36.Tc1xc5 Sh4-g6 37.Le7-d6 ½-½

I also posted some other games in the thread "Chigorin players vs. 2.Nf3" (http://altmax.com/cgi-local/cpf/YaBB.cgi?board=1d4d5;action=display;num=10522427...) ... Feel free to look there as well (if not already done so)
  

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Re: Critical lines of the Chigorin
Reply #20 - 06/20/05 at 14:33:48
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This game is for the players who are afraid that the positions after 1.d2-d4 d7-d5 2.Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 3.c2-c4 Bc8-g4 4.Nb1-c3 e7-e6 5.c4xd5 e6xd5 6.Bc1-g5 get dry too quickly.

As I said earlier, an interesting idea is to trade the light-squared bishop against the Knight at a right time and then proceed to play ...f7-f5 with attacking prospects on the king side. White will try to start his typical queen side minority attack, but I think Black's chances are better. The black pawn structure sentences the white bishop to a rather measely life:

Plüg,A - Wisnewski,C [D07]
Bargteheider Sparkassen-Cup 2003 Bargteheide, 2003

1.d2-d4 d7-d5 2.Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 3.c2-c4 Bc8-g4 4.Nb1-c3 e7-e6 5.c4xd5 e6xd5 6.Bc1-g5 Bf8-e7 7.Bg5xe7 Ng8xe7 8.e2-e3 0-0 9.Bf1-e2 

Takes care of the often annoying pin of the Knight f3. [After [b]9.Bf1-d3[/b] Black cannot play [b]9...Qd8-d6?[/b] to achieve a similar setup like in the actual game. ([b]9...f7-f5!?[/b] seems more typical, though Black has to take care not to let White occupy and secure the outpost e5 with his Knight.)  [b]10.Bd3xh7+! Kg8xh7 11.Nf3-g5+ Kh7-g6 12.Qd1xg4 f7-f5 13.Qg4-f4 Qd6xf4 14.e3xf4 Nc6xd4 15.0-0-0±[/b] with a clearly better position for White] 

9...Qd8-d6 

Bringing the queen into an active position. From here, she can be transferred to the queen side as well as to the king side. 

10.h2-h3 Bg4-h5 

[[b]10...Bg4xf3?![/b] should be looked at, but one can soon reach the conclusion that Black cannot regroup his pieces like in the actual game. [b]11.Be2xf3 f7-f5 12.Qd1-b3 Ra8-d8=[/b] and although the position is equal, the route via d8 for the Nc6 is blocked.] 

11.0-0 Nc6-d8! 

The Knight is being transferred to e6, where he accomplishes many tasks; on the one hand he protects c5, (a critical point, which, in this kind of structure, is often occupied by white pieces) - and on the other hand, he supports a possible advance ...f7-f5-f4. 

12.Ta1-c1 

[[b]12.Nc3-b5?![/b] has the idea to prevent Black from consolidating his queen side, but it simply fails. [b]12...Qd6-b6 13.a2-a4 (13.Nf3-e5 Bh5xe2 14.Qd1xe2 c7-c6 15.Nb5-c3 Qb6-c7=[/b] and Black is comfortable.) [b]13...Bh5xf3 14.Be2xf3 c7-c6 15.Nb5-c3 (15.Nb5-d6? Qb6-c7-+) 15...Qb6xb2[/b] and Black is a pawn up.] 

12...c7-c6 13.Nc3-a4 Nd8-e6 14.Na4-c5 Ne6xc5 15.Rc1xc5 

White plays his classical scheme. He is about to begin his typical minority attack (b2-b4-b5).

15...Bh5xf3! 

Black both eliminates the Knight and lays ground for a large offense on the king side. The game will show that White remains with a "bad" bishop, while the black knight is powerful. 

16.Be2xf3 f7-f5 

Black's play on the king side is just faster than White's play on the queen side. 

17.g2-g3 Rf8-f6 

Protects c6 and also shows new options (doubling of rooks, maneuvers on 6th rank). 

18.Qd1-b3 Ra8-b8 19.Rc5-c3 a7-a6! 

A preventative move. Obviously Black does not want to trade queens after 20.Qa3 and therefore "protects" a7. 

20.Qb3-a3 Qd6-d7 21.Bf3-g2 Ne7-c8 22.Qa3-a5 Nc8-d6 

The Knight has reached its destination. From here, not only he helps to secure Black's queenside (Protection of b7, Control over c4 and b5), but also has offensive potential (possible outpost e4). 

23.Rc3-c2 Kg8-h8 24.h3-h4 Rb8-g8 25.a2-a4 g7-g5 26.h4xg5 Rg8xg5 27.Bg2-f3 Nd6-e4 

Even as Black's position is clearly better, it is not easy to find the right continuation. [I did not like [b]27...f5-f4?![/b] because of [b]28.e3xf4 Rf6xf4 29.Qa5-d2 Qd7-f7 30.Bf3-g2[/b] as the white pawn shield is still intact, while White may be able to create counterplay.; 
[b]27...h7-h5!?[/b] on the other hand would have been interesting. [b]28...h4[/b] is threatening, so White is forced to react with [b]28.Kg1-g2[/b]. But then it seems the idea [b]28...f5-f4[/b] works, as White can't retreat his bishop to g2 this time. There can follow [b]29.e3xf4 Rf6xf4 30.Qa5-d2 Qd7-f5! -/+[/b] with a strong attack.] 

28.Kg1-g2 Qd7-d6 29.Bf3xe4 f5xe4 

The white queen side is paralyzed and Black can do on the king side whatever he wants. It seems though, that White can just hold his position.

30.Rf1-h1 Rf6-f3 31.Rh1-h3 Rg5-f5 32.Qa5-e1 Rf5-f7 33.Rh3-h4 Qd6-f6 34.Qe1-d2 Rf7-g7 35.Rh4-f4 Rf3xf4 36.e3xf4 h7-h5 37.Qd2-e3 a6-a5 38.Rc2-c1 Rg7-h7 39.b2-b3 Kh8-g7 40.f2-f3 h5-h4 41.f3xe4 h4xg3 42.e4xd5 Rh7-h2+ 43.Kg2-g1 Qf6-h4 

1/2 - 1/2
« Last Edit: 06/24/05 at 10:41:42 by IM Christoph Wisnewski »  

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Re: Critical lines of the Chigorin
Reply #19 - 06/20/05 at 14:27:11
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Here is my game against Epishin. During my preparations for this line, I examined the Bronznik book, who stops at 11...h4, and who evaluates the position as "unclear", if I recall correctly.

I checked the games I had available in my database, but Black had difficulties to prove sufficient counterplay. Mainly, because the Nc6 was often ill-placed and had nothing to do. After Black castling long, the Nc6 could not get into play fast enough.

Therefore, I deviced a new setup, which I tried in a few games on the internet. It involved placing the Nc6 via d8 on e6 BEFORE castling, so that it could do more (Possible pawn breaks ...g5 and ...c5). 

In my game with Epishin, he tried to place the Knight on e5, but I think that I got sufficient play. I have not analysed the position too deeply yet, but I think that Black must be comfortable after 18...g5.

Here is the actual game:

Epischin,W (2635) - Wisnewski,C (2410) [D07]
Kiel op 2004 Kiel (5), 26.07.2004

1.d2-d4 d7-d5 2.c2-c4 Sb8-c6 3.Sg1-f3 Lc8-g4 4.Sb1-c3 e7-e6 5.c4xd5 e6xd5 6.Lc1-f4 Lf8-d6 7.Lf4-g3 Lg4xf3 8.g2xf3 Sg8-e7 9.e2-e3 a7-a6 10.Dd1-c2 h7-h5 11.0-0-0 h5-h4 12.Lg3xd6 Dd8xd6 13.f3-f4 g7-g6 14.Kc1-b1 Sc6-d8 15.Lf1-h3 f7-f5 16.Sc3-e2 Sd8-e6 17.Se2-c1 0-0-0 18.Sc1-d3 g6-g5 19.f4xg5 Se6xg5 20.Lh3-f1 Td8-f8 21.Td1-c1 c7-c6 22.a2-a3 Th8-g8 23.Kb1-a2 Tf8-f6 24.Dc2-a4 Sg5-e4 25.Tc1-c2 Dd6-c7 26.f2-f3 Se4-d6 27.Sd3-e5 f5-f4 28.Lf1-h3+ Kc8-d8 29.Se5-d7 Tf6-g6 30.e3xf4 Se7-f5 31.Sd7-e5 Tg6-f6 32.Se5xc6+ b7xc6 33.Tc2xc6 Dc7-e7 34.Da4-a5+ Kd8-e8 35.Th1-e1 Sf5-e3 36.Tc6-c7 1-0
  

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Re: Critical lines of the Chigorin
Reply #18 - 06/20/05 at 14:17:15
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Ok, I have been at home now and can post some games. I have not had much time, so I could not gather all games I promised to post. I will get the rest when I am at home again (which will be tomorrow).

If any of the games are annotated, the annotations are in german. They should (hopefully) be easy enough to understand, but I shall translate them as soon as I have time...
  

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