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Re: 1.d4 f5 2.Nc3 can black spice this up? (Read 8302 times)

Wonderer Ex Member	Re: 1.d4 f5 2.Nc3 can black spice this up? Reply #7 - 04/15/04 at 10:50:51	Post Tools	Print Post
	Well, I think Kindermann prefers 2...Nf6 since it's the most solid. 1.d4 f5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bg5 d5 4.Bxf6 exf6 was something I thought was slightly better for white until I read Kindermann's book. The trouble is that it's slightly more difficult for black to maintain the equilibrium - especially in blitz, which stands for 90% of my games nowadays. I like Williiams' suggestion 1.d4 f5 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bg5 c6!? (intending Qb6, Nd7 & Nf6). Here, it's harder for white to just sit on the position, as he can above when black's doubled f-pawns makes it static. For example, a blitz game of mine went, 4.h4?! Qb6 5.Rb1 Nd7 6.h5? e5 with a dream position!


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AmateurDragoneer Senior Member Offline Posts: 387 Location: NY Joined: 06/17/03 Gender:	Re: 1.d4 f5 2.Nc3 can black spice this up? Reply #6 - 04/14/04 at 18:53:55	Post Tools	Print Post
	No, Kindermann's book is certainly not infallible, but I also think he prefers the 2...Nf6 line because he's a Leningrad player and thus wants to retain the option of a ...d6, g6, Bg7 setup if White plays something erroneous becuase a Leningrad player might not want an f5, d5, c6 pawn structure and this probably accounts for his recommendation.


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Wonderer Ex Member	Re: 1.d4 f5 2.Nc3 can black spice this up? Reply #5 - 04/14/04 at 03:22:57	Post Tools	Print Post
	Well, Kindermann has written a good book on the Dutch, but it's not the ultimate truth... For one thing Williams suggest that c6 gives equality and I tend to agree with him. Khalifman,A (2630) - Bareev,E (2670) [A80] Moscow blitz Moscow, 1993 1.d4 f5 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bf4 c6 4.e3 Nd7 5.Bd3 e6 6.Nf3 Be7 7.0-0 Ngf6 8.Ne2 0-0 9.c4 Ne4 10.Rc1 g5 11.Bg3 g4 12.Ne5 Nxg3 13.hxg3 Nxe5 14.dxe5 Qc7 15.cxd5 exd5 16.Nd4 Qxe5 17.Qd2 a5 18.f3 gxf3 19.Rxf3 Bd7 20.Rcf1 Rf7 21.Ne2 Bg5 22.Nf4 b6 23.Nh3 Bh6 24.Kh2 Re8 25.Nf4 Bg5 26.a3 Rf6 27.Kg1 Kh8 28.b4 a4 29.Bc2 b5 30.Bd3 Rf7 31.Qc2 Rfe7 32.Re1 Qd6 33.Bxf5 d4 34.Bxd7 Qxd7 35.e4 Qd6 36.Qd3 Qe5 37.Qc2 Qd6 38.Qd3 Rf7 0-1 Sokolov,I (2620) - Nikolic,P (2640) [A80] EUCup Gr6 Sremic Krsko (1), 16.10.1998 1.d4 f5 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bf4 c6 4.e3 Nf6 5.Bd3 e6 6.Nf3 Be7 7.0-0 Nbd7 8.Ne2 0-0 9.h3 Ne4 10.c4 Bf6 11.b4 Qe7 12.Qb3 g5 13.Bh2 h5 14.Bxe4 fxe4 15.Nd2 Bg7 16.f3 exf3 17.Nxf3 g4 18.hxg4 hxg4 19.Ne5 Nxe5 20.Rxf8+ Qxf8 21.Bxe5 Bxe5 22.dxe5 Qg7 23.Qc3 Bd7 24.Rf1 Rf8 25.Rxf8+ Kxf8 26.c5 Qh7 27.Qd4 Qb1+ 28.Kh2 Qxa2 29.Qxg4 Qc2 30.Nd4 Qh7+ 31.Kg1 Qh8 32.Qg5 Kf7 33.e4 dxe4 34.Qf4+ Ke7 35.Qxe4 Qh6 36.Nf3 a5 37.Qd4 a4 38.Qd6+ Kd8 39.Qb8+ Bc8 40.Qd6+ Bd7 41.Qb8+ Bc8 42.Qd6+ ½-½


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Losetowin Full Member Offline The caveman Posts: 104 Location: oslo Joined: 12/13/03	Re: 1.d4 f5 2.Nc3 can black spice this up? Reply #4 - 04/13/04 at 11:45:47	Post Tools	Print Post
	I play amateurdragoners line as black. I feel i get satisfactory play. In return for the pawnstructure and weak pawns on d5 and f5 black get alot: bishop pair, full controll of squares in the center (e5 and particulary e4) and the halfopen e-file for rook(s).


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Glenn Snow God Member Offline Posts: 1720 Location: Franklin Joined: 09/27/03 Gender:	Re: 1.d4 f5 2.Nc3 can black spice this up? Reply #3 - 04/11/04 at 18:09:42	Post Tools	Print Post
	I think ...c6 preventing Nb5 is supposed to be better, nevertheless I prefer White also. As Black I would prefer the variation AmateurDragoneer suggested although you have to get your move order right to avoid a really bad game there as well.


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AmateurDragoneer Senior Member Offline Posts: 387 Location: NY Joined: 06/17/03 Gender:	Re: 1.d4 f5 2.Nc3 can black spice this up? Reply #2 - 04/11/04 at 16:23:14	Post Tools	Print Post
	Oh no, don't tell me another person recommended 2...d5. Something Black must constantly be aware of is committing his d-pawn too early as in some lines he may prefer to have it on d6 while in others he may want it on d5 and so 2...d5 commits way too early as White can now continue 3. Bf4! Nf6 4. e3 e6 5. Nb5 += according to Kindermann. Instead, Kindermann gives 2...Nf6 3. Bg5 (3. Bf4 can be met by either d6 or g6 when Black is doing fine while other moves will simply transpose to other anti-Dutch systems) 3...d5! 4. Bxf6 exf6 and the doubled f-pawns, though they look awkward, cover some key squares.


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Najdorf_Player YaBB Newbies Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 9 Location: singapore Joined: 02/15/04	Re: 1.d4 f5 2.Nc3 can black spice this up? Reply #1 - 04/11/04 at 06:56:37	Post Tools	Print Post
	i think an interesting way of playing this line is to play 2...d5. This move stops white from playing e4 and later on in the game, black can break open the position with ...c5. Not only that, the ...d5 move makes white's N on c3 look funny i bet this will "spice up" the game. Gd luck!


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alumbrado God Member Offline Esse quam videri bonus malebo Posts: 1418 Location: London Joined: 02/17/03 Gender:	Re: 1.d4 f5 2.Nc3 can black spice this up? 03/29/04 at 04:36:53	Post Tools	Print Post
	The whole 2.Nc3 g6 line has 'disaster' written all over it from Black's point of view. It is simply asking for trouble.

	If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
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