Woops, that's embarassing, my mistake!

Umm...doesn't that just lost a piece?  6...Bxa3 7.Nxa3 Qa5+?

Are we talking about the same position?

LeeRoth wrote on 01/17/08 at 03:14:11:


My initial thoughts: why should Black play ...c6 when White hasn't played c4?  How about 5.b3 Bd6! 6.0-0 Qe7?  If then 7.c4 c6 is a normal line, and I don't really see how White can avoid playing c2-c4.

I should point out that after 5.b3, play often results in a position that is reached in the main lines if Black neglects to play ..Qe7.

1.d4 f5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 e6 4.Nf3 d5 5.O-O Bd6 6.c4 c6 7.b3 O-O (better is 7... Qe7) 8.Ba3 Bxa3 9.Nxa3 Nbd7 10.Qc1 Qe7 11.Qb2



White has done well from here.  Here's one classic example:

11..b6 (11..Ne4) 12.Rac1 Bb7 13.Ne1! c5 14.dxc5 Nxc5 15.Nf3 Rfd8 16.cxd5 Bxd5 17.Nc4 +/- Rac8 18.Ne3 a5 19.Rfd1 g6 20.a3! Nce4 21.Ne5 Ba8 22.N5c4 b5? 23.Nxa5 Qa7 24.Rxc8 Rxc8 25.Bxe4 Nxe4 26.Qe5! +- Bd5 27.Rf1 Qxa5 28.Nxd5 Kf7 29.f3 Qxa3 30.fxe4 Qc5+ 31.Kg2 exd5 32.exf5 g5 33.Qe6+ Kf8 34.Qh6+ Ke7 35.Qxh7+ 1-0  Petrosian - Hoen, Havana ol 1966, Inf 2/64.

Geoff (and in answer to Viking's question about GM Stonewallers)...

You might look at GM Gleizerov's repertoire in Megabase or on TWIC. He plays the Dutch with 1...e6 and the French in just about every game, but against 1 Nf3 doesn't try to force things by playing 1...e6 or 1...f5, presumably because of the problems pointed out by others. Instead, he goes for a Slav/Baltic/Reti position with 1 Nf3 d5 2 d4 c6 3 c4 dxc4!? 4 e3 Be6, 1 Nf3 d5 2 d4 Bf5!? 3 c4 e6 or 1 Nf3 d5 2 c4 d4. Against 2 g3, he goes into a Neo-Grunfeld having avoided the main lines of the Grunfeld. Against 1 c4, he usually plays 1...e5, again heading for idiosyncratic variations.

This is a 2500+ player who plays the French and the Stonewall just about invariably against 1 e4 and 1 d4, so I suppose the concession of learning highly specific lines in other openings (i.e. not the whole Slav or Grunfeld or English) are worth it since he has a narrow repertoire. With less time to study than a professional, you could probably find more "Dutch" lines in 1 c4 e5 (i.e. those with an early f5) or the Slav/Semi-Slav (i.e. those with frequent Nf6-e4, f5 or f5 first) that make the positions more familiar while still using GM repertoire as a starting point.

Gleizerov's repertoire also underlines the point that you can't guarantee a Stonewall as Black even against 1 d4 e6. If White plays an early Nc3 and Nf3, delaying or abandoning Bg2 and threatening to get the Bc1 outside the pawn chain before playing e3, Black pretty much has to play Bb4 or Be7 followed by d6. But do look at Gleizerov's repertoire, especially as you also play the French. It's amazingly consistent and predictable for a GM.

Aagaard & Lund has just written a book on the Berlin Wall and then Jacob jumps on alone onto the next wall, i.e. Stonewall! Wow, where does he get his energy from!? 

Well I play e6 against most everything on move 1. I usually play the Stonewall, but from what I been reading, it is not good againt the Reti and English cause white can get in a quick e4. So all the books reconmend the classical against nf3 and c4. When white gets e4 in, you play e5 and its a game. Well I have to really start to study it, but thats probably what I am going to play.