(UTC)
  ChessPub Forum › Chess Publishing Openings › 1. e4 ... › Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
(Moderators: proustiskeen, Hadron)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine (Read 44485 times)
Dutch-Kalashnikov
Full Member
***
Offline


Ambivalent? Well, yes
and no.

Posts: 156
Location: Austria
Joined: 11/27/04
Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #61 - 12/30/04 at 02:18:06
Post Tools
@Mnb

might be true Wink
Fast is exactly what we Kalashnikovs are about; we are even so fast that we cant wait for a normal Sveshnikov;

seriously: I cant consider 9.Qxd6 if I want to castle 0-0-0; for the same reason I cant play in the third variation a6+b5 (but only e6); and scores for black in those variations are nearly as bad as in my variations according to my database
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10778
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #60 - 12/29/04 at 20:29:34
Post Tools
Dutch Kalashnikov draws his conclusions too fast.
3.Nf3 Qxd5 is just a Classical Scandinavian; since when is this very bad for Black?

3.Bb5+ Bd7 4.Bc4 Bg4 (it is OK if one does not like b5, but that does not proof this line very bad) 5.f3 Bf5 6.Nc3 Nbd7 7.Qe2 (I prefer 7.Nge2) Nb6 8.Bb3 Qd7 9.d6 may score very well for White, but Qxd6! 10.Nb5 Qd7 11.Qe5 o-o-o! 12.Nxa7+ Kb8 13.Nb5 Nfd5 14.a4 e6 15.Ne2 f6 (Emms) is not so clear.

3.d4 Bg4 4.f3 Bf5 5.Bb5+ Ndb7 6.c4 a6 is the important alternative.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #59 - 12/26/04 at 20:34:23
Post Tools
Quote:
Hi,
I am new here and followed with much interest the discussion about Alekhine opening/Scandinavian opening/opening repertoire (apologize my English).

I played the Sicilian for several years and now also want to change (like somebody in this thread before, asking for tipps concerning his opening repertoire) because I like the Kalashnikov but unfortunately you get nowadays more and more the Rossolimo and closed Sicilians etc. etc. and I hate this dull closed positions.

As I followed here the discussion and some people wrote nice comments about the Alekhine, I tried now myself the Alekhine and I must say that I cannot understand how somebody really want to play this opening!  Dont you guys think that it terrible to get the 4-pawns-setup on your board (under the aspect of space advantage this must be a bad dream for black)? Is this in your eyes really a nice position after e4 Nf6/e5 Nd5/d4 d6/c4 Nb6 and then f4 ?
And even, if Wite does not fight for the immediate advantage, it can get with 2. Nc3 d5/exd5 Nxd5/Bc4 a fine position that is known from the Vienna Game and offers good kingsideattacking-chances.

In my eyes (OK, I am only at the 1800-1900 level) the Alekhine looks horrible!!! 

I decided to go for the Scandinavian.



Good comments.  Your English is not so bad.

I think that if you're 1800-1900 you should play neither of these defenses, but only 1...e5!  But I've posted elsewhere about this, so I will not ride that particular hobby-horse right now.

I think Alekine's particularly IS a horrible choice for someone at this level of play.  It takes, in my view, considerable knowledge of chess to make Alekhine's work.  But it does work, or at any rate, come very close to working, if Black knows what he is doing.  It is rather brilliantly conceived, I think, right in line with how Steinitz played.  It's interesting that Fischer, an exponent of Steinitz, also sometimes used Alekhine's.
  
The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dutch-Kalashnikov
Full Member
***
Offline


Ambivalent? Well, yes
and no.

Posts: 156
Location: Austria
Joined: 11/27/04
Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #58 - 12/25/04 at 13:00:51
Post Tools
A final comment:
I played now 20 games with the Nf6-Scandinavian (on the black side) on ICC. My score was very good. But the only reason for this is that my opponents (average about 1800 on ICC) had not the smallest idea of this opening. 

There were 3 lines in my repertoire that I would consider very bad for black:

First line:
3. d4 Bg4, 4.f3 Bf5, 5. Bb5+ Nbd7, 6. c4 e6, 7. dxe6 Bxe6, 8. c5 ! Scores tremendous 81 % for White in the Megabase.

Second line:
3. Bb5+ Bd7, 4. Bc4 Bg4, 5. f3 Bf5, 6. Nc3 Sbd7, 7. Qe2!  is awful, scores after 9. d6! about 75 % for White (I dont like positions after 4...b5)

Third line:
3. Nf3 scores bad in Nxd5 and Qxd5 and vs. 3..Bg4

Conclusio: in 20 games I had not one opponent who had an idea what to do.
But if you meet somebody well-prepared, you are poor with this opening!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10778
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #57 - 12/12/04 at 20:41:56
Post Tools
Sure, otherwise I would not have mentioned it!
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Panda
Guest


Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #56 - 12/12/04 at 01:04:36
Post Tools
Quote:
A few months later I met him again and went for 4.e6! The game lasted less than 20 moves ....


But did you win?  Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10778
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #55 - 12/11/04 at 20:59:44
Post Tools
<after 3...Nfd7 4.e6!? is interesting pawn sacrifice>
Of course it is, as it is named the Spielmann Gambit!
Some eight years ago I had to win a game against the leader to win an unimportant tournament. I knew that my opponent would defend with 1.e4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.e5 Nfd7 and decided to play for a win without risk with 4.d4 transposing to the Steinitz Variation. Indeed I won in the far endgame. A few months later I met him again and went for 4.e6! The game lasted less than 20 moves ....
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Glenn Snow
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1720
Location: Franklin
Joined: 09/27/03
Gender: Male
Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #54 - 12/11/04 at 16:59:35
Post Tools
How about 1.e4 d5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.e5 Ng8!? recommended by Tim McGrew.  Although I can't see why a 2...Qxd5 player would want to avoid the previously mentioned 2.Nc3 dxe4 3.Nxe4 Qd5 variation.  Unless it's because of the deadly 3.f3 gambit attempting to transpose into the BDG while avoiding a couple of Black's defenses.  You can decide for yourself who it's deadly for.   Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Panda
Guest


Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #53 - 12/11/04 at 14:23:05
Post Tools
Personally, I have found 1.e4 d5 2.Nc3 e6! to work very well in blitz. Play usually continues 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.d4 c5 and now white thinks for a while and then reluctantly play 6.dxc5. 

I'm quite happy to play this typical basic french position, while I suspect that many of the white players usually play the advance variation against the french.  Grin
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dzambus
Junior Member
**
Offline


Let's play chess...

Posts: 65
Location: Poland
Joined: 12/07/04
Re:  Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #52 - 12/11/04 at 13:20:06
Post Tools
Quote:


Back to 1 e4 d5 2 Nc3, what's wrong with Nf6?  2 ... Nf6 3 e5 Nfd7, with a quick c5 and Nc6 is surely playable for black.  

NeX iRae


This is Alekhine Defence line by transposition,
1.e4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.e5 

i prefer 3...d4 or 3...Ne4 for Black, 
after 3...Nfd7 4.e6!? is interesting pawn sacrifice. 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
nexirae
Full Member
***
Offline


SMURF!  Soviet Men Under
Red Father!

Posts: 238
Location: Cornell Univ., Ithaca
Joined: 11/03/03
Gender: Male
Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #51 - 12/11/04 at 11:00:58
Post Tools
Don't worry too much about the BDGers being tempted into it after 1 e4 d5... Lips Sealed

We think the Scandinavian is too crappy to allow you the honor of our beloved gambit Wink .   

On a more serious note, you probably need to learn BDG lines of some sort for a defense to d4 anyway, so this just gives you more motivation to do so.  1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 exf3 5 Nxf3 Bf5! would suit Scandinavian players quite well.  Alekhine players may prefer 5 ... g6.   

Back to 1 e4 d5 2 Nc3, what's wrong with Nf6?  2 ... Nf6 3 e5 Nfd7, with a quick c5 and Nc6 is surely playable for black.   

NeX iRae
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
lnn2
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1504
Location: nc
Joined: 09/22/04
Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #50 - 12/11/04 at 09:23:55
Post Tools
Quote:
A serious deviation is 1.e4 d5 2.Nc3, transposing to the Sleipner-Van Geet Opening. There is a thread on this in the Flank Openings Section.


You might have missed my previous post. But it dealt precisely with this move. 2. Nc3 dxe4 3 Nxe4 Qd5!, and there is no deviation at all. 

Oh yes...  the Blackmar-Diemer gambit can be considered a 'serious' deviation, depending on your views on it....   (its crap to me   Grin)

I just placed an order for both Andrew Martin's and Emms' (2nd ed) Scandinavian. And i'm still waiting for my John Cox Alekhine. The best thing Santa can do for me right now is let me receive all 3 books before Christmas!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10778
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #49 - 12/11/04 at 08:53:25
Post Tools
A serious deviation is 1.e4 d5 2.Nc3, transposing to the Sleipner-Van Geet Opening. There is a thread on this in the Flank Openings Section.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
lnn2
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1504
Location: nc
Joined: 09/22/04
Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #48 - 12/11/04 at 07:20:21
Post Tools
Quote:
I quit the Alekhine when everyone started feeding me the exchange variation, not that it's terribly good for white, but it did feel like I was playing for a draw at most.

The Scandinavian doesn't have a similar spoil sport variation I think, or if there is one it's not very common as I haven't seen it yet!  Cheesy 

But the price is a position with less tension as there's no pawn contact  in the centre, still the games tend to become interesting after awhile anyway!


The exchange with cxd6 is definitely not a draw (at least not at sub-master level!). There was an interesting thread on the voronezh awhile back. 

I think the only spoil-sport for the scandinavian is probably 1. e4 d5 2. d3?. This occurs phenomenally often on internet blitz! If swapping queens is not suitable then defending the pawn with 2... c6 and 2... e6 lead to good transpositions to other openings. 

I just bought Secrets of Opening Surprises 2 and there was a good section on 1. e4 d5 2. Nc3 dxe4 3. Nxe4 Qd5. if 4. Ng3, then 4... Nc6 5. Nf3 e5! So White has no choice but to go back to normal lines with 4. Nc3. Certainly the great appeal of the scandinavian is the lack of viable alternatives for White to the main lines!  Grin

Goldin-Stripunsky at the US Championships (see chess.fm lecture) is a great game in the 3.. Qd6 scandinavian.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TalJechin
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no secret ingredient.

Posts: 2892
Location: Malmö
Joined: 08/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #47 - 12/11/04 at 04:56:56
Post Tools
I quit the Alekhine when everyone started feeding me the exchange variation, not that it's terribly good for white, but it did feel like I was playing for a draw at most.

The Scandinavian doesn't have a similar spoil sport variation I think, or if there is one it's not very common as I haven't seen it yet!  Cheesy 

But the price is a position with less tension as there's no pawn contact  in the centre, still the games tend to become interesting after awhile anyway!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5
Topic Tools
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2026. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge