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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine (Read 44948 times)
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Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #16 - 12/07/04 at 21:15:20
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Just to add...(This has been said many times in the forum, but maybe Dutch-Kalashnikov doesn't know about it)...you shouldn't pay too much attention on the statistics.
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #15 - 12/07/04 at 19:30:57
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Well I almost agree.  There are only a few opening variations that are so boring that almost anyone could draw them.  I do think most of us club players do put too much emphasis on the opening.  I think it was Aagaard who said something to the effect of, "In nearly any game one is going to be presented with chances.  Its up to each individual to make the most of them."
  
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Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #14 - 12/07/04 at 19:00:00
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Quote:
In your intitial post you said you hated the dull positions that arose from some of the anti-sicilian systems.  I can certainly sympathize with your feelings but what defence doesn't have this problem?


Like anyone else, there are lines I like to play and those I don't, but there's no such thing as a dull position--just positions in which the beauty of the struggle escapes us.   Wink

For example, in looking for a way to counter the Slav a number of years ago, I spent some time exploring the Exchange variation (1 d4 d5 2 c4 c6 3 cxd5).  I was playing against stronger opposition, so it was a useful tool to try and simplify and play for the draw.  As I analyzed the variations, I found myself intrigued by some of the positions of what is typically regarded as a dull and drawish opening.

Having dabbled with the Kalashnikov myself, it certainly is a swashbuckling way to play, but careful preparation for responses to 2 c3 yielded interest in that variation (not to mention some rather strong results!).  When preparing our opening repertoire, I think amateur players start with the romantic or "desirable" lines, which renders the more practical analysis of sidelines and less topical variations (the ones we're likely to play at least 75-80% of the time) much less attractive. 

Just an observation, but any position can be rich and interesting.  Chess is chess!   Grin
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #13 - 12/07/04 at 18:13:28
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I don't think its nearly so simple.  I mean if that's all White had to do why did Kasparov have so much trouble against Anand.  If you're a subscriber there is some good material that you should review.  After 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 (I don't completely trust 3...Qd6 either but your view toward the Ne5/Bf4 threat is misguided.  (...Nc6 hardly being the only way to counter the threat) 4.d4 and now either 4...Nf6 and ...Bf5 (or maybe ...Be6 against the Ne5 idea) or the immediate 4...Bf5 is actually quite solid for Black if he knows a few critical variations (like when to play ...Kxd7 after a White Nxd7 move or how to meet various sharp d5 ideas).

Having said that, perhaps this isn't the opening for you if it goes this much against the grain.  In your intitial post you said you hated the dull positions that arose from some of the anti-sicilian systems.  I can certainly sympathize with your feelings but what defence doesn't have this problem?  Maybe the Pirc or Modern?
  
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Dutch-Kalashnikov
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Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #12 - 12/07/04 at 05:31:40
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Unfortunately the analysis of the Qa5-Scandinavian brought up even worse results  Cry

against the typical c6 + e6 black-setup White scores with a d4 + Nf3 + Bc4 + Bd2 + Qe2 + 0-0-0 and a pawn storn on the black king-side an impressing 72 % !

I fear, the Scandinavian - if played correct by White - really sucks! The only hope: White dont knows this as he never played it with black.
  
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Dutch-Kalashnikov
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Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #11 - 12/07/04 at 02:30:58
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Some short analysis already showed me that I would not appreciate the 3...Qd6-setup.
The white threats of Ne5 + Bc4 and Nd5 + Lf4 are tremendous.
To not allow White a strong Ne5+Bf4-setup you should be able to meet Ne5 with Nc6.
But to do so, you must before play a6 to avoid Bb5.
This means, that you have only the choice of an early 4…a6 or to meet h3 not with Bh5 but with Bxf3.
But even then White can get the Bf4-setup with an early Nge2, you can`avoid that.
« Last Edit: 12/07/04 at 06:29:13 by Dutch-Kalashnikov »  
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tRe: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #10 - 12/06/04 at 23:19:01
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There's certainly a lot left to be explored after 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qd6.  I don't think all of White's best plans have been crystalyzed yet.  For a lot on this defence get Michael Melts excellent book "Scandinavian Defense: The Dynamic 3...Qd6".  For what its worth I think the biggest threat to the Scandanavian is 3.Nf3! reserving the possibility of c4 before Nc3.
  
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Dutch-Kalashnikov
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Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #9 - 12/06/04 at 12:32:25
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...especialy if White then follows up with a quick Qd2 and then 0-0-0, d6 dont seems to be the best place for the Lady
  
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Dutch-Kalashnikov
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Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #8 - 12/06/04 at 12:17:26
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Thanks for your ideas.

After a first quick look at 3...Qd6 in the Scandinavian I must say, that this could get quite uncomfortable for Black, if White sets up with d4 + Ne5 + Bf4.

Maybe I am wrong, but this seems to correct my first opinion that on d6 the Queen is probably more safe then on a5.
« Last Edit: 12/07/04 at 15:32:59 by Dutch-Kalashnikov »  
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Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #7 - 12/06/04 at 10:13:03
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c6 is a security move, so in a way black accepts that he'll be playing somewhat slowly without exerting immediate pressure on white if he plays c7-c6. On the plus side it's a very solid move and the queen can escape to c7 and d8. Not playing c7-c6 and e.g. instead Nc6 is much more agressive, but also riskier - both sides can go wrong more easily e.g. after 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.d4 Nf6 5.Nf3 Bg4 6.Bc4 Nc6 white is already under a lot of pressure and has to worry about keeping things under control.

As to a3+b4 plans, I'd say that sometimes black should just castle to the kingside. Always casteling queenside doesn't really work.
  
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Dutch-Kalashnikov
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Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #6 - 12/06/04 at 06:09:37
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Crazy thing: when looking through the Chessbase database for 3..Qa5 I found some players rated over 2200 Elo that did never play c6. 
Isnt that too risky for the Queen to play a Qa5-setup without an escape?
  
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Dutch-Kalashnikov
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Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #5 - 12/06/04 at 05:51:09
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@Alumbrado: thanks

What you folks think about 3...Qd6 in the Scandinavian ?

Wouldnt it have the advantage, that the queen is not so much target then at a5 ? Or can White even there play later on Bf4? Or is it compared with a5 too passive?

Just looked at Chessbase 8.0 and was very surprised to have with a basis of 1200 games a sensationally good statistique (for black) of 53 % white / 47 % black in 3...Qd6 !
  
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Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #4 - 12/06/04 at 04:46:36
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Oh and by the way, wlecome to the forum  Grin
  

If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
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Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #3 - 12/06/04 at 04:45:48
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I think you probably took the right decision in going for the Scandinavian ahead of the Alekhine.  Not that there is anything wrong with the Alekhine, it is just that it seems to me it requires greater understanding from Black.  The Scandinavian is much easier to play.

As regards meeting the a3, b4 plan, the trick is to make sure you can meet an eventual b4-b5 with ...c6-c5, challenging the centre and keeping the queenside files closed for the time being.

Besides that specific point, you should just follow the general principle to meet an attack on the flank, with action in the centre.  In this case, either ...c5 or ...e5 are indicated - these are in any case Black's standard plans in this position type
  

If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
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Re: Opening repertoire: Scandinavian vs. Alekhine
Reply #2 - 12/06/04 at 03:55:10
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When trying out my "new" opening, the Scandinavian with 15/0 games on ICC, there occured a position where I did feel rather unwell.

In "my" Scandinavian I play the Queen to a5 and then play (of course e6 and c6) a 0-0-0 looking for a tactical battle, as White usually goes for 0-0.

One White-player built up with 0-0 and then followed with a3 +b4 ...

Looked quite dangerous (danger of trapping my Queen) and White thus could build up a kingside-attack "for free" by hunting my Queen.

Is this (a3 + b4) really uncomfortable for black (my question to Scandinavian-players) or does psychology fool me as I am not used to have my Queen in the middle of the battle?
  
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