[quote author=Michael Ayton link=1106473239/45#58 date=1107153768]H'm ... interesting. But I'd still like to know what you guys / Kindermann think is wrong with 7 ...Qe8 8 d5 Na6 9 Rb1 (best??) Nc5[/quote]

It`s probably because white gets a multisided attack and full initiative after [b]10.Nb5 Qd7 11.Be3 a6 12.Nc3 e6 [/b](12...e5 is out of question, 12...e5 13.Nxe5! dxe5 Bxc5 winning a pawn and a tempo for white!) [b]13.Ng5 exd5 14.Nxd5 a5[/b]

It`s also possible for white to play...10.b4 which often leads to lines that black must exchange his dark squared bishop for a knight, giving white a positional edge.


[quote author=Michael Ayton link=1106473239/45#58 date=1107153768]and what you think might be Black's best set-up(s) after 8 d5 a5 9 Rb1 Na6 10 a3 ...[/quote]

I like playing an immidiate 10...e5 but after dxe (e.p) [b]black must recapture with the knight!! [/b]---> 10...e5 11.dxe (e.p.) Nc5 12.Nd5 Nxe6 13.Nxf6 Rxf6 and now everything is ready for the "Dutch lance"... 14.Qc2 f4 severely weakens white king`s defence.

Capturing the d pawn with the bishop simply gives white the advantage after 11...Bxe6 12.Nd4 Bc8 13.e4 fxe4 14.Nxe4 and the 12...c6, soon will send black`s light-squared bishop to oblivion after 13.Ne4

Finally, capturing with the Queen, seems that looses material after 11...Qxe6 12.Nd5 Nxd5 13.Ng5! Qe7 14Qxd5+ Kh8 15.Qxa5

Dutch-Kalashnikov wrote on 01/23/05 at 04:40:37:


I consider white`s 8. Qb3 much weaker than 8. d5. Personally I don`t encounter any serious tactical problems after 
1.d4 f5 2.g3 g6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Bg2 Bg7 5.0-0 0-0 6.c3 d6 7.Nc3 Qe8 8.Qb3 e5! 

From the other hand, no serious white player will play8. d5 a5 9.Ng4? because its a big favour for black after 9...e5! 10. de5 h6 11.Nh3 Qe6

I also believe that g6 being a weakness for the black Kingside is a myth. Actually I am convinced that it`s one of black`s best weapons. The Kingside structure in the Leningrad, gives white the false impression that the black king is exposed. Usually driving white into massive assaults early in the game, with no success. The truth is that if black can keep his dark-square bishop in the game and the rook in f file, then black king is perfectly safe and actually he is active in the game unlike his white counterpart. 

Those were some excellent and inspiring games 
I have collected the games in an attachment - so others dont have to repeat my database search...

In the Timoscenko-Naumkin game I wonder why 13.Bxb7 was not played... Is it too risky? A variation could be 13.Bxb7 Ng4 14.Nf3 Ra7 15.Bxa6 Rxa6 16. Kg2...

Thanks Knut for pointing out the Rb8 & b5 variation vs white's e4 expansion. The feared e4 break may be coming but as soon Nc3 leaves his post black seams to get interesting play with b5!

btw,so far I have to say that I am quite impressed by Williams book. Another good dutch book in the collection 

I agree with Knut regarding the Classical Dutch books - with limited time (I have similar family commitments!) I find Williams and McDonald's books very useful and refer to them often - but Pinski's book left me cold.

I don't own the Pinski book. I found it sufficient, to combine my trusted works with a database research.
William just give 7.Nc3 Qe8 8.b3 a5 += "without any risk." The latter is something I dispute.

Thanx MNB!

...and when black plays 7..a5 (without b3 being played yet) it is because he wants to be flexible and expects b3 to come later anyway (because it the only critical way.... as early b4 variants now are ruled out)?!  

I feel that the posistions from the IZ (especially in the ..a5 variations!) are very "floating" and unclear....
To have some clarity I have so far played Haywards Nc6!? plans (with satifactory results). I guess another move that also goes for some clarification is williams 7..Ne4.

The move a5 was invented by Simagin as a way to prepare .... e6-e5. Already shortly after WWII it was discovered, that after 7...Qe8 White can prevent this by playing 8.b3/9.Ba3 (Botvinnik). The move a5 is designed, to answer Ba3 with the blocking Nb8-a6 (sometimes c6) - b4. An example is Portisch-Farago, HUNch 1968. It is confusing, that Black does not always execute this manoeuvre, see eg Psachis-Vaisser, Groningen Open 1993. The move Nb4 itself is especially attractive, when White has a queen on c2 - usually not a good square in the IZ. White has a little trick by playing Bc1-a3-b2 winning a tempo if Black has to play Na6-b4-a6. But all in all I think Black can get satisfactory play after 9.Ba3 (or some other stage).
Of course White often just plays Bb2. Then the plan is something like c6, Nc7, Bd7, Rb8 preparing counterplay with b7-b5. Not all the moves are always necessary. Of course Black keeps an eye to e6-e5 anyway. One of the unanswered questions is how to evaluate the Qh5 move.
Very unexplored is 7...a5 followed by c6 and Qc7, another way to prepare e6-e5. Originally the idea of 7...a5 was to answer 8.Re1 (this plan was thought critical in the 50-ies) with Ne4 and 8.b3 with Na6 again.
Only ideas, no lines, as this is the main part of my email chess preparation.