Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Has anyone checked out Starting Out: The Dutch (Read 47438 times)
TalJechin
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no secret ingredient.

Posts: 2892
Location: Malmö
Joined: 08/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Has anyone checked out Starting Out: The Dutch
Reply #10 - 05/08/05 at 06:16:48
Post Tools
I've just got it and so far only glanced at some variations but it does seem like a good introduction to the whole Dutch - those who want to delve deeper into one or more of the three main lines dealt with, i.e. Stonewall, Classical or Leningrad (as expected he doesn't seem to mention the Antoshin, Krause etc) will no doubt need to stock up on Aagaard, Kindermann, Beim, Williams and Pinski etc.

McDonald seems to do a good job of explaining the dutch for newbies as he takes time out to point out a lot of traps like ...d5? in the staunton losing to a Qh5+. And in the 2.Bg5 section he takes on 2...h6 3.Bh4 c5? (which is hardly mentioned in most books) - a line I've used many times in internet bliz, a year ago I checked my statistics with it = about 80% as black(!) which isn't bad considering the line is complete (but fun!) rubbish! Cheesy

In the Leningrad I was glad to see that he devotes some space to 7...Nc6!? (8.d5 Na5/Ne5) an enterprising move which allt the Leningrad repertoire makers usually dismiss with "8.d5! +/-" which is hardly the full story. Despite the limited space I'd say he manages to mention the most essential stuff - the trouble for newbies getting interested in this line would be to find more about it, as Michael Jensen's articles in NiC Yearbook are probably the only recent writing on it. (DragonSlayer, maybe you should consider writing a full book on it!?)
« Last Edit: 05/08/05 at 08:31:42 by TalJechin »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gss
Guest


Re: Has anyone checked out Starting Out: The Dutch
Reply #9 - 04/13/05 at 20:58:01
Post Tools
I have just received the book. My initial impression is favourable. There is a good introduction to the Dutch and to the 3 mainlines (Stonewall, Classical. Lenigrad). I like the fact that Neil does not "oversell" the Dutch and points out its risks as well as good points. 

Other books in the Starting Out series (for example the King's Indian book by Gallagher and the Grunfeld book by Aagaard also are useful for experienced players and at times cover the latest developments (i.e at the time of writing) in some detail. I was a little disappointed in Neil's coverage of the Lenigrad, particularly the a5 line recommended by Kindermann which is mentioned only in passing. The coverage of the Classical looks to be more thorough, at least on first impressions. One gets the impression if he had another 30 pages to work with he could have covered certain lines in more detail.

Overall a good book.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
alumbrado
God Member
*****
Offline


Esse quam videri bonus
malebo

Posts: 1418
Location: London
Joined: 02/17/03
Gender: Male
Re: Has anyone checked out Starting Out: The Dutch
Reply #8 - 04/11/05 at 05:19:30
Post Tools
I think it is a good book, but is very unbalanced in favour of Black.  There is very little advice on move orders or typical plans for White.
  

If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gss
Guest


Re: Has anyone checked out Starting Out: The Dutch
Reply #7 - 04/10/05 at 21:06:02
Post Tools
I have just ordered this from Amazon and will let people know what I think. Neil McDonald is a good writer and his book in the same series Starting Out English was a useful effort. In the meantime has anyone even glanced at Starting Out Dutch? John Elburg on the Chess Mail site seems to like the book but then again has he seems to praise nearly every book.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dragonslayer
Full Member
***
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 248
Location: Odense
Joined: 06/13/04
Re: Has anyone checked out Starting Out: The Dutch
Reply #6 - 03/14/05 at 14:06:30
Post Tools
MNb,
Actually the Dutch volume is the only of Schwarz' green cover series of opening books I own. In the pre-database era Schwarz' amount of material is quite amazing.
It was also the first opening monograph I acquired and hence I, like you, played the IZ (of course my famous compatriot Bent Larsen also had a lot to do with this).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10780
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Has anyone checked out Starting Out: The Dutch
Reply #5 - 03/10/05 at 20:33:47
Post Tools
Amazing and if possible I will follow your advice.
The Rubinstein Variation is 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 and now Nf6 or Bb4; White does not play a kingside fianchetto.
All these variations - including the extra ones I mentioned - are in Schwarz 1964 book (more than 350 pages, but with 185 illustrative games). It does not cover the Leningrad 7...Qe8 for obvious reasons, but has a paragraph on 7...e6, one on omitting ...d6 and one on playing the knight to Nh6. With Schwarz you be sure of one thing: he mentions everything he could lay hands on. Three examples: analysis by Schneider in the Hungarian booklet "Holland vélem"; a game Mileika-Liebert, 1961 (1.d4 f5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bg5 e6). After 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5 Schwarz thinks g6! best; after 3.h4 Bg7 4.h5 he gives a a game Gipslis-Reise,1960.

As the Dutch was relatively popular in the 50-ies, it is really worth having too; unless you are only interested in a modern version of the Leningrad.
Concerning the IZ I find this book the ideal base for explorations.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dragonslayer
Full Member
***
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 248
Location: Odense
Joined: 06/13/04
Re: Has anyone checked out Starting Out: The Dutch
Reply #4 - 03/10/05 at 12:12:27
Post Tools
MNb, I missed your 1000th post  Wink I guess that makes you an ÜberGod.

First of all Bellin's book is not 150 pages it is 185 (not including introductory text). Secondly, the typeface is smaller and the density of text on a page is greater than those "Starting out" books.

Bellin treats:
- The Alekhine variation: pp. 123-133.
- The Dutch Indian (1.d4 f5 2.c4 e6 3.g3 Nf6 4.Bg2 Bb4+) pp. 105-114.
- Hort-Anthoshi variation: pp. 48-56.
- Stonewall with Be7 and Bd6, Leningrad and Ilyin-Zenevski.

Of White's anti-Dutch 2nd move choices he covers:
- 2.e4 pp. 57-65
- 2.Bg5 pp. 66-76.
- 2.Nc3 pp. 77-87.
- 2.Nf3 pp.88-90.
- 2.g4 pp. 90-91.
- 2.h3 pp. 91-92.
- 2.Qd3 pp. 92-93.
- 2.e3 pp. 93-94.

He does not treat:
- b6 lines (ther are a few like 2.Nf3 e6 3.Bf4 Nf6 4.e3 b6)
- Krause variation (early Nc6)

I am not sure which one is the Rubinstein variation, so I cannot check that one.

I have this book (from 1990) and can tell you that this is THE book on the Dutch and the reason I switched from the Ilyin-Zhenevski to the Leningrad.
Moreover, for mindless hacks like myself the variations Bellin recommends are the  "right" ones, e.g. 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bg5 e6 (not that Stonewall stuff, though he also looks at 2...d5 3.Bg5 g6) and 2.Bg5 h6 (2...g6 is also covered). In the Leningrad 7...Qe8, 7...c6 and 7...Nc6 are all covered.
It is dated but get it if you can!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10780
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Has anyone checked out Starting Out: The Dutch
Reply #3 - 03/08/05 at 22:24:01
Post Tools
Did Bellin also treat the Alekhine Variation, lines with Bb4+, lines with a Black queen's fianchetto, the Hort-Antosjin-Variation and the Krause Variation? Not to mention the Rubinstein Variation and all White 2nd move options?
And in the Iljin-Zjenevsky, did Bellin mention 1.d4 f5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 e6 4.Nf3 Be7 5.o-o o-o 6.c4 d6 7.Nc3 Qe8 8.Re1 Qg6 9.Qb3 ? This is nor in Williams, neither in Pinsky, but leads to good chances for White according to Taimanov in 1980. For the sake of clarity: I have found two antidotes.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fernando Semprun
Senior Member
****
Offline


Be nice to others. Life
is to be enjoyed!

Posts: 402
Location: Madrid
Joined: 04/29/03
Gender: Male
Re: Has anyone checked out Starting Out: The Dutch
Reply #2 - 03/08/05 at 02:54:07
Post Tools
Well, winning with the Dutch by Bellin did all this and a rather good book, may I add...
  

Fernando Semprun
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10780
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Has anyone checked out Starting Out: The Dutch
Reply #1 - 03/07/05 at 21:15:47
Post Tools
I am curious as well. To introduce in about 150 pages an opening with different systems as the Stonewall, the Leningrad, the Iljin-Zjenevsky with all their subvariations looks almost impossible to me. These three are only a few ....
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Alex Mitchell
Guest


Has anyone checked out Starting Out: The Dutch
03/07/05 at 15:37:22
Post Tools
Has anyone picked this book up or checked it out?  Is it worth it?  Hows the coverage regarding the Leningrad, Stonewall, Classical and anti-Dutch lines?  Any help or info would be appriciated.  Thanks
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo