(UTC)
  ChessPub Forum › Chess Publishing Openings › Flank Openings › Réti › Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
(Moderators: proustiskeen, Hadron)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there (Read 30633 times)
Jonathan Tait
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 617
Location: Nottingham
Joined: 07/11/06
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #40 - 07/15/06 at 09:55:58
Post Tools
OstapBender wrote on 07/13/06 at 18:53:04:

Really? Shocked

I'll admit I hadn't thought this through in any depth, so maybe it's just a bias I have which turns out to be incorrect.  The bias is based on liking the Nimzo-Indian as Black and the assumption that White could do a lot with the extra tempo.  Undecided

This may not be an ideal example, but 1. b3 d5 2. Bb2 Nf6 3. e3 e6 4. f4 c5 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. Bb5 illustrates the type of colors-reversed position that I thought Black should avoid.  To me this position doesn't look comfortable for Black (i.e. I worry that Ne5 is coming to put pressure on the pinned c6-knight).


It's interesting. White is playing a reversed Nimzo-Indian / Queen's Indian / Dutch Defence and has achieved all the characteristic reversed moves (...Bb4, ...b6, ...Bb7, ...f5) with full control over e5.

Smiley

Nevertheless, Black is fine strategically (as long as s/he maintains the pawn structure) and the position isn't that sharp. So Black should be OK (as long as Nimzowitsch isn't playing White!) and can find counterplay on the queenside (...b5, ...c4) and challenge anything coming into e5 (e.g. by ...Nfd7, ...f6 or ...Bf6).

All the same, it's a rather provocative way to play as Black. There are a lot simpler methods against the Nimzo-Larsen. Hold back the Nb8 until White has committed the light-squared bishop, for instance.

OstapBender wrote on 07/13/06 at 18:53:04:
1. b3 d5 2. Bb2 Nf6 3. e3 e6 4. f4 c5 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. Bb5

Here 6...a6 looks like bad idea, but I guess Black could be OK after something like 6...Bd7.


Yes, ...a6 is a mistake. White will generally take on c6 anyway (to increase the hold over e5) and ...a6 just gives away a tempo. Yes, 6...Bd7 is correct, preserving the pawn structure.
  
blog inspired by Bronstein's book, but using my own games: http://200opengames.blogspot.co.uk/
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
OstapBender
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no spoon.

Posts: 1491
Location: not in Kansas anymore
Joined: 10/16/04
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #39 - 07/14/06 at 05:23:28
Post Tools
Thanks MNb,

I realize that the position I asked about could just as easily have arisen from Bird's Opening and therefore readily understand your point that it is a colors-reversed Classical Dutch and not a Nimzo-Indian (I didn't claim that it was, but this is beside the point).  Your comment about delaying ...c5 and your ...c6/...Bf5 suggestion look like good advice.

Black can also do well by playing 1...e5 followed by 2...d6 by the way...

But none of this anything to do with the question I was asking, which was whether Black was OK in the position which arose from the example line that I gave.

(the question was prompted by Jonathan Tait's very brief comment suggesting that Black has no problems in these types of positions - i.e., what I described as colors-reversed Nimzo-Indian/Queen's Indian/Dutch type positions which I suggested that Black should avoid.)


  
"If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates."  -Jay Leno
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10780
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #38 - 07/14/06 at 02:17:01
Post Tools
1.b3 d5 2.Bb2 Nf6 3.e3 e6 4.f4 c5 5.Nf3 Nc6 6.Bb5
This is not a Nimzo-Indian, but a Classical Dutch with colours reversed: 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e6 4.Nf3 Bb4 5.Bd2 o-o 6.e3 b6 7.Bd3 Bb7.
After 1.b3 d5 2.Bb2 Nf6 3.e3 e6 5.f4 Black should postpone ...c5 a bit. To me 3...c6 followed by 4...Bf5 looks even more solid.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
OstapBender
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no spoon.

Posts: 1491
Location: not in Kansas anymore
Joined: 10/16/04
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #37 - 07/13/06 at 18:53:04
Post Tools
Quote:
OstapBender wrote on 07/13/06 at 14:38:26:
Black has no problems if he avoids colors-reversed Nimzo-Indian/Queen's Indian/Dutch type positions.


Black has no problems even then

Really? Shocked

I'll admit I hadn't thought this through in any depth, so maybe it's just a bias I have which turns out to be incorrect.  The bias is based on liking the Nimzo-Indian as Black and the assumption that White could do a lot with the extra tempo.  Undecided

This may not be an ideal example, but 1. b3 d5 2. Bb2 Nf6 3. e3 e6 4. f4 c5 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. Bb5 illustrates the type of colors-reversed position that I thought Black should avoid.  To me this position doesn't look comfortable for Black (i.e. I worry that Ne5 is coming to put pressure on the pinned c6-knight).

Here 6...a6 looks like bad idea, but I guess Black could be OK after something like 6...Bd7.

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks,
Ostap
  
"If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates."  -Jay Leno
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jonathan Tait
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 617
Location: Nottingham
Joined: 07/11/06
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #36 - 07/13/06 at 16:38:11
Post Tools
OstapBender wrote on 07/13/06 at 14:38:26:
Black has no problems if he avoids colors-reversed Nimzo-Indian/Queen's Indian/Dutch type positions.


Black has no problems even then
  
blog inspired by Bronstein's book, but using my own games: http://200opengames.blogspot.co.uk/
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
OstapBender
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no spoon.

Posts: 1491
Location: not in Kansas anymore
Joined: 10/16/04
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #35 - 07/13/06 at 14:38:26
Post Tools
Black has no problems if he avoids colors-reversed Nimzo-Indian/Queen's Indian/Dutch type positions.

1.b3 e5 2.Bb2 d6 seems like a pretty simple remedy, and supporting e5 with 2...Nc6 is also fine (even 2...f6 is good I think).
  
"If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates."  -Jay Leno
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2928
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #34 - 07/13/06 at 11:15:47
Post Tools
Quote:
Quote:
...And now i contimplate playing a b3,b6 repertoire.....


Its kind of funny, but I feel that 1-,b6 is the most irritating reply of them all to the Larsen Undecided
Black can mirror white for quite a long time, (often producing a dull game Tongue)....



Yes - another reason why 1.b3 will not shake the earth - although possibly the best bet for White is to avoid lines given above with Be2 (which lets face it will never trouble Black) and transpose to a QID with d4 and Bd3

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jonathan Tait
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 617
Location: Nottingham
Joined: 07/11/06
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #33 - 07/12/06 at 18:00:34
Post Tools
TopNotch wrote on 06/30/05 at 17:10:32:
1.b3 e5! =


no need for the "e5!" part I think

1.b3 = will do

Wink
  
blog inspired by Bronstein's book, but using my own games: http://200opengames.blogspot.co.uk/
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
basqueknight
Ex Member


Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #32 - 11/19/05 at 22:42:55
Post Tools
Out of respect for the larsen player i couldnt play 1...b6. I would feel like a lessor player for doing so. I would play somthing like e5 or d5. Trying for the better game. 

Any one else feel this way?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
lost highway
Senior Member
****
Offline


I may be crazy.

Posts: 471
Joined: 06/17/05
Gender: Male
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #31 - 11/19/05 at 13:12:08
Post Tools
Quote:


Its kind of funny, but I feel that 1-,b6 is the most irritating reply of them all to the Larsen Undecided
Black can mirror white for quite a long time, (often producing a dull game Tongue)....

Something like this:  1. b3 b6 2. Bb2 Bb7 3. e3 e6 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. Be2 Be7 6. O-O O-O 7. d4 d5 8. Nbd2 Nbd7 9. c4 c5 10. Rc1 Rc8 and then the mirror gets taken away with 11. cxd5 Nxd5 12. a3, but it's still dead even.

- Lost Highway

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Viking
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 673
Location: Norway
Joined: 10/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #30 - 11/19/05 at 12:15:52
Post Tools
Quote:
...And now i contimplate playing a b3,b6 repertoire.....


Its kind of funny, but I feel that 1-,b6 is the most irritating reply of them all to the Larsen Undecided
Black can mirror white for quite a long time, (often producing a dull game Tongue)....
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
lost highway
Senior Member
****
Offline


I may be crazy.

Posts: 471
Joined: 06/17/05
Gender: Male
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #29 - 11/18/05 at 19:05:57
Post Tools
Quote:
And now i contimplate playing a b3,b6 repertoire. I dont know how long it will take untill i convert over to them but i would say a few months.

Well, good luck.

- Lost Highway
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
basqueknight
Ex Member


Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #28 - 11/18/05 at 18:58:56
Post Tools
Thanks for the games ill have to seriously check out the book! 

Its Funny i have been a theory man most of my carreer. And now i contimplate playing a b3,b6 repertoire. I dont know how long it will take untill i convert over to them but i would say a few months. I am enjoying my Sicilian alot and i like the complications so much.

The B3 and B6 systems produce highly original positions which may or may not be complicated. Untill then i am sticking with my KG/Ruy Lopez my Najdorf and Im playing the Buddpest and Kings Indian right now. Here is hoping though that people take a closer look at the off beat like the Larsen and owens. 

If they dont pick it up it will at least entertain!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Viking
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 673
Location: Norway
Joined: 10/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #27 - 11/17/05 at 13:02:39
Post Tools
Just to give you an idea I post some of the games mentioned in the book about this Bird-like set-up:

[Event "Muenster op"]
[Site "Muenster"]
[Date "1991.??.??"]
[Round "7"]
[White "Vokac,Marek"]
[Black "Vepkhvishvili,Varlam"]
[Result "1/2"]
[Eco "A03"]
1.b3 d5 2.Bb2 Nf6 3.e3 Bf5 4.f4 e6 5.Nf3 Be7 6.Nc3 Nbd7 7.Ne2 h6 8.Ng3 Bh7 
9.Bd3 0-0 10.Bxh7+ Nxh7 11.0-0 Bf6 12.Bxf6 Nhxf6 13.d4 c5 14.Ne5 Rc8 15.c4 cxd4 16.Qxd4 dxc4 
17.Nxc4 Nc5 18.Nd6 Rc6 19.Rad1 Nd5 20.Nc4 Qh4 21.Ne5 Rcc8 22.Rc1 b6 23.b4 Na4 24.Ne4 Rcd8 
25.g3 Qh3 26.Nf2 Qh5 27.Rfd1 Nac3 28.Rxc3 Nxc3 29.Qxd8 Rxd8 30.Rxd8+ Kh7 31.g4 Qh4 32.Nxf7 g6 
33.Rd7 Kg8 34.Ne5 Nd5 35.g5 hxg5 36.Rd8+ Kg7 37.Rd7+ Kg8 38.Rd8+ Kg7 39.Rd7+ Kg8 1/2

[Event "Ceske Budejovice op"]
[Site "Ceske Budejovice"]
[Date "1993.??.??"]
[Round "9"]
[White "Vokac,Marek"]
[Black "Dranov,Aleksandar"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Eco "A01"]
1.b3 c5 2.Bb2 b6 3.e3 Bb7 4.f4 e6 5.Nf3 Nf6 6.Bd3 d6 7.0-0 Nbd7 8.Nc3 Be7 
9.e4 0-0 10.Qe2 e5 11.fxe5 Nxe5 12.Nxe5 dxe5 13.Kh1 Kh8 14.Bc4 Qd4 15.d3 Qd7 16.Rf5 Bd6 
17.Raf1 a6 18.a4 Bc6 19.Qf3 Qe7 20.g4 Ra7 21.g5 Nh5 22.Qxh5 g6 23.Qh6 gxf5 24.Rxf5 Qd8 
25.Rf6 Rd7 26.Bd5 Bxd5 27.Nxd5 Re8 28.Rf5 Bf8 29.Rxe5 f6 30.Rxe8 Qxe8 31.Nxf6  1-0


Btw, the Jacobs Tait book is very good; Packed with analysis & ideas Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
basqueknight
Ex Member


Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #26 - 11/15/05 at 10:49:06
Post Tools
I have not as i havent picked a copy of it up yet do you know what their analysis is on it is?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Viking
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 673
Location: Norway
Joined: 10/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #25 - 11/14/05 at 02:43:08
Post Tools
I have also played the Bird-like setup against 1-,d5, but only after the moveorder: b3 d5 Bb2 Nf6 e3 & f4!?
If u are "lucky", black plays c5 as well (when Bb5 is strong)...

Have u tried the Nc3/Bd3/Ne2 plan as given by Jacobs & Tait in "Nimzo-Larsen Attack" !? 
If so, what is your experiance with it? 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
basqueknight
Ex Member


Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #24 - 11/13/05 at 14:22:21
Post Tools
Thanks you guys this is very interesting. I will often transpose in to a bird or just a reversed ducth after Bb2. I think this is one of the ways to play aggresively in the Larsen. I also play english type postions some times or if i am a in an uncanny mood the hippo as white! Any way it is a very rich system. I am enjoying my test run results so far. And have enjoyed alot of the unique positions that arise making my love of tactical play a trump most of the time. 


what do you guys think of B3 Nc6. I was thinking it would either transpose into one of the main lines with e5 and Nc6 but it could also go into an owens with colors reversed or even somthing highly original. like a dutch reversed and black has played the queer move Nc6. 

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Viking
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 673
Location: Norway
Joined: 10/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #23 - 11/13/05 at 13:49:49
Post Tools
@
I have to agree with you.  However, few would play f4 before setting the bishop on b2.

Yes, few Larsen players probably would. But alot of Bird players play this way...  Wink


@
....and the opening has transposed into the   Capablanca variation of the Reti.   A line that many professionals consider to be safe for black.  However,  I have had great success with the Na3 idea  
  
This Na3!? plan of yours reminds me of Timman -Jussupow Linares 1992. The game impressed me alot the first time I saw it (outplaying black with "simple" play). The game had a different move order though. Enjoy Grin:

1.Nf3 d5 2.g3 c6 3.Bg2 Bg4 4.b3 Nd7 5.Bb2 Ngf6 6.d3 e6 7.0-0 Bd6 8.c4 0-0 
9.Na3 Re8 10.Nc2 a5 11.Rc1 Bh5 12.Re1 Qb6 13.Rb1 Qa7 14.a3 Rad8 15.Qd2 e5 16.Nh4 Bc5 
17.e3 dxc4 18.bxc4 Bf8 19.d4 Nc5 20.f3 exd4 21.exd4 Nb3 22.Qf4 b5 23.Bf1 Rxe1 24.Rxe1 Bd6 
25.Qe3 a4 26.cxb5 cxb5 27.Bxb5 Qb8 28.Bxa4 Na5 29.Bc1 Nc4 30.Qe2 Rc8 31.Bg5 Nd5 32.Bd7 Rc7 
33.Bf5 Bf8 34.Qe4 Nc3 35.Qd3 g6 36.g4 gxf5 37.gxh5 Nd5 38.Qxf5 Nd6 39.Qxd5 Rxc2 40.Bf4 h6 
41.Nf5  1-0


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paul123
Full Member
***
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 109
Location: USA
Joined: 11/01/03
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #22 - 11/12/05 at 21:13:49
Post Tools
Quote:
After 1.b3 d5 2.f4
2-,Bg4! is strong



I have to agree with you.  However, few would play f4 before setting the bishop on b2. 

Lines stemming from 1. b3 d5 2. Bb2 Bg5 are usually seen only in master class and above chess.   

A few well known examples

an Original idea

1.b3 d5 2.Bb2 Bg4 3.f3!? is interesting  3...Bh5 4.e3 f6 5.c4 c6 6.d4 Nd7 7.Nc3 e6 8.Bd3 f5 9.Nh3 Qh4+ 10.Kf1 Nh6 11.Nf4 Bf7 12.cxd5 = but the position has a lot of play for both sides.



  1.b3 d5 2.Bb2 Bg4 3.g3 e6 4.Bg2 Nf6 5.Nf3 Nbd7 6.0–0 c6 7.c4    and the opening has transposed into the   Capablanca variation of the Reti.   A line that many professionals consider to be safe for black.  However,  I have had great success with the Na3 idea   

1.b3 d5 2.Bb2 Bg4 3.h3  (attacking the bishop)  3… Bh5  (or maybe3… Bf5)  4.g3 e6 5.Bg2 Nf6 6.c4 c6 7.Nf3 Nbd7 8.0–0 Bd6 9.d3 0–0 10.Nbd2 [10.Na3!?  Play could/might go as the following 10...Qe7 11.Nc2 e5 12.a3 Rae8 13.b4 e4 14.dxe4 dxe4 15.Nfd4] 10...Qe7 11.Qc2 Bg6 12.Rac1= again with a position with a lot of play.   



  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
basqueknight
Ex Member


Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #21 - 11/08/05 at 08:24:14
Post Tools
Any sample games on this choice of development?

I was wondering what people generaly thought about the different setups for black. Do any of you have a preferred line of development. Or do you just not see this opening enough to care. 

I am enclined to respond either 1...b6 or just 1...e5 developing classicaly and confronting the larsen player head on. In a clash of schools, Classical vs Hypermodern. 

Other setups i have seen are d5,c5, c6, e5+d6(this is somthing of cowards choice no offense to any one who plays it i just think that if i am facing white and he plays b3 i want to go for a bigger advantage. But on the other hand you might anoy white a bit by playing like this!) Im sure i dont have them all covered leave your thoughts and ill check in later.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Viking
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 673
Location: Norway
Joined: 10/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #20 - 11/07/05 at 08:16:15
Post Tools
After 1.b3 d5 2.f4
2-,Bg4! is strong
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
basqueknight
Ex Member


Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #19 - 11/07/05 at 00:16:10
Post Tools
tracke wrote on 11/06/05 at 22:49:38:
I play 1.b3 now for 4 years as my main white opening on a ~2200 elo level and still enjoy it! Also I have reasonable results (~70% score) and even in my few defeats the opening has never been the problem.
 
1.b3 is not a beginners opening, you should have already developed a strategical understanding before entering this, especially experience with 1.c4 is very useful!   
 
For 1.b3 starters the books by Dunnington and Jacobs/Tait are very good. You can get some ideas and the very little of necessary theory, afterwards search new games in TWIC from Pavel Blatny for example. But don´t forget the main goal: leaving theory on move 3   
 
1...f5 is very good - from the white side of view! After 2.Bb2 already has problems:   
- 2...Nf6 3.Bxf6! is a very good structure for white
- 2...d6 with the idea of 3...Nbd7 and 4...Ngf6 should be answered by transposition to dutch main variations where Nbd7 is unusual (and bad)
- 2...e6 3.e4! fxe4? 4.Qh5+ Ke7 (g6 5.Qe5 +-) must be good for white though there´s no forced win. This is a very good scorer in blitz games! Some russians have tried 3...Qh4!? but 4.exf5 or even the gambit 4.Nf3 Qxe4+ 5.Be2 looks promising
 
1...Nf6 2.Bb2 g6!? 3.Bxf6! exf6 4.c4! is a good kind of the tromp, white can still cover e4 with d2-d3.
 
1...e5 is of course the main variation with most often 2.Bb2 Nc6 to follow. Now 3.c4 or 3.Nf3 are possible but you should play 3.e3 with no fear in view of 3...d5 because that´s exactly the kind of play you´re aiming for - white gets a slight advantage! After 3...Nf6 you can play 4.c4 (look at Fischer-Andersson, Siegen1970, 1:0) or 4.Bb5 with complicated positions after both 4...d6 and 4...Bd6!? . - In case of 1.b3 e5 2.Bb2 d6 try 3.e3 with an early d2-d4, especially if black adds f7-f5: then after e5-e4 you can use f4 as an outpost for your kings knight. The second (and maybe best) possibility is to play 3.g3 and transpose to main lines of the kings indian fianchetto variation (but only  while knowing theory a little bit), it´s very likely that you can get a system with Nb8-d7 on blacks side, while in the KI move order other systems with Nb8-c6 are supposed to be more active (sorry, I can´t discuss every possible move order concerning this).
 
Maybe most annoying is 1...d5. There´s no simple way to play for initiative, but there are many ways to try. Most black players know 1.b3 d5 2.Bb2 c5 3.e3 Nc6 4.Bb5 as good for white so they will delay c7-c5 for a while - in fact not often white gets a nimzo or queensindian with an extra move
After 2.Bb2 c5 3.e3 a6 play 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.d4! and enter a colle/zukertort with an useless a6 for black. This white structure you can also enter in any case though against other black setups it´s harmless (but useful as a backup line).
Playing a Bird with 3./4. f2-f4 always sharpens the game - when black has looked in his queens bishop with e7-e6 it´s quite promising. With blacks bishop on f5 or g4 you can play coffeehouse style with f3/g4/h4 hunting this piece! But be careful, you really take positional risks!
The third idea gainst d5-setups is to fianchetto both bishops and play a Reti. Most often black counters with a London or New York setup: 1.b3 d5 2.Bb2 Nf6 3.g3 Bf5/g4 4.Bg2 c6 5.Nf3 e6 6.0-0 Nbd7 7.c4 Be7 ... As I play this line with both colours I cannot promise an advantage for white.   
 
Other moves as 1...c5 or 1...b6 are possible but rare. Just play chess! By the way: for sure your opponents even know less than you about the opening! In most of my tournament games they needed half an hour to reach move 5   
 
tracke   


So now what about the others. I would think b6 is quite playable.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
basqueknight
Ex Member


Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #18 - 11/06/05 at 22:49:38
Post Tools
I must admit that i am growing more attached to independent systems related to flank openings. So i thought this spike was very original looking and very fun. The positions that arise are very unique and fun to play. Maybe im going insane contemplating somthing other than my tried and true e4. But its always tempting to go off the beaten path
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10780
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #17 - 11/06/05 at 21:24:12
Post Tools
1.f4 d5 2.b3 and 1...Nf6 2.b3 was already recommended by LM Picket in his 1975 booklet on the Bird. Very solid is 1.f4 d5 2.b3 Nf6 3.Bb2 c6 4.Nf3 Bg4. Violating copyrights (who can still find this booklet after all those years?) I type over:

5.e3 e6 6.Be2 Bd6 (Bxf3!?) 7.o-o o-o 8.Ne5 Bxe2 9.Qxe2 Nbd7 10.c4 Qe7
Black now has a solid position and should hold his own: 11.d3 Rad8 12.Nd2 Ne8 13.Ndf3 f6 14.Nxd7 Rxd7 = with approximately even chances.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Klick
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 528
Joined: 01/31/03
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #16 - 11/06/05 at 04:34:18
Post Tools
My computer suggests :  1.b3 Nf6 2.Bb2 g6 3.g4 h6...

And what about 1.Nf3 and then b3?

or

1.f4 and then b3?

The latter looks interesting.


Interesting game and comments Paul. I`ll  have a closer look at it.
  
There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #15 - 11/06/05 at 03:00:23
Post Tools
Paul, 

Thanks for the game, and especially your commentary on it.  I don't remember having seen this variation before.  I did play through a number of Larsen's games more than twenty years ago, so I might have seen something like it. My memory (which is still pretty good) is beginning to show signs of age. Cry
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paul123
Full Member
***
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 109
Location: USA
Joined: 11/01/03
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #14 - 11/05/05 at 23:38:33
Post Tools
Crazy chess is not as popular as it used to be

However, One of the great things about the Larsen is that its scores well against Sicilian Dragon/KID type defenses. (It’s the reasons I think Larsen was playing 1.b3 back in his day, i.e.  the popularity of both openings)   

The Larsen g4 spike!     Black can equalize but like I    because of the long middle games there is a lot of play in the positions reached, black has viable difficulties unique to traditional openings.


  I think over all in game one, black equalized but was walking a tightrope. One too many slips and it was all over.   

Event "CZE-chT1c 9697"] 
[Site "Czechia"] 
[Date "1996.??.??"] 
[Round "0"] 
[White "Choleva,Zdenek"] 
[Black "Zaruba,Antonin"] 
[Result "1-0"] 
[Eco "A01"]

1.b3 Nf6 2.Bb2 g6 3.g4 Bg7 4.g5 Nh5 5.Nc3!?   


An interesting move!  I like this, usually I see d4  here)       


5…d5 6.e3 c5 7.Bg2 e6 8.h4 d4 9.Na4!?   


This is an interesting move too,  at first it didn’t look right.  However, I think it was the start of a positional trap design to strand black’s knight at h5!.     Around move 13 white’s plan  started to become clear to me.   I'm not sure if it is sound but it sure was a great idea!  [9.Nce2!?   This looks possible too.  Being someone who plays the Larsen frequently, this was my knee jerk move. I can see play might go as  9...dxe3 10.Bxg7 Nxg7 11.dxe3 Nd7 12.Nf3 h6 13.Qd3 Qa5++- with white having the advantage] 

9...Na6!? [9...Qc7!? 10.Nh3 0–0!? (10...c4 11.Bxd4 Bxd4 12.exd4 cxb3 13.axb3 “ to me this is unclear”) 11.Qf3 f5 12.0–0–0=] 
10.Qe2 Rb8 11.c4 Bd7 12.Rb1 b5  This pawn push falls in with whites big plan.  Having played positions like this I know it awfully hard for black to centrally attack whites pawn fortress in the center (pawns at d2 e3 and f2 ) so black’s counter play had to come from the queens side, if  from anywhere.  But that's just it with the Larsen, if black doesn't press the attack and digs his heels in and waits he/she gets "usually" a good game.   


13.cxb5 Bxb5 14.Qxb5+!  Here is what I think White’s main opening idea was  14...Rxb5 15.Bc6+ Ke7 16.Bxb5  Now The positional trap is sprung!   Essentially black’s knight on h5 is dead in the water.  Although Black has a material advantage,  white has better piece play.    I'm not so sure it's sound   for it appears to me that if black can free that knight on h5,  white’s cause is hopeless.  But that is the struggle black had to face over the board!   

16...Nb4 17.Bc4 dxe3 18.dxe3! Keeping black's knight at h5 bottled up...nice;) 

18...Nd3+ 19.Ke2 Nxb2 20.Nxb2 Qa5 [20...Bxb2!? 21.Rxb2 Ng7 22.Nf3 Qa5 23.Rd1 Qc7 24.Bb5 (but  24.Rbd2 Rb8 25.a4 a5 26.Bb5+- seems to do some damage) 24...Rd8 25.Rxd8 Qxd8 I think is about equal] 21.a4 Qc3 22.Bd3 Rd8 23.Nf3 Qxb3 24.Nd2 Qa2 25.Nbc4 Qxa4 26.Rb7+ Rd7 27.Rhb1 Bc3 28.Rxd7+ Qxd7 29.Rb8 f5 [29...f6! 30.gxf6+ Nxf6 31.Ne4 Qc7 32.Rh8–+] 30.Nf3 Qc7 31.Ra8 e5 32.Bc2 e4 33.Nfd2 Qb7 34.Re8+ Kxe8 35.Nd6+ Kd7 36.Nxb7 Kc6 37.Nd8+ Kb5 38.Nf7 a5 39.Bb3 Bxd2 40.Kxd2 Kb4 41.Bd5 a4 42.Ne5 a3 43.Kc2 f4 44.Bxe4 fxe3 45.fxe3 Ng3 46.Bd3 Nh1 47.Nc6+ Ka4 48.Kc3 Ng3 49.Ne5 Nh1 50.Bc2+ Kb5 51.Kb3 1–0 

Just my take on the game

I think if one is going to play the Larsen g4 spike, playing g5  and h4 with a d4 and maybe a Nc3 stirs the pot best.   
        
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
basqueknight
Ex Member


Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #13 - 11/04/05 at 17:09:16
Post Tools
So i was taking another look at the larsen and found an interesting line. A lot of people try for a kings indian where b3 with out c4 and d4 will look kind of silly. But there is a little problem with it.

1.b3! Nf6 2.Bb2 g6 3.g4!? 

What does every one think. Do the current Larsen players play in this fashion or do you transpose into an english. I would rather stick to purley larsen paths. My self. Almost reminds me of a basman game!

[Event "CZE-chT1c 9697"]
[Site "Czechia"]
[Date "1996.??.??"]
[Round "0"]
[White "Choleva,Zdenek"]
[Black "Zaruba,Antonin"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Eco "A01"]
1.b3 Nf6 2.Bb2 g6 3.g4 Bg7 4.g5 Nh5 5.Nc3 d5 6.e3 c5 7.Bg2 e6 8.h4 d4 
9.Na4 Na6 10.Qe2 Rb8 11.c4 Bd7 12.Rb1 b5 13.cxb5 Bxb5 14.Qxb5+ Rxb5 15.Bc6+ Ke7 16.Bxb5 Nb4 
17.Bc4 dxe3 18.dxe3 Nd3+ 19.Ke2 Nxb2 20.Nxb2 Qa5 21.a4 Qc3 22.Bd3 Rd8 23.Nf3 Qxb3 24.Nd2 Qa2 
25.Nbc4 Qxa4 26.Rb7+ Rd7 27.Rhb1 Bc3 28.Rxd7+ Qxd7 29.Rb8 f5 30.Nf3 Qc7 31.Ra8 e5 32.Bc2 e4 
33.Nfd2 Qb7 34.Re8+ Kxe8 35.Nd6+ Kd7 36.Nxb7 Kc6 37.Nd8+ Kb5 38.Nf7 a5 39.Bb3 Bxd2 40.Kxd2 Kb4 
41.Bd5 a4 42.Ne5 a3 43.Kc2 f4 44.Bxe4 fxe3 45.fxe3 Ng3 46.Bd3 Nh1 47.Nc6+ Ka4 48.Kc3 Ng3 
49.Ne5 Nh1 50.Bc2+ Kb5 51.Kb3  1-0

[Event "Ruhrgebiet VK3 9798"]
[Site "Ruhrgebiet"]
[Date "1997.??.??"]
[Round "0"]
[White "Theissen,Karsten"]
[Black "Claus,Joachim"]
[Result "1/2"]
[Eco "A01"]
1.b3 Nf6 2.Bb2 g6 3.g4 Bg7 4.g5 Nh5 5.d4 c5 6.e3 Nc6 7.Nf3 d6 8.h4 Bg4 
9.Be2 Qd7 10.Na3 cxd4 11.Nxd4 Bxe2 12.Qxe2 Nxd4 13.exd4 0-0 14.0-0-0 d5 15.Rhe1  1/2

[Event "Rilton Cup 9798"]
[Site "Stockholm"]
[Date "1997.12.??"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Bodin,Stefan"]
[Black "Degerman,Lars"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "A01"]
1.b3 Nf6 2.Bb2 g6 3.g4 Bg7 4.Bg2 d6 5.h3 e5 6.e3 Nc6 7.Ne2 h5 8.g5 Nh7 
9.h4 f6 10.Be4 Ne7 11.gxf6 Nxf6 12.Nbc3 Nxe4 13.Nxe4 Bg4 14.N4g3 0-0 15.d4 Qe8 16.Qd3 Nf5 
17.Nxf5 Rxf5 18.Rh2 exd4 19.Nxd4 c5 20.Qc4+ Rf7 21.Nb5 Bxb2 22.Nxd6 Qe6 23.Nxf7 Qxc4 0-1

In the game that white lost i dont like his interpration so much but it seems like an interesting idea. Sad part thought is that these are the 3 newest games in this line. Does any one know if there was a refutation published or is crazy chess just not as popular as it used to be. 

Any thoughts and expieriences in this line would be nice to hear about. Please drop me a line either here or leave me a message.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
basqueknight
Ex Member


Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #12 - 07/03/05 at 21:11:45
Post Tools
Thank you all very much. And nice to hear from you paul. You clio kids were raised on the fianchetto. Im a Kearsley Alumni but im not haten! 

I am one of two hypermodern players to come out of kearsley. But i was not that way when i played for them i was classical! now my owens and Larsen are taking over the club and my results are improving. 

Nice to hear from a Michigander and thanks to every one for your insite. I hope that this thread continues to grow.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paul123
Full Member
***
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 109
Location: USA
Joined: 11/01/03
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #11 - 07/02/05 at 22:05:37
Post Tools
First of all I didn’t intend to come off harsh, nor did I intend to get personnel.  If I was, I apologize….  However,  I was trying to make a point about being constructive not negative. I guess in a somewhat crude fashion.   

 
4…Bd6 does equalizes   


I’m not sure it’s the main line. One doesn’t have to play Bb5.   I think most people who open with 1. b3 once they see 3…Nf6, are playing 4. c4. (Because of  4. Bb4 Bd6!)   

but I play both

  Back in 1993 I thought Morozevich played a nice game with some cool ideas

Morozevich Alexander - Sveshnikov Evgeny   
RUS It Podolsk, 1993

1.b3 e5 2.Bb2 Nc6 3.e3 Nf6 4.Bb5 Bd6 5.Ne2 0–0 6.0–0 Re8 7.Ng3 e4 8.Be2 Be5 9.Bxe5 Nxe5 10.d4 exd3 11.cxd3 d5 12.d4 ( White gets a  nice QGD Exchange Variation…with a central push or minority attack...Jacobs and Tait  Nimzo-larsen Everyman chess )  game ended in ½–½  I would probably have gone for the minority attack.... but I'm no Morozevich!

I thought this next game has some nice ideas too      

Garcia Padron Jose-  Romero Holmes Alfonso   
 
1.b3 e5 2.Bb2 Nc6 3.e3 Nf6 4.Bb5 Bd6 5.Ne2 a6 6.Bxc6 dxc6 7.d4 e4 8.c4 O-O 9.Nbc3   (White gets a nice reverse French) ended in a win for white 

I also liked 

"Kunin Yt -Arkhangelsky Boris 
1.b3 e5 2.Bb2 Nc6 3.e3 Nf6 4.Bb5 Bd6 5.Ne2 a6 6.Bxc6 dxc6 7.d4 exd4 8.Qxd4 Bg4 9.f3 c5 10.Qd3 Bd7 11.Nd2 O-O 12.O-O-O b5 13.e4 c4 I thought was a cool game.   

In my database I got  White 1-0 22% Draws 49% black 0-1 28%   Not to good varation for white by even my bias standards!!!

Something of note    ** the average move length of a draw is at 39 moves in my data base

However....I  liked whites positions In a lot of games where white losses or draws in the 4....Bd6 var     There was a lot of dynamic room to create ideas, however so does black!  IMO  Most of the variations in the Larsen are like this.     If one notices the Larsen has some really late middle games on average.    .      
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
lost highway
Senior Member
****
Offline


I may be crazy.

Posts: 471
Joined: 06/17/05
Gender: Male
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #10 - 07/02/05 at 18:19:26
Post Tools
Actually, it was November 2003 when I last played this opening, not last year.  I don't keep very good records.  I have no scorebook, just a shoe box full of score sheets in no particular order.  I've lost them before when I've moved a few times.

Here is my last game with 1.b3.  I lost, but I can’t blame the opening.  I now play 1.e4, but when I get to the ending, I’m still pretty weak.   

Lost Highway – 2258 Master, November 2003  1. b3 e5 2. Bb2 Nc6 3. e3 Nf6 4. Nf3 Bd6 5. d4 exd4 6. Nxd4 O-O 7. Be2 Nxd4 8. Bxd4 Bb4+ 9. Bc3 Bxc3+ 10. Nxc3 d5 11. O-O c5 12. Bf3 Be6 13. Qd2 Qd6 14. Rad1 Rad8 15. h3 h6 16. Ne2 Nd7 (I don’t understand this move) 17. Bxd5? (Now it becomes clear that all I wanted was a draw.  I must have been having a bad day.  17.c4! is better of course) Nf6 18. c4 Nxd5 19. cxd5 (I may have seen 19.e4 Bxh3 20.gh3 Qg6+ and got spooked.  I can’t remember.  It does look slightly better for black after 21.Ng3 Nf6! 22.Qxd8 Rxd8 23.Rxd8+ Kh7) Qxd5 20. Qxd5 Bxd5 21. Nc3 Bc6 22. Rxd8 Rxd8 23. Rd1 Rxd1+ 24. Nxd1 a5 25. f3 a4 26. bxa4 Bxa4 27. Nc3 Bc6 28. Kf2? (I’m embarrassed that I missed 28.a4, which looks like the best way to get the draw) f5? (He could have played 28…b5! To stop a4, which looks like a draw.  The time control was at move 30, and we were both short of time, but it’s still pathetic that we both missed this simple idea or somehow discounted it.)  29. Ke2? b5 30. a3 Kf7 31. g3 g5 32. f4 Kf6 33. Kd2 b4 34. axb4 cxb4 35. Na2 b3 36. Nb4 Bg2 37. h4? (This is so stupid.  I need to work on my endings.  37.Kc3 is a probable draw.  Now, I’m just Dead Lost Highway.) gxh4 38. gxh4 Kg6 39. Kc3 Kh5 40. Kxb3 Kxh4 41. Nd3 Kg3 42. Ne1 Be4    0 – 1  Enough.

So, the opening is average I suppose, but in the right hands, maybe it can have a little bite.  Clearly not in my hands though.  1.e4! makes me play much more aggressively.  I have to, just to survive.  With 1.b3, everything felt like slow motion in the opening.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TopNotch
God Member
*****
Offline


I only look 1 move ahead,
but its always the best

Posts: 2211
Joined: 01/04/03
Gender: Male
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #9 - 07/01/05 at 20:34:53
Post Tools
Thanks Paul123 your criticism is duly noted. Grin

Perhaps my 1.b3 e5! = was a little terse, but in my defence I was a bit pressed for time and in any case it is not my intention to post three pages of analysis to justify my opinion every time I express a point of view on the forum.

My postings whether brief or verbose always reflect my honest opinion on matters, and are not meant to be contrary just for the sake of it.

HG and Lost Highway summarised and explained the state of 1.b3 quite excellently, which leaves me with very little to add. In short 1.b3 is a sound playable first move, nothing more and nothing less.

Paul 123 commented that 1.b3 e5! = (You wish it was that easy) ok maybe he is right, but after 2.Bb2 Nc6 3.e3 Nf6 4.Bb5 Bd6!? White has struggled to prove anything more than equality. In fact this seemingly anti positional 4...Bd6!? has now become the main line of 1.b3 and to date Black has scored excellently with it. I used to enagage in the line that alumbrado mentions, and that too is fine for black provided he is aquainted with a few nuances, but 4...Bd6 is so much simpler, and that is my current preference.   

One final point for Paul 123, I am a supporter of the KID, I think its a great fighting defence for ambitious  players seeking the full point as black. I have no idea where you the notion otherwise, Just check the KID threads and you can confirm where my loyalty lies.

Toppylov  Grin
  
The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
alumbrado
God Member
*****
Offline


Esse quam videri bonus
malebo

Posts: 1418
Location: London
Joined: 02/17/03
Gender: Male
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #8 - 07/01/05 at 10:58:32
Post Tools
There are some very interesting and tricky lines after 1...e5 and it is surprising how easy it is for even experienced players to go wrong with Black.

For example in the 'Main Line' (insofar as there is one)after 1.b3 e5 2.Bb2 Nc6 3.e3 d5 4.Bb5 Bd6, White is by no means obliged to play the 'thematic' 5.f4. Although there is nothing wrong with this either, not many Black players at any sort of decent level will play this way unless they know roughly what they are doing there.  I have had a lot of fun (albeit mostly internet blitz) with 5.c4!? as (sort of) advocated in the Jacobs/Tait book on the Nimzo-Larsen.
  
If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
HgMan
God Member
*****
Offline


Demand me nothing: What
you know, you know

Posts: 2330
Location: Up on Cripple Creek
Joined: 11/09/04
Gender: Male
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #7 - 07/01/05 at 09:22:44
Post Tools
Paul123 raises a valid point about melodrama in some of these threads, but I think he completely misses the boat about the tenor of the discussions here.  Just about everything is playable, especially the lower your level.  And we could all sing and dance about how 1 b3 is a guaranteed win for White.  The value of criticism is not to make people not play 1 b3, but rather to enter into it with some better sense of what to expect.  I don't think anyone here said don't play 1 b3; I think the comments were more designed to suggest that White can't hope for an advantage by ceding the center like that (big difference).  Contrary to your opinion, a small advantage for White out of the opening can be very important for the competitive player, and if 1 b3 doesn't yield one, it doesn't mean that the opening is useless, just not as desirable for the stronger player.

Constant criticism--so long as it is presented in a constructive tone--is very valuable and welcome here as it helps us to dig deeper into the guts of any opening.  But there's no need to get personal.  Paul123: if the opening is not soft and has transpositional possibilities, how do you handle it?  Don't complain about the critics: silence them with some objective analysis.

You mention 1 b3 d5 2 Bb2 Bg4, which I don't get, but how does White respond to 1 ... e5?
  
"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
lost highway
Senior Member
****
Offline


I may be crazy.

Posts: 471
Joined: 06/17/05
Gender: Male
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #6 - 07/01/05 at 06:23:34
Post Tools
Paul -

It was just my overall opinion of the opening.  Like I said, I used to play it all the time, and still do occasionally (I played it twice last year against two masters; one draw, one loss).

If I ask the members of this forum what they think about an opening, I find value in all of their opinions.  Some may tell me that the opening is great, and others may tell me that it stinks.  That's why I asked.  Any feedback, positive or negative, is helpful to me in making a decision about what to play.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paul123
Full Member
***
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 109
Location: USA
Joined: 11/01/03
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #5 - 06/30/05 at 22:58:11
Post Tools
I love this…..


Rich stuff here

This is getting way to “A” typical on this site…

Guy comes on and says how much he likes this or that opening or a variation.   Along comes a bunch of  people  and bum rushes the guy… 

“1. b3  e5 =”

Top Notch.... You wish it was that easy.....

Lost Highway……“The opening is too soft.”  Come on????

Soft?    As apposed to what Lost highway?  The Sicilian Nadjorf?

Lost Highway…  If you’re looking to get an opening advantage you “know” that the opening was not for you.    Not to be disrespectful but it sounds like if you couldn’t bambozzal your opponent in the opening, you lost. 

How about you Top Notch?

The Larsen’s strengths lie in its ability to transpose or its ability to create rich middle games were you are on sound footing and your opponent is not.  It’s not one dimensional like the Colle so you can play rote moves and have an easy time….

Both of you could say the same things about every opening out there, anyone can!  In fact I think Top Notch you have?  Wasn’t it the English you were harping on about a month ago?  But if my memory serves me it was a variation that few really play.  So because of that variation we should not play the English?   

Before that, wasn’t it then KID? 

This is what you guys sound like to me 

Guy A say’s he likes the KID 
Don’t play the KID because of the Bayonet attack, its soft!

Guy B says he like the Grunfeld
Russian var!  black is equal 

Guy C says he like the Tarrash
Don’t play the Tarrach   Bg2 !!!!  Game over!!!!!!!

Don’t play the French because of   
Don’t play the Colle…… 
Don’t play the Torre…….

See a trend here?

 
      
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
lost highway
Senior Member
****
Offline


I may be crazy.

Posts: 471
Joined: 06/17/05
Gender: Male
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #4 - 06/30/05 at 19:47:35
Post Tools
I'm an ex-fan.  I used to play 1.b3 for about a year at a time, maybe a total of 150 games with it, and I can tell you that TopNotch is absolutely correct.  Not only is 1.b3 e5 = , but 1...Nf6, 1...e6, 1...c5, 1...d5, and perhaps even 1...f5 are also equal.  I was about 2000 elo when I played it, and I generally beat players 1800 and below, occasionally would win against players in my rating group, but almost never beat anyone over 2100.  The opening is too soft.  It had its day back in the 1960s and early 70s thanks to Larsen and sometimes Fischer, who never lost with it because he was Fischer (take a look at his wins against Tukmakov and Mecking).

The only major opening that doesn't quite work against it is the King's Indian.  So, if you know that's what your opponent likes to play, you'll likely score 60 to 65%.  Otherwise, its 50% unless you play people rated a whole group below your strength.  At least that was my experience with it over 150 games.  And when people know that you play it, your score will be even lower, because a lot of its value is surprise and gaining time on the clock.  That won't happen any more when they know its coming.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TopNotch
God Member
*****
Offline


I only look 1 move ahead,
but its always the best

Posts: 2211
Joined: 01/04/03
Gender: Male
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #3 - 06/30/05 at 17:10:32
Post Tools
1.b3 e5! =

1.b3 Will get you a playable middlegame, but should only offer White an equal game against a competent opponent. 1.b3 is also a reasonable surprise weapon.

In general Flank Openings tend to work best against inexperienced opponents, who are more comfortable parrying direct threats rather than a slow build up where the threats are more obscure.

Top  Grin

  
The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
HgMan
God Member
*****
Offline


Demand me nothing: What
you know, you know

Posts: 2330
Location: Up on Cripple Creek
Joined: 11/09/04
Gender: Male
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #2 - 06/30/05 at 11:17:34
Post Tools
How does Black fare after setting up pawns on d6,e5, & f5?  This looks like a fairly solid set-up that also claims a sizable center...
  
"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paul123
Full Member
***
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 109
Location: USA
Joined: 11/01/03
Re: Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
Reply #1 - 06/30/05 at 10:35:06
Post Tools
Born and raised in Clio and now live down in Berkley just north of Detroit

I’ve been playing the Larsen for some time now.   
There is another guy (Tracke is his name) I think he is a strong player that posted about it.   He gave a good account of the opening and I echo his thoughts.   
I open with b3 not Nf3 because I feel it allows more flexibility  (And it really doesn’t keep e5 from being played anyway…)   
    
From my experience most club players don’t really know how to approach it.   In OVB play, I usually get the Kings Indian Defense played in a remote fashion.  There are a lot of good lines for white in the Larsen for attacking the pawn at e5.  If anything,  go for a king side fianchetto, post a pawn on d4 and exchange it with blacks e5, thus attempting to de-fang Blacks counter punching ways. This usually gives me a nice initiative on the queen’s side.   

Personally, I think the best way to approach the Larsen is by   1) b3 d5 2) Bb2 Bg4!?         

 
It is not a system, so when black has prepared something for me I move into a different line ( Push c4 instead  f4 etc…or not at all i.e. d3 etc…) About the only thing I don’t think is good for white is mimicking hedgehog lines.   

Because of the nature of the Larsen I can transpose into a different opening altogether.  It’s not like black is facing the Colle were he too can punch out remote moves to equalize.   Some of the lines black can equalize (hardly forced lines) but that happens with every opening.  The lines were black equalizes’ seem to be usually down in the middle game and I’m betting my opponent probably isn’t familiar with these positions.    

   I think there are more lines that end with unclear than anything else.  (IMO)  In this age with computer analysis, these unclear positions are probably the main reason why it’s not seen more at the top professional level.  I assume top GM’s with a lot of money on the line; don’t like to play lines that end in unclear. At the men’s level of 2500-2200 and with the professional woman’s level, it is alive and well. 


Just my thoughts
 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
basqueknight
Ex Member


Any Nimzo-Larsen Fans out there
06/16/05 at 12:27:42
Post Tools
I was looking at a book called winning unorthodox chess openings. The larsen is looking quite tempting. sound and Not a lot of weaknesses. Any one out threre play it on a regular basis and if so could you post your ideas and games.

Peace to all

Basqueknight
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 
Topic Tools
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2026. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge