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Willempie
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Re: classic chess profile
Reply #5 - 07/05/05 at 04:16:13
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Throwing in my 2 cents. I kinda agree with all the comments above. Personally I'd describe classical players as players who have a win plan and try to execute it correctly (as Tarrasch often described). This means that in most of their games you can see a logical sequence of events (well logical after analysis with the biggies). Especially with games of Fischer and Botwinnik you can see this. Other types break with either one of them. So Tal often broke with the correctness of moves, while Petrosian didnt play with a plan as such but with some sort of pro-active defensive move-by-move system.
  

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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: classic chess profile
Reply #4 - 07/05/05 at 03:53:00
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@TalJechin, 

I appreciate your desire for a succinct definition of "classical style", but the meaning has morphed over time.  Before WWII, "Classical style" was pretty much as MNb describes it.  However, since the advent of dynamism as its own style, Classicism has become a term which differentiates types of dynamic play.  I return to my original definition:

Classicism in chess, as in art and architecture, is a style that seeks straightforward development, clean lines, and a minimum of chaos.

Your definition suggest that dynamic chess players are not interested in finding the best move.  Computer chess is certainly NOT classical, yet Hydra also seeks the best lines.  Style is not about finding the best lines, it's about determining what criteria to use for "best".  Human styles are mostly aesthetic approaches.
Computer chess is purely utilitarian.

Spassky had in mind  something other than pure "classicism" when he spoke of "a strict classical profile".  Spassky was describing Fischer's style as an answer to the dynamism of the Soviet School (which has its roots in the play of Chigorin). 

Fischer introduced a sort of "neo-classicism" to chess which integrated the findings of the hypermoderns and the concrete analysis of the Soviets into a system which sought "clean" solutions to chess.  One fantastic example of this was in game 7 of his Candidates' match against Petrosian.  Fischer had an edge with a strong Knight dominating a weak Bishop.  He shocked all the analysts by trading it off (22.NxBd7!!) and heading for a simple win.  Black resigned on move 34. Very few players at that time would have even considered such a move. 

By the way, my original definition is only 21 words long, 

[Classicism is] "a style that favors straight-forward development, a preference for "clean lines" over chaotic ones, and activity over defense."

yours is 26.  Succinctness doesn't preclude accuracy.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: classic chess profile
Reply #3 - 07/05/05 at 03:12:36
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It's an interesting question what 'a classical style' really is. I agree with both Smyslov-fan and MNb, but it would be nice to get a more succinct definition so how about the following try? Smiley

A classical style involves a belief in playing 'the best move', for a non-classical, individual moves are less important than the positions they lead to.
  
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MNb
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Re: classic chess profile
Reply #2 - 07/04/05 at 22:03:39
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The usual meaning of the classical versus modern antithesis is indeed occupying the centre with pawns versus controlling it with pieces, especially by fianchetto('s). The main advocate of the classical style was Tarrasch of course. See his comment on Capablanca-Spielmann, New York 1927: 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 e6 3.c4 Nd7
"Einer von den krümmen Zügen, die jetzt so modern sind." I hope my translation is correct: "One of those crooked moves, which are so modern now."
The main advocate of the modern (anti-classical) style was Nimzovitsj of course, though I must mention Réti too. One might say, that Petrosjan applied Nimzovitsj' ideas in extremo.
When we look at the openings of their 1969 match, we see that Spassky played the Tarrasch (!), the QGD and only once the Nimzo-Indian - with which he lost. Also with White Spassky chose openings with smooth development and centre control with pawns.
So we might say, that Spassky beat Petrosjan with classical chess, though not that strict. Game 17 saw Spassky employ a queen's fianchetto at move 9.

I must say, that I find the classical-modern antithesis not very useful. Eg Tal already in 1952 opened 1.c4 followed by a king's fianchetto. Another player with the socalled classical style was Frank Marshall. On Thomas Johansson's website one can find an article on Marshall playing the Queen's Indian as Black.
Finally my hero, the last knight of (the very classical) King's Gambit, already in 1912 (before the revolution of the modernists) defeated Rubinstein in a modern style. Spielmann played some kind of Benoni with his king's knight to e7; subsequently he preferred to play Kf8 in stead of castling. The result was a crushing attack against Rubinstein's poor king. So who's modern and who's classical?
  

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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: classic chess profile
Reply #1 - 07/04/05 at 15:15:31
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Well, it would be nice to hear directly from Spassky himself as to what he meant.  However, I think we can render meaning by his context.  The "classic chess" that Spassky refers to is a style that favors straight-forward development, a preference for "clean lines" over chaotic ones, and activity over defense.  This fits the more general definition of "classical" in art and architecture.   

Some exemplars of this classic style would include:  Capablanca, Fischer, Karpov, and even Tal.  Players who prefer more dynamic and messy positions include: Bronstein, Suba, Geller, Ivanchuk, and (to some extent) kasparov.

Tigran Petrosian's style really is his own school.  He is perhaps the only world champion to have perfected the art of the defensive sacrifice.  He was extremely creative, but he preferred not to lose rather than to win.  His closest proteges are probably Ulf Andersson and *maybe* Petr Leko.

The Romantics were anti-classical, Steinitz tried to apply a scientific method to chess, but his "school" is often considered to be classical because he too favored activity and straightforward development (in his writings, if not his games).

Chigorin is certainly *not* classical in the sense that he he is considered to be the founder of the dynamic school of chess.  Spassky, by the way, is usually praised as having a nearly "universal" style.   

As always, this is just my opinion, and I'd love to hear back from readers about this.
  
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classic chess profile
07/04/05 at 12:57:54
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Was reading a book abt Spassky some time ago by Barden (batsford). In the introduction there was  part in which Spassky discusses his match strategy to beat Petrosian "to play in a strict classical profile". In it he also says that Petrosian is not a master of strict classical profile. Elsewhere (or perhaps in another book) it mentions that Fischer is a player of strict classical profile.
 
What does this "classical profile" mean?? Does it mean that the player plays by applying the ideas of Steinitz, Chigorin and Tarrasch?? Or does it mean that he plays in a way such that his opening system  always involves exerting pressure on the center by pawns rather than pieces?? Or does it mean that his style has a resemblence to the style played by the gambiteers or romantics eg Andersson, Morphy, kieseritzky, blackburne & pillsbury?? Or is it all of the above.
 
thanks
  

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