Poll
Poll Question: Which team will win the English Premiership this season?
bars   pie

Arsenal    
  2 (6.5%)
Chelsea    
  9 (29.0%)
Liverpool    
  2 (6.5%)
Manchester United    
  3 (9.7%)
Bolton Wanderers    
  0 (0.0%)
Everton    
  0 (0.0%)
Wigan    
  0 (0.0%)
Another team    
  2 (6.5%)
What sport is that?    
  7 (22.6%)
Who cares, England lost to Denmark!    
  6 (19.4%)




Total votes: 31
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Who will win the English Premiership this season? (Read 152842 times)
Willempie
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #255 - 11/07/05 at 06:27:26
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There was football this weekend here ???

I must have completely missed that Grin
  

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TalJechin
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #254 - 11/07/05 at 06:05:29
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Well, the english series is more international. Yesterday, the american billionare's team beat the russian billionare's team, one - nil... Grin
  
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MNb
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #253 - 11/07/05 at 05:52:56
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Why not? Nothing in football as important as the controverse Ajax - Rest of the Netherlands!
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #252 - 11/07/05 at 05:00:36
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I really dont feel like discussing the Eredivisie! Cry Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed
  

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TalJechin
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #251 - 11/07/05 at 04:56:40
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Taljechin, to comfort you: you understand about as much of spoken Dutch as I do of spoken Swedish!   Maybe it is because my ancestors kicked yours out of my beloved country some 1200 years ago?


Were the vikings all the way down to Suriname??? Wow, that's impressive! Grin

I don't think your guys kicked our guys out though - they probably didn't like the weather and stopped going there... Grin

On the language similarities I suppose there are many small reasons, like both being germanic languages and then we've exchanged population a bit too, in the 15-1600 there were many swedes & norwegians working in Holland and in the 1600s during the many wars we imported a lot of Vallonian cannon makers. 

Btw, it seems we still import dutch farmers. In the news a couiple of months ago there was a story about dutchies selling their homes and moving to Värmland (a 'landscape' in mid Sweden by the Norwegian border) we're they've bought farms. So far, there's already about 500 dutch farmers in Värmland alone. I suppose it must be nice to move from one of the most crowded countries in Europe to one of the least crowded in the world.

PS

I still thinks it's a bit unlogical (or 'illogical' before some knowitall corrects me Wink ) not to pronunce a letter as it's written. G can be sh/j/g in swedish so you're not alone. 

The russian kh is a spanish j so why not add a dutch g ?!

But if this sound really is so important, why hasn't it gotten a letter of its own???
  
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Willempie
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #250 - 11/07/05 at 04:34:30
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Mnb, one minor correction. The ch is always pronounced as g with 2 exceptions. When it is a french loanword (which are almost always pronounced as in french), like in your chauffeur or champagne or when it is at the end of a word and then is pronounced as a long s, eg optisch and Portisch. There is btw a difference in pronunciation of v and f, but you have to be a Flemming to notice. My own accent is so screwed up already, by being born in an Amsterdam family and having lived in Utrecht that all nuances in pronunciation have disappeared. I swallow t's, my z is an s etc. Grin

Back to football. I see VdS saved the win against the evil blue team and that De Zeeuw (who here is heavily underestimated) is keeping Wigan alive and kicking.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #249 - 11/06/05 at 22:17:30
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"But a further similarity may be the unlogical pronunciation of some letters. In dutch g=ch and v=f"

I do not quite understand, why this is unlogical. On the g-ch matter:
As far as I know, Dutch is the only European language with the hard g, pronounced as if you scrape your throat. The ch in most European languages is pronounced as sj or tsj. Maybe Smyslov_Fan can tell me, if Khalifman is pronounced the same way; I am not sure.
The confusing part is the ch. In Dutch the prononciation of foreign words like chauffeur remains the same as in the original language. Original Dutch spelling would be sjofeur. When the ch follows the s though, it is like the hard g again: school, Scheveningen. An exception is the word chemie, it is one of the very few words with the ch at the beginning still pronounced with the hard g.
Beneath the three rivers and in Belgium hardly no one uses the hard g. I do not know any equivalent of the way Southern Dutchmen and Belgian pronounce the g.
All original Dutch words containing the g are pronounced this way. Call it uncommon, but it is not unlogical.

Theoretically there is a difference between the v and the f. The v is soft - like the English word vacant - while the f is hard - like the English word fly. Laziness has faded away the difference.

The way we use the letter c is very unlogical though: sometimes a s, sometimes a k. What's more: there is no difference between ou and au - both are pronounced like the English cow (kau or kou, it is exactly the same).

Taljechin, to comfort you: you understand about as much of spoken Dutch as I do of spoken Swedish!  Cheesy Maybe it is because my ancestors kicked yours out of my beloved country some 1200 years ago? Wink
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #248 - 11/06/05 at 10:12:13
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yeah, yet another philological and historical digression....


Taljechin, 

Your pronounciation of certain letters is reflected in the Scandinavian (Viking) influence on Russia.  As you may know, the Varangians traded and civilized large portions of Russia.  In fact, the very name is said to have come from Riurik, a Varangian (Viking) settler.

I know, it seems strange to think of the Vikings as traders and settlers, but that is where they left their greatest mark on Europe.  

As an historian, one of my all time favorite stories is the true story of Harald Hadradi.  (All the names and places are in English, so forgive me in advance if you know him aand others by other names.)

Harald was a nobleman who thought he deserved to rule what is now known as Norway.  He was rebuffed and sent into exile.  He travelled south through Russia, and soon ended up in the Varangian Guard of the Byzantine Empire.   This was the elite of the elite, and protected the Eastern Roman Empire (BYzantium) for centuries.  He rose to become the leader of the the Varangian Guard and gained the trust of the Emperor.  

He used that trust to kidnap the Emperor's neice.  He demanded and received a "king's ransom" under condition that he leave Byzantium and never return.  

During his own lifetime, ballads were composed of his bravery and effrontry.  He returned to Norway and bought the country with his ransom money!
 

As if that wasn't enough, he wanted more glory.  He heard that a distant relative, Edward, king of the Angles, had died leaving no heir.  Another distant relative, who was living in this kingdom, Harold Haroldson, took the throne.  

A third distant relative, who had been born in a Viking area of France known for its Norsemen (Normandy) also had an eye on this throne.  Nobody was really worried about the Norman since he wasn't even nobility, being a bastard of a nobleman.


Harald Hadradri invaded the island kingdom in the fall of 1066, after the crops had been collected and landed in the northern reaches of the country, known as the Danelaw.  Harold Haroldson, now King Harold I, raised an army and marched north.  After a forced march, Harold won a tremendous surprise victory at the Battle of Stamford Bridge, killing the legendary Hadradi and sending Hadradi to Oden's Hall.   Harold, being a Christian, wasn't too concerned with that though.

He received news that the bastard, now a Duke of Normandy, was attacking his southern coast.  In a feat of military brilliance that has been memorialized in word and pictures, Harold raced down to protect his capital and meet his cousin, William the Bastard and defend his throne again.  

Harold was unable to reach the beaches in time to drive off the invaders, but set up a defensive front in the hills around a small town called Hastings.  Harold and his weary men nearly staved off this foreign invasion, and William was even knocked off his horse and thought to be dead.  William rose again, got another horse, and one of his archers' arrows pierced Harold through the eye, killing him instantly.

Thus, the great Battle of Hastings was decided, and the Angles learned to speak French.  Well, some of them, anyway.




This is a great story, and it's made even better by being the truth!

Aint history amazing!!

It gets even better though:  These Vikings, who had really cool long boats that could weather the Atlantic ocean or travel the Dnepr and Volga Rivers, were also handy as roofs of their churches.  They would turn the boat upside down, and support it with arches that flew perpendicularly to the church.  These "flying" buttresses and light roofs helped to create a style that was derisively known as the "Gothic" style, and Gothic cathedrals popped up in western Europe, where Viking influence took hold!

Wow.  Vikings are cool.

Ok, back to the football!
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #247 - 11/06/05 at 00:57:20
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@Taljechin. Indeed very similar, except for the weird letters you have like ä, å and ö. I missed the ø though Grin


Well, ø is the danish version of ö. Strangely, swedish & dutch are close in writing but when hearing dutch I don't understand it more than icelandic i.e. not at all!   

But a further similarity may be the unlogical pronunciation of some letters. In dutch g=ch and v=f while we have less general rules, e.g: Ljungberg ['ju:ngberj] Källström [chaelstreum] g is g unless it ends a word or is followed by certain vowels, for example 'ge' then it's a 'j' and k is also either k or ch/sh depending on the following vowel...

Btw, I got to hand it to S_F, including Wigan was impressive (though Chelsea was probably the only team needed really...), I hadn't heard about them before this season. However, their 2nd place might not be totally inexplicable as I've recently learned they have a swedish forward... Grin
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #246 - 11/06/05 at 00:07:01
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I once heard a Scottish commentator say something very similar, "The coach is clueless, the field intoxicated, and the players are lost."

I don't know if he was paraphrasing the Dutch saying or quoting something else, or it was mere coincidence.  I would have guessed that the closest translation from the Dutch would be "...the players are ridiculous."

Back to football:  Wow, Wigan seems almost like they're for real!  The main problem I see for them is that they have a good starting eleven, but they won't have the bench to keep up the showing for the entire season.

The really good teams will still be there at the end, and I predict it will be Chelsea (of course), Arsenal, Liverpool (of course), and maybe Tottenham or Newcastle.  I don't think Man U has quite enough talent any more.  (And I still really despise the Portuguese player Ronaldo and his theatrical dives.  The refs should be showing him the card more than Rooney!)
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #245 - 11/05/05 at 19:46:50
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"They may win a knock-out game or two"

This is only 50% correct. PSV may, Ajax won't. The finals will be Chelsea-Barcelona or something like that. Anyhow it will be the triumph of much money. That is the difference with chess: in the latter Geist kann triumphieren über Stof.

A slight modification on Willempie's statement: Ajax will indeed win the poodle price this season.
For Ajax it is like 1672: de coach is radeloos, het bestuur is redeloos en het elftal is reddeloos.
The coach is desperate, the board is irrational, the team irretrievable. (In Dutch it sounds better).

We'll see, I have seen this before with Ajax. The year we won the championship and the CL didnt start that well either.
I disagree about the money. In a normal competition money will tell due to the statistics. In the "play-offs" the effect is much less, due to coincedence being an important factor. Last year neither Chel$ki or Real we-buy-every-star-we-can Madrid reached the final. I doubt they will this year. My personal feeling is it will be either of the Milans vs Lyons. I am just thinking (more hoping) there will be a dutch team in the final. They're certainly not favourites, but either team could do it.

@Taljechin. Indeed very similar, except for the weird letters you have like ä, å and ö. I missed the ø though Grin
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #244 - 11/05/05 at 12:41:55
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For Ajax it is like 1672: de coach is radeloos, het bestuur is redeloos en het elftal is reddeloos.
The coach is desperate, the board is irrational, the team irretrievable. (In Dutch it sounds better).


Cheesy 

A nice example of the closeness of Swedish & Dutch. In swedish it'd be:

'Coachen är rådlös, styrelsen redlös och hela lagelvan räddningslös'

(though swe to eng it's more like: 'the coach is clueless, the board intoxicated and the players irretreviably lost' but that might be what you wanted to say too...)
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #243 - 11/05/05 at 12:01:38
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EPL fans watch out!

Liverpool has just won two in a row, beating Aston Villa away!  Go Reds!
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #242 - 11/05/05 at 08:49:05
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"They may win a knock-out game or two"

This is only 50% correct. PSV may, Ajax won't. The finals will be Chelsea-Barcelona or something like that. Anyhow it will be the triumph of much money. That is the difference with chess: in the latter Geist kann triumphieren über Stof.

A slight modification on Willempie's statement: Ajax will indeed win the poodle price this season.
For Ajax it is like 1672: de coach is radeloos, het bestuur is redeloos en het elftal is reddeloos.
The coach is desperate, the board is irrational, the team irretrievable. (In Dutch it sounds better).
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #241 - 11/04/05 at 23:50:58
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The CL big picture hasn't changed much since last year.  In order to win, you will have to go through some great Spanish teams, English, teams, or a German/Italian team.  The Dutch entries are entertaining, but when PSV couldn't beat AC Milan in the semis last year, I was slightly disappointed.  Ok, only slightly, since my Kop made it to the final and weren't going to be denied! Cheesy

So, keep chatting all you like about Ajax and PSV.  They may win a knock-out game or two between them, but watch out for the Limeys and the Spanish teams!
  
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