Poll
Poll Question: Which team will win the English Premiership this season?
bars   pie

Arsenal    
  2 (6.5%)
Chelsea    
  9 (29.0%)
Liverpool    
  2 (6.5%)
Manchester United    
  3 (9.7%)
Bolton Wanderers    
  0 (0.0%)
Everton    
  0 (0.0%)
Wigan    
  0 (0.0%)
Another team    
  2 (6.5%)
What sport is that?    
  7 (22.6%)
Who cares, England lost to Denmark!    
  6 (19.4%)




Total votes: 31
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Who will win the English Premiership this season? (Read 152808 times)
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #360 - 05/26/06 at 06:46:34
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Most "Anglo-Saxons" are firmly of the view that the Premiership isn't very interesting any more.  The Championship is where the action is...
  

If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #359 - 05/26/06 at 02:53:31
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"I'd go for the 1st option"
Of course! Let the Anglo-Saxons prove, that their competition is more interesting than the Eredivisie.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #358 - 05/25/06 at 16:34:25
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Quote:
As the subject for this thread is "Who will win the English Premiership this season?" and nobody has even mentioned who actually did win(!)

It was nearly a foregone conclusion that chelsea would win it somewhere mid-season, so EPL became quite a bore!

Quote:
this thread is a good example of how the threads here live their own life....   Roll Eyes

It managed to survive to the end of the EPL despite the 'boredom' cos the gate crashing of the more fun & more impt (to some), eredivisie took over.  Wink

Look-out for something similar happening for next season's thread!   Wink The question now wld be whether to continue gate crashing & 'annoy' EPL fans or to form a seperate thread! I'd go for the 1st option Grin
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #357 - 05/25/06 at 08:10:22
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As the subject for this thread is "Who will win the English Premiership this season?" and nobody has even mentioned who actually did win(!) 
-this thread is a good example of how the threads here live their own life....   Roll Eyes

  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #356 - 05/25/06 at 05:48:45
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GM Kosten, 

I will be sad to see it go, but am flattered that it was so popular.  With the FIFA World Cup thread going strong, I think few will miss this one.  Expect to see a 2006-2007 version soon though!  Smiley
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #355 - 05/22/06 at 10:58:54
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Now the season has finished I would like to close this thread (which is positively enormous), does anyone mind?
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #354 - 05/15/06 at 11:00:54
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MNb wrote on 05/13/06 at 21:08:03:

@Willempie
Of course the loyalty problem is an exaggeration. I keep on hoping, that Ajax will lose against any opponent and especially against FC Twente. For some reason I like Ten Cate; I don't feel anything special for others.

I can put my mind at rest now knowing that some things always remain constant in this universe. Grin

I didnt even know he had Surinam roots. Always assumed he was a "native". 

Btw I think the problem for Seedorf is that he wants to play too good. Eg he picks up the ball for the penalty (and to miss of course), while none of the others did. He got all the flack for missing, which imo should have gone to De Boer. Plus he has something in his composure which easily ticks of people.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #353 - 05/14/06 at 14:42:23
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Congratulations to both Liverpool & Smyslov-fan. Tho i more or less expected Pool to win, I certainly didnt expect them to mk it such a difficult job for themselves. With a full strength Pool, its either The Hammers really played beyond themselves or Pool simply underperformed (as the case every now & then). But I would dare say now that if not for the inspirational Stevie G, its kaput for the Reds.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #352 - 05/13/06 at 21:08:03
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Congratulations, Smyslov_Fan. For you end good, all good.

@Willempie
Of course the loyalty problem is an exaggeration. I keep on hoping, that Ajax will lose against any opponent and especially against FC Twente. For some reason I like Ten Cate; I don't feel anything special for others.
I agree with you on the Seedorf subject. Haven't I written before, that he is a very sympathetic chap? He has done quite an investment in Surinamese football. It is clear, that he has been successfull in some very strong teams. But it also true, that he almost never played up to his potential in Oranje; I do not understand why. So I can understand Van Basten's decision not to select him.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #351 - 05/13/06 at 19:25:41
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Liverpool wins the FA Cup!  You'll Never Walk Alone.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #350 - 05/13/06 at 18:38:47
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MNb wrote on 05/12/06 at 21:18:32:
All Dutch know, that big parts of Amsterdam are in fact a colony of Suriname.  Wink I have read an interview of Ten Cate, in which he made clear, that he felt Surinamese as a boy and not Amsterdam-like.
Maybe the financial situation of Ajax is OK. But I am not impressed by the policy of the Ajax board the last couple of years. In fact I doubt, if it was wise too fire Blind at this moment. As Ajax seems to have improved the last couple of weeks, it might be wise to see how the team would develop under Blind in the new competition.
I have a loyalty problem now. I find Ten Cate very sympathetic. We all know what I think of Ajax ....  Undecided

Yep more Surinams live in Amsterdam than in Paramaribo and maybe even Surinam itself Smiley
Personally I think the board had made the error of letting the coach decide on transfers. Now the technical staff is more and more taking over this role, without letting the coach interfere too much. Eg Huntelaar wasnt Blind's idea or call.

Btw why didnt you have a loyalty problem before? We always had loads of Surinam players: Rijkaard, Menzo, Seedorf (imo unrightfully been scoffed at here, he is one of the best players we ever had in Holland), Kluivert and most recently Babel to name a few which pop to my mind atm.

PS real pity for the hammers, they totally deserved to win the cup. Seems like certain English teams are getting more German, by always coming back.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #349 - 05/12/06 at 21:18:32
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All Dutch know, that big parts of Amsterdam are in fact a colony of Suriname.  Wink I have read an interview of Ten Cate, in which he made clear, that he felt Surinamese as a boy and not Amsterdam-like.
Maybe the financial situation of Ajax is OK. But I am not impressed by the policy of the Ajax board the last couple of years. In fact I doubt, if it was wise too fire Blind at this moment. As Ajax seems to have improved the last couple of weeks, it might be wise to see how the team would develop under Blind in the new competition.
I have a loyalty problem now. I find Ten Cate very sympathetic. We all know what I think of Ajax ....  Undecided
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #348 - 05/12/06 at 07:09:57
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MNb wrote on 05/12/06 at 02:30:07:
Imo Ajax these years is such a mess, that even Ten Cate won't be able to clean it. Btw in the first place he is Surinamer, not Amsterdammer.
Cruijff and Beenhakker are much too sensible to take the job.

Nonono, you're amsterdammer first and then something else and anyway afaik he is born in amsterdam so your claim is slightly unfactual Wink
And the situation is not that bad anyway. Finance is in order and they finally seem to have some consistent players policies. They're not buying weird forwards anymore.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #347 - 05/12/06 at 02:30:07
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Imo Ajax these years is such a mess, that even Ten Cate won't be able to clean it. Btw in the first place he is Surinamer, not Amsterdammer.
Cruijff and Beenhakker are much too sensible to take the job.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #346 - 05/11/06 at 08:57:06
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woofwoof wrote on 05/10/06 at 16:08:05:
True! True! Maybe now they can try to lure back Cruyff or Beenhaker??

Everybody thinks they signed Ten Cate (assistent at Barcelona), though no announcement has been made. I think Ajax will only make an announcement after the CL final so as not to give Barca any trouble in the preparation.

Personally I think he would be a good choice. He is an Amsterdammer, has proven himself in the Dutch league and now at Barcelona and I like his no-nonsense attitude towards the press.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #345 - 05/11/06 at 01:47:41
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Oh it was Sevilla instead of Villareal! Embarrassed Boro got thrashed 4-0 Cry Oh well..... I suppose boro's luck finally ran out in Eindhoven.

Hmmm.... p'haps not luck...... Clearly Sevilla played miles better. All credit to a small footballing town nonetheless.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #344 - 05/10/06 at 16:08:05
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True! True! Maybe now they can try to lure back Cruyff or Beenhaker??

For now anyway, I'm more excited abt Boro-Viillareal! Go Boro go!
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #343 - 05/10/06 at 14:52:03
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Anyway it is official now Blind is sacked. I personally like him, but I think this is the right decision. Some last-minute rescues cant take away that the team has played appallingly bad considering the players in the field.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #342 - 05/08/06 at 07:38:20
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No no, the best news is that we now have a striker who is (even) better than Van Nistelrooij. The 2 goals he made yesterday would have made Van Basten proud, especially the 2nd one.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #341 - 05/08/06 at 02:18:55
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The best news is still: Ooijer is back. See also FIFA thread.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #340 - 05/08/06 at 02:02:49
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Ahhhhh! The news made my day!! Cheesy  Huntelaar to play upfront for Oranje in WC??
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #339 - 05/07/06 at 18:06:44
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We won the cup 2-1 Cool Cool Cool
2 goals of Huntelaar (do I hear dutch national team Grin) did it. One major complaint though, the refereeing was ridiculous at times (both teams suffered from this). Gave 2 red cards which werent warranted, gives a yellow for protesting, misses a kick in the face and some other stuff I forgot.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #338 - 05/06/06 at 15:08:39
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Indeed a pity, especially since in the 1st game Heerenveen didnt seem to try to cross the middle line
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #337 - 05/05/06 at 20:52:15
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Leaves me absolutely cold. I like it though, when FC Twente defeats Ajax on its 100th anniversary.
PS Sadness, sadness. Heerenveen has eliminated my favourites convincingly.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #336 - 05/05/06 at 10:32:13
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Now come on, admit it, you like it when Ajax wins 0-5 in de Kuip vs f*noord
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #335 - 05/05/06 at 03:19:41
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"Come on Mnb even you must admit that Ajax is usually very decent in Europe."
Sure. That only adds to my dislike. But I remain an optimist; hence my profecy. And sometimes my profecies come true.  Wink
My dislike for Ajax disappears immediately, like snow in the sun, when its players are selected for the Orange team though.  Tongue
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #334 - 05/04/06 at 08:23:23
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Come on Mnb even you must admit that Ajax is usually very decent in Europe. Whether UEFA or CL we almost always manage to get through past the winter.

Coming Sunday the cup final vs the lightbulbs in Rotterdam, that may be fun Smiley
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #333 - 05/04/06 at 03:13:57
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I really cannot imagine why. No team deserves less to qualify for the Champions League than Ajax. I mean, if Ajax has so many problems with a modest team like FC Groningen, what will happen next season?
Don't worry. Ajax will be eliminated by some 3rd rate Spanish, English or Italian team in the preliminaries and maybe survive first round in the UEFA Cup next season.  Smiley
For your info, Woofwoof: dislike of Ajax is incurable. About one third of the population in The Netherlands suffers from it. Also one third is Ajax fanatic; the rest does not like football in general. This makes sure, that Eredivisie is fun every year, even if the level is clearly lower than in some other countries with too much money.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #332 - 05/04/06 at 02:38:55
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A 2-1 defeat at Groningen. Tongue But no matter, its 3-2 on aggregate to Ajax. Sneijder's strike in the 87th minute ensured no extra time. What a relief! We will have CL action next year (even if its a 3rd qualifying round).

Maybe somebody here would learn to have more respect for Ajax in future??  Wink
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #331 - 04/29/06 at 13:36:50
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Yeah Utrecht just collapsed at the end of the season, 5 losses in a row. On the bright side it will save me on taxes due to police support for the UEFA games
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #330 - 04/29/06 at 04:57:08
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My favourites just beat your 2nd favourites in the qualification race for UEFA.
They have made my day.  Kiss
The top team beaten in the 70's was Juventus indeed.
Of course the unforgettable Epi Drost was the first "inschuivende laatste man" ever, a kind of a superior version of Ronald Koeman. You can notice, where Ajax borrows its good ideas. Aah, nostalgy ...
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #329 - 04/28/06 at 09:10:03
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Oh Mnb I am wondering which team it is you support. It isnt one of the "big" three and your reference to the 70s makes me think it may be Twente. Iirc they did reach the UEFA finals after beating a top team (Juventus or Madrid would have to look that up somewhere).
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #328 - 04/28/06 at 09:06:52
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woofwoof wrote on 04/27/06 at 15:12:25:

p/s Hey Willempie, would the elimination of Groningen mean another crate of beer for you?  Grin

Yeps as the idiot (one of the silly rotterdam fans) wanted double or nothing for the CL spot.
It will be a fun match wednesday. Groningen will throw anything they can at us and they have the home advantage (and they have massive results there). On the other hand some of the attacks of Ajax lately reminded me of how they played in the past. So methinks the neutral watcher is in for a treat, while for the others it may well become a nailbiter.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #327 - 04/28/06 at 02:55:55
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No Willempie, I never ever regret making fun of Ajax. It keeps me busy for more than 25 years already.  Cheesy
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #326 - 04/27/06 at 15:12:25
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Indeedy! Result really made my day this morning. So, it looks at least on paper that the CL place is very much in hand. Lets hope the defense holds up during the 2nd leg.

Quite really.....the final score should be 4-0 at least. That would really have secured the CL spot. 

p/s Hey Willempie, would the elimination of Groningen mean another crate of beer for you?  Grin
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #325 - 04/27/06 at 12:54:00
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Totally deserved win: 2-0 Smiley
Someone is going to regret having poked fun at Ajax Grin
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #324 - 04/24/06 at 16:43:46
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A win against Groningen would be very very nice. To book a place in nxt yrs CL would be a nice consolation to an otherwise disappointing & difficult season. Lets hope things turn out much much better next year.....like winning the Eredivisie for starters!! Cheesy

Newcastle certainly did well to reach the upper half of the premiership so far after a dismal start. As i said before....they would do much much better w/o Souness!! Angry

Abt Spurs.... Its really nice to see them doing well. A 4th place finish on the cards is really good & refreshing after so many yrs of misery. Let's see if Jol can be as successful as Nicholson or Burkinshaw.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #323 - 04/24/06 at 12:09:25
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Well the way this season is going I think getting to the CL will still be tough. Groningen certainly isnt a cakewalk.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #322 - 04/24/06 at 11:38:04
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Yeah, lucky Ajax, reaching undeserved goals as always.  Angry
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #321 - 04/23/06 at 18:16:59
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Further dutch hijacking follows Grin
It will be Groningen vs Ajax for the CL spot. A nice walkover with 2-4 by Ajax or to put it in plain dutch: voetballes Cool

Now back to the premiership. Hopefully Tottenham can keep 4th, certainly after Whiner's comments.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #320 - 04/23/06 at 14:09:30
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TalJechin wrote on 04/23/06 at 12:54:27:
GMTonyKosten wrote on 04/23/06 at 01:30:09:
Maybe it is time to split this thread! Anyway, I am only saying that because I am a Man City fan, and the top of the Premiership doesn't interest us too much!  Cry
Maybe we should play in Holland instead, we might be able to win a few games ... !  Grin



Yes, isn't it time for a "Who will win the World Cup in Germany"-thread? Even if  the winner may be even more predictable than Chelsea in this thread. As the home team always does well and when the home team is Germany...  Roll Eyes




Well I do recall Smyslov-fan starting a thread on the world cup. We could start /continue the world cup discussions,debates, mocks & insults there. I think its been relegated to page 2 of this section.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #319 - 04/23/06 at 12:54:27
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 04/23/06 at 01:30:09:
Maybe it is time to split this thread! Anyway, I am only saying that because I am a Man City fan, and the top of the Premiership doesn't interest us too much!  Cry
Maybe we should play in Holland instead, we might be able to win a few games ... !  Grin



Yes, isn't it time for a "Who will win the World Cup in Germany"-thread? Even if  the winner may be even more predictable than Chelsea in this thread. As the home team always does well and when the home team is Germany...  Roll Eyes

  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #318 - 04/23/06 at 04:10:12
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Hello all

Coming from the greatest rugby country in the world  Tongue, we don’t hear much about soccer. 

So can some one tell me how my team went ‘West Ham’?

Thanks.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #317 - 04/23/06 at 01:30:09
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Maybe it is time to split this thread! Anyway, I am only saying that because I am a Man City fan, and the top of the Premiership doesn't interest us too much!  Cry
Maybe we should play in Holland instead, we might be able to win a few games ... !  Grin
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #316 - 04/22/06 at 21:43:58
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Dutch hijacking of this thread is symbolic, for what will happen, when Oranje meets England in Germany.
Only a couple of weeks, and you will learn, how much Willempie, I and others agree on football.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #315 - 04/22/06 at 20:09:13
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Well, after this forum was hijacked for so long by Dutch fans... 


(By the way, why didn't you create your own "who will win the Dutch League" post?  Was it perhaps because only three people would have made any comments? Embarrassed )

Liverpool finally made good on one thing:  We beat Chelsea in the FA Semis 

You'll Never Walk Alone!
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #314 - 04/21/06 at 07:17:30
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Yep revenge is mine. Having had to suffer all the flak from Utrecht and Feyenoord supporters this season, I am finally going to collect on my bets with them. After sunday I hope to collect three crates of beer, 2 for betting that Ajax will end higher than F***noord and one for betting we would end up higher than Utrecht (that was a bet of 2 months ago) Grin
BtW AZ was also quite an upset. Will we now get Groningen in the CL Shocked
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #313 - 04/21/06 at 02:59:28
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In Dutch competition I only have one emotion: nostalgy to the 70's, when my favorites were (almost) a European topteam.
But you must be a happy man, Ajax having defeated Feijenoord for the first time this season.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #312 - 04/16/06 at 18:48:33
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MNb wrote on 04/03/06 at 02:48:36:
Willempie, how does it feel, to depend on Feyenoord's good will, when it comes to reaching a place in the Champions league?  Grin

So Mnb how does it feel after all your puns to see Ajax in the play-offs? Wink

Stuntelaar is top scorer btw with 33 goals Cool
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #311 - 04/10/06 at 07:23:13
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Mnb will be delighted te learn that Heracles now officially have avoided relegation. Cool
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #310 - 04/03/06 at 07:48:46
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If we win all we qualify, but it will be tough. Though for that we need a decent ref. Not the one we had yesterday. Angry
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #309 - 04/03/06 at 02:48:36
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http://www.trouw.nl/deverdieping/dossiers/article269202.ece/Verkamman+%2F+Er+is+...

Willempie, how does it feel, to depend on Feyenoord's good will, when it comes to reaching a place in the Champions league?  Grin
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #308 - 03/30/06 at 07:59:33
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But weren't the 70s sweet for Liverpool fans?  The '77 team that beat Borussia Moenchengladbach for the European Cup has to be my favourite Liverpool side of all time, and one of the best British teams ever.  Ah, nostalgia.....
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #307 - 03/28/06 at 13:27:28
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By the way, according to the computer I voted for Liverpool to win the League Championship on December 31st, 1969.  For the record:  I knew there was such a team as Liverpool in 1969 but was unaware of the football league.  That's possible because I was born in 1963 to a Liverpudlian mum, but didn't start living in England until August, 1970.   

Having said all that, I would have chosen Liverpool to win the league in the 1969-1970 season.  And I would have been wrong then, too. Lips Sealed
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #306 - 03/28/06 at 13:16:46
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England was once the perennial favorite to win the sportsmanship award at the World Cup.  While the English still haven't fallen to the level of some leagues, I doubt they will win such an award any time soon.  I wonder if that Roma player (whom I didn't see) has any chance at all of playing that Summer league tournament in Germany?
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #305 - 03/28/06 at 11:04:54
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Anyone seen that Roma chappy, who went to the referee to say his goal should be disallowed for hands? Quite a contrast with the Chelsea theatricals.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #304 - 03/27/06 at 08:22:04
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MNb wrote on 03/27/06 at 02:52:33:

Whatever. We will qualify anyway Grin
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #303 - 03/27/06 at 03:50:30
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The second Merseyside Derby was won by... the referee.  My team, Liverpool, collected the three points but the ref stole the match from both sides.  What a disappointing game.  I wonder what it will take for the FA to put him into the second division where he belongs.  He's been the face of too many soccer games this season.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #302 - 03/27/06 at 02:52:33
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The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #301 - 03/08/06 at 03:16:41
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Is, besides among Dutch, this quote known?

After a question of a reporter:
"Am I that smart, or are you so dumb?"
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #300 - 03/07/06 at 13:06:44
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Well the main thing is that his rants arent funny. Van Gaal for example would often scoff at others, but at least he was funny, though usually he targetted journalists.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #299 - 03/07/06 at 12:33:12
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Oh, we can be sure it will be anybody's fault but his own or the team's.  It is strange, when it became clear that Chelsea were going to become top dogs in England under Mourinho, most football fans welcomed him as a breath of fresh air after years of Ferguson and Wenger.  Already after two years his outbursts are treated with the same weary roll of the eyes.
  

If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #298 - 03/07/06 at 12:05:33
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Well the premiership is hardly interesting atm, much unlike the dutch competition, due to the playoffs at the end.

Still I am curious who Mourinho will accuse this time when they lose to Barcelona.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #297 - 03/07/06 at 11:55:41
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alumbrado wrote on 03/07/06 at 10:07:46:
It seems that the destination of the Dutch championship is almost as much of a foregone conclusion as the English Premiership ... which, lest we forget (ahem!) is supposed to be the subject of this particular thread ... Roll Eyes


Ahem!
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #296 - 03/07/06 at 10:23:48
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MNb wrote on 03/07/06 at 03:03:30:
Already in ancient time the Greek hero was too strong for that city. BTW, if I remember my Greek mythology well, that Greek hero was known for his muscles - not for his brains. Seems appropriate.
Let us be fair. Heracles is a much harder nut to crack than Sparta these days. And PSV still will become national champ. How many points does Ajax lay behind again?

Heracles unfortunately lost some steam. I lost count of how many points we're behind, but we're still there for CL qualufication.

PS hopefully Ajax and PSV manage somehow to get through. PSV has a tough job ahead in Lyon, while Ajax has to rectify their defensive blunders in Inter (2-2 after a 2-0 lead.)
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #295 - 03/07/06 at 10:07:46
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It seems that the destination of the Dutch championship is almost as much of a foregone conclusion as the English Premiership ... which, lest we forget (ahem!) is supposed to be the subject of this particular thread ... Roll Eyes
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #294 - 03/07/06 at 03:03:30
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Already in ancient time the Greek hero was too strong for that city. BTW, if I remember my Greek mythology well, that Greek hero was known for his muscles - not for his brains. Seems appropriate.
Let us be fair. Heracles is a much harder nut to crack than Sparta these days. And PSV still will become national champ. How many points does Ajax lay behind again?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #293 - 03/06/06 at 10:29:51
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Just for Mnb's pleasure: Ajax-Sparta 6-0 with three goals of Stuntelaar, who also happens to lead the topscorer's list by quite a margin Grin

PS in the eastern derby Heracles lost to Twente Undecided
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #292 - 02/17/06 at 11:16:41
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I may not be quoting entirely accurately, but I believe what Lineker said was:

"Football is a simple game: 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes and at the end, the Germans win."

It was strange that he should put it quite like this, as I believe it was after England had lost on penalties to Germany in the 1990 World Cup Semi-Final, in which case presumably more than 22 men would have been involved, and for 120+ minutes.  But that is a minor quibble, of course: the comment cuts right to the heart of the English football fan's psyche.

In recent years the shoe has been on the other foot to some extent but I can't help thinking that the Germans are getting strong again at just the right time, and on home soil they will be dangerous opponents in the summer.

Worth putting a bet on now - not sure what odds you would get - on Michael Ballack scoring the goal that eliminates England ...
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #291 - 02/17/06 at 01:45:28
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"I don't even understand half the game of soccer."
Maybe Alumbrado or some other English speaking football (only in the USA it is called soccer) fan can give the famous statement of international Gary Lineker? He gave the essence of football in one line. I only know the Dutch translation and dare not to translate it back.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #290 - 02/16/06 at 09:27:22
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Whether Newcastle has a football team or not is something of a moot point at the moment ... But yes, Newcastle United is a Premiership team (for the time being ...).  They are not doing very well, though, and have recently sacked their manager, the former Liverpool (and Spurs) player Graeme Souness.

The club has a certain heritage and it is known for the passion of its fans - although part of me suspects that this is the work of the southern middle-class liberal media romanticising a northern and predominantly working-class city.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #289 - 02/16/06 at 03:52:54
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Over here in New England we don't get the premier league on the TV. Heck! I don't even understand half the game of soccer. When we do get a broadcast of an english soccer match it is on ESPN 2 at like 11:00AM on a Wed. morning. I try to watch for fights in the stands but I have yet to see any Tongue Where have all those soccer hoodlums gone??? Well I always will root for an underdog so I guess Newcastle gets my vote! Newcastle.....do they even have a team? Heck..if they do I'll love 'em anyway..they got that great Newcastle Brown Ale...stuffs the best! One ignorant New Englander in the USA hoping for more English soccer coverage since are version of football is over!
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #288 - 02/14/06 at 16:18:22
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"Are there more funny names of sportsmen?"

I was watching some curling yesterday from the winter olymics. A german player was repeatedly called "Andy Capp" which I thought was funny (and maybe a bit strange...)  Smiley
A little research today however showed that his real name is Andreas Kapp....

btw "Van Galen", where Galen = crazy
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #287 - 02/14/06 at 15:33:42
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It may please Mnb to know Ajax won again. With a goal of Huntelaar.  Grin
Also some new players are announced: Perez, Stam and Gentenaar
So not a bad week after all.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #286 - 02/10/06 at 05:38:08
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"Are there more funny names of sportsmen?" This one is a classic- Jacque Condom. A former french rugby international.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #285 - 02/10/06 at 03:18:33
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If the future of Ajax depends on a Stuntelaar I fear the worst. It is about as bad as having a Grabbelaar as goalie.

For the non-Dutch speaking readers:
Stuntelaar means bungler according to my dictionary.

Are there more funny names of sportsmen? TalJechin once explained me, what the meaning is of Van Galen in Swedish, but I have forgotten.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #284 - 02/09/06 at 08:53:35
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I doubt Blind will be able to follow my math as Ajax already turned down my offer of me becoming the head coach.
On the brighter side yesterday a 1-0 win against a relegation team Shocked
Huntelaar and Rosenberg seem to get better though Smiley
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #283 - 02/08/06 at 03:01:48
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Hey Willempie, nice calculation on the rook vs bishop subject. Maybe you can do the same for Danny Blind? Some calculation how the Ajax forwards can score goals and how the defense can prevent them might be very useful.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #282 - 02/06/06 at 18:52:27
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Glad to see the football thread is activated again. Kind of missed the banter esp on the eredivisie.

The Uterecht & Feyernoord defeats were really heart breaking. I'm willing to concede the title to PSV this season. At least we are still in the CL. Tough game against Inter tho. We'll be back next season for sure. Just hope Blind doesnt get any blinder!

In EPL with the sacking of Souness, the only way for Newcastle now is UP!
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #281 - 02/06/06 at 09:58:53
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Ah well, shit happens Sad
Still I remain optimistic, there is no way but up Grin

And luckily I am not one of those "only sing when you're winning types", so no need for pity.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #280 - 02/06/06 at 02:02:49
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Poor, poor Willempie. Ajax loses to FC Utrecht, which might not be to bad for him. But now in one weekend Ajax loses to Feyenoord and Utrecht loses to FC Twente.
Ajax plays so badly these days, it is not even fun anymore to mock.
Poor, poor Willempie.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #279 - 11/30/05 at 08:02:35
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Some sad and very unexpected news from this town. 
One of the players of FC Utrecht, Di Tommasso, died yesterday night in his sleep. Last year he was voted best player of the club and last sunday he was playing.
The guy was only 26 and leaves a wife and kid Embarrassed
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #278 - 11/28/05 at 11:35:05
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All have/had dutch coaches. T&T, South Korea & Australia have coaches who also coached the Oranje once upon a time.

South Korea had Hiddink, now newly appointed coach of Aussies running concurrently with his term as PSV coach. Advocaat now coaching SK, was PSV coach once upon a time.

Leo Beenhakker now coaches T&T was once coach of Ajax.

Full marks or 'A ' star? Grin
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #277 - 11/28/05 at 05:42:13
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Question for all Non-Dutchies:

The Netherlands, Trinidad&Tobago, South-Korea, Australia ....
What do they have in common?
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #276 - 11/24/05 at 12:03:13
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Quote:

Btw what is this about Ajax not scoring? We're through to the next round with a 2-1 win, while unfortunately PSV lost 3-0. That means Ajax has scored as many goals in one CL game as PSV in the entire CL so far.


I havent been in touch with all things football last few days, so this is indeed very good midweek news. & PSV losing by 3 Shocked is really the icing of the cake.

Now then, a penalty given away in each half......either a case of bad defending technique in the box, bad defenders or PSV is just plain bad. PSV will be out of the CL if they fail against Fenerbahce. Looking at the news....just maybe Hiddink is the bad one. Which coach ever says that a defeat is 'acceptable'???
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #275 - 11/24/05 at 07:25:58
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Rijkaard never played for PSV, nice try Mnb Tongue
He was also born in Amsterdam Wink

I think you confuse him with Koeman, who played for both teams.

Btw what is this about Ajax not scoring? We're through to the next round with a 2-1 win, while unfortunately PSV lost 3-0. That means Ajax has scored as many goals in one CL game as PSV in the entire CL so far.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #274 - 11/24/05 at 05:54:53
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and also a PSV-player .... Nice try, woofwoof.  Tongue
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #273 - 11/23/05 at 23:57:10
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Yes, & he was an Ajax player too!
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #272 - 11/23/05 at 08:46:08
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Don't forget to thank the coach - half Dutch, half Surinamese!
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #271 - 11/23/05 at 02:16:42
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Who knows! but what is true is 

Real Madrid 0 - Futbol Club Barcelona 3

What a game! This year Champiosleague is waiting for us!



  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #270 - 11/21/05 at 15:20:47
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Fantastic win over the Argies, especially those scousers. I hope those mancurians dont give any penalties away and don't get sent off like they always do.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #269 - 11/20/05 at 15:08:24
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Apparently Twente likes to help people out. The 1-0 was an own goal Grin

Still the Swede may be on to something since he scored the 2-0 (his 2nd Shocked goal this season)
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #268 - 11/20/05 at 12:10:18
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Newcastle lost 3-0 to the blues as expected Tongue. This is compensated by some joy in the eredivisie with Ajax winning against Twente, thus making up a little on PSV's lead.

Now really! Is RKC that hard to beat?
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #267 - 11/14/05 at 03:52:45
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Saw the game. I'll have to eat some grass regarding English goalies. The level could have been much worse, they could have had the Argentinian keeper. That guy is gonna cost them a lot of games at the WC if they dont find a replacement. I think even Ajax would have scored against him.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #266 - 11/13/05 at 14:28:03
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England 3 Argentina 2 (and with two Liverpudlians scoring, what could be better?)!!   

Let's see the team do that next Summer!
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #265 - 11/13/05 at 02:01:52
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Referring back to the World Cup qualifiers that occurred Saturday:  I only got to see the Trinidad & Tobago vs Bahrain match.  It was dull, dull dull until the last fifteen minutes or so.  Actually, it was worse than dull, it was frustrating that although T & T was clearly better, they feared Bahrain's counterattack too much to take any chances.  The game ended 1-1, with a return game scheduled.   

I saw that the Aussies were 1-0 losers to Uruguay, who had all sorts of gamesmanship going on before the match.  Was it a good game?  I'm still rooting for the Aussies to win the return match and finally get in on their own merits.  Apart from that, what other games were interesting?

For instance, Switzerland beating Turkey is fantastic from my perspective, but will the return match be as ugly as so many Turkey home games have been?
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #264 - 11/07/05 at 21:09:46
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MNb, perhaps my writing wasnt too clear. My not feeling to discuss the eredivisie has nothing to do with your mocking. I personally thought that some of your jibes were hilarious!

Its just that i was in 'mourning' due to the miserable & embarassing result against NEC.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #263 - 11/07/05 at 20:38:25
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Woofwoof, you don't understand (or maybe you do very well?). You see, one thing is for sure: sooner or later Ajax will recover. The club always does. That is why I must take the opportunity to mock now.
And of course, next year in Deutschland, it will be Willempie and me against ROW.
Willempie, I agree completely with your complaints on safety measures. I have lived in Zaandam. In case I wanted to watch my favourites play, say in Amsterdam, I had had to travel to Enschede, buy a combi-ticket and travel back to Amsterdam. After the match I had had to take the reverse route. That would have been a journey of about 2*150 miles. As the crow flies, the distance from my house to Amsterdam Arena was about 15 miles ...
« Last Edit: 11/07/05 at 22:08:25 by MNb »  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #262 - 11/07/05 at 14:20:35
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Well they did buy some good ones (Arveladze, Zlatan for example), but they bought a lot more bad ones. Unfortunately Babel is currently out of form. I think he could become a very good Kluivert-like striker.
Plus they have some good ones in the youth (eg they creamed Barcelona A1 with 3-0)
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #261 - 11/07/05 at 12:52:20
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No excuse, just bad play.....and the forwards just dont score


Read on ESPN that eversince Kluivert left theres no talent in the youth ranks to replace Van Basten, Bergkemp & Kluivert. So they resorted to buy strikers, unfortunately foreign strikers just cant seem to settle in the Ajax setup fast enough.

As i mentioned earlier.....season's still young anything can happen. Here's to a better coming weekend.
Wink
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #260 - 11/07/05 at 12:34:57
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Quote:

Looking at the results of the eredivisie in my paper De Ware Tijd (True Times) I cheered completely up. PSV won, FC Twente won and Ahahahahajax has conquered the next obstacle on its way to the poodle prize: a convincing loss against the always tough NEC.


Now you know why I dont feel like discussing the Eredivisie??  Oh well! there's always next weekend!! Still a long season to go. Many things can happen. Remember Newcastle during Keegan's management??

PSV cant afford to rest on their laurels cos Feyenoord & AZ are close by to exploit whatever PSV's screwups. We WILL be right there to capitalise & make up arrears.

I'll be really interested in the return game against PSV to make things up for that controversial penalty defeat. Hopefully a less biased ref for that game too! Grin But thats a long way yet!
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #259 - 11/07/05 at 12:13:49
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Willempie, what is the excuse this time? Did the shoes not fit well, so that the Ajax superstars had a little pain in the toes?
Nah, Blind should use you as striker. That hardly can make things worse.
FC Utrecht does not offer much comfort to you either.

No excuse, just bad play. Problem is as I see it is that certain players are completely out of form, combined with no player being able to pull the team through. Last year Heytinga did that, but he is completely out of form and the forwards just dont score. Rumour is that in the winter they're getting Huntelaar (and another I forgot) from Heerenveen. Good forward, but still young, so he wont be able to pull the team yet. Roll Eyes
Then again, the setup this year has changed, so you would need to finish 5th to be able to compete for CL spots. So if they dont turn it around the season may not be completely lost.

As to Utrecht. I never have much joy from them. I like them to win of course, but they cost me a sh*tload of money with all the security measures needed. Not to mention that parts of the city are blocked.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #258 - 11/07/05 at 12:03:44
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Hardly unique to him, though he should get carded for it of course. Just from Arsenal I can name you Ljungberg, Pires, Viera and sometimes Henry who often have a sudden attack of gravity. The only thing I find even more annoying is the asking for cards for your opponent (the combination is of course even worse).
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #257 - 11/07/05 at 12:02:53
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SF, Moengonese are only interested in football during WCh, so I know how you feel. Today one pupil asked me what I thought about Bayern München-Werder Bremen  Sad.

Looking at the results of the eredivisie in my paper De Ware Tijd (True Times) I cheered completely up. PSV won, FC Twente won and Ahahahahajax has conquered the next obstacle on its way to the poodle prize: a convincing loss against the always tough NEC. For those not familiar with the eredivisie: NEC is a very, very modest club from Nijmegen, an old Roman city at the river Waal. It is known because of the last bridge conquered by the allies in 1944; Arnhem was the bridge too far.
Willempie, what is the excuse this time? Did the shoes not fit well, so that the Ajax superstars had a little pain in the toes?
Nah, Blind should use you as striker. That hardly can make things worse.
FC Utrecht does not offer much comfort to you either.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #256 - 11/07/05 at 07:59:49
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Man U defeated the Blues, as others have pointed out.  I am curious:  Am I the only one who finds Christiano Ronaldo's diving about and not getting carded for unsportsmanlike conduct absolutely disgusting?  Or am I the only one who sees the "fouls" as not being fouls?

(remember, I watch soccer in complete isolation here and don't have a chance to chat with anyone about it)
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #255 - 11/07/05 at 06:27:26
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There was football this weekend here ???

I must have completely missed that Grin
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #254 - 11/07/05 at 06:05:29
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Well, the english series is more international. Yesterday, the american billionare's team beat the russian billionare's team, one - nil... Grin
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #253 - 11/07/05 at 05:52:56
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Why not? Nothing in football as important as the controverse Ajax - Rest of the Netherlands!
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #252 - 11/07/05 at 05:00:36
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I really dont feel like discussing the Eredivisie! Cry Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #251 - 11/07/05 at 04:56:40
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Quote:
Taljechin, to comfort you: you understand about as much of spoken Dutch as I do of spoken Swedish!   Maybe it is because my ancestors kicked yours out of my beloved country some 1200 years ago?


Were the vikings all the way down to Suriname??? Wow, that's impressive! Grin

I don't think your guys kicked our guys out though - they probably didn't like the weather and stopped going there... Grin

On the language similarities I suppose there are many small reasons, like both being germanic languages and then we've exchanged population a bit too, in the 15-1600 there were many swedes & norwegians working in Holland and in the 1600s during the many wars we imported a lot of Vallonian cannon makers. 

Btw, it seems we still import dutch farmers. In the news a couiple of months ago there was a story about dutchies selling their homes and moving to Värmland (a 'landscape' in mid Sweden by the Norwegian border) we're they've bought farms. So far, there's already about 500 dutch farmers in Värmland alone. I suppose it must be nice to move from one of the most crowded countries in Europe to one of the least crowded in the world.

PS

I still thinks it's a bit unlogical (or 'illogical' before some knowitall corrects me Wink ) not to pronunce a letter as it's written. G can be sh/j/g in swedish so you're not alone. 

The russian kh is a spanish j so why not add a dutch g ?!

But if this sound really is so important, why hasn't it gotten a letter of its own???
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #250 - 11/07/05 at 04:34:30
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Mnb, one minor correction. The ch is always pronounced as g with 2 exceptions. When it is a french loanword (which are almost always pronounced as in french), like in your chauffeur or champagne or when it is at the end of a word and then is pronounced as a long s, eg optisch and Portisch. There is btw a difference in pronunciation of v and f, but you have to be a Flemming to notice. My own accent is so screwed up already, by being born in an Amsterdam family and having lived in Utrecht that all nuances in pronunciation have disappeared. I swallow t's, my z is an s etc. Grin

Back to football. I see VdS saved the win against the evil blue team and that De Zeeuw (who here is heavily underestimated) is keeping Wigan alive and kicking.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #249 - 11/06/05 at 22:17:30
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"But a further similarity may be the unlogical pronunciation of some letters. In dutch g=ch and v=f"

I do not quite understand, why this is unlogical. On the g-ch matter:
As far as I know, Dutch is the only European language with the hard g, pronounced as if you scrape your throat. The ch in most European languages is pronounced as sj or tsj. Maybe Smyslov_Fan can tell me, if Khalifman is pronounced the same way; I am not sure.
The confusing part is the ch. In Dutch the prononciation of foreign words like chauffeur remains the same as in the original language. Original Dutch spelling would be sjofeur. When the ch follows the s though, it is like the hard g again: school, Scheveningen. An exception is the word chemie, it is one of the very few words with the ch at the beginning still pronounced with the hard g.
Beneath the three rivers and in Belgium hardly no one uses the hard g. I do not know any equivalent of the way Southern Dutchmen and Belgian pronounce the g.
All original Dutch words containing the g are pronounced this way. Call it uncommon, but it is not unlogical.

Theoretically there is a difference between the v and the f. The v is soft - like the English word vacant - while the f is hard - like the English word fly. Laziness has faded away the difference.

The way we use the letter c is very unlogical though: sometimes a s, sometimes a k. What's more: there is no difference between ou and au - both are pronounced like the English cow (kau or kou, it is exactly the same).

Taljechin, to comfort you: you understand about as much of spoken Dutch as I do of spoken Swedish!  Cheesy Maybe it is because my ancestors kicked yours out of my beloved country some 1200 years ago? Wink
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #248 - 11/06/05 at 10:12:13
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yeah, yet another philological and historical digression....


Taljechin, 

Your pronounciation of certain letters is reflected in the Scandinavian (Viking) influence on Russia.  As you may know, the Varangians traded and civilized large portions of Russia.  In fact, the very name is said to have come from Riurik, a Varangian (Viking) settler.

I know, it seems strange to think of the Vikings as traders and settlers, but that is where they left their greatest mark on Europe.  

As an historian, one of my all time favorite stories is the true story of Harald Hadradi.  (All the names and places are in English, so forgive me in advance if you know him aand others by other names.)

Harald was a nobleman who thought he deserved to rule what is now known as Norway.  He was rebuffed and sent into exile.  He travelled south through Russia, and soon ended up in the Varangian Guard of the Byzantine Empire.   This was the elite of the elite, and protected the Eastern Roman Empire (BYzantium) for centuries.  He rose to become the leader of the the Varangian Guard and gained the trust of the Emperor.  

He used that trust to kidnap the Emperor's neice.  He demanded and received a "king's ransom" under condition that he leave Byzantium and never return.  

During his own lifetime, ballads were composed of his bravery and effrontry.  He returned to Norway and bought the country with his ransom money!
 

As if that wasn't enough, he wanted more glory.  He heard that a distant relative, Edward, king of the Angles, had died leaving no heir.  Another distant relative, who was living in this kingdom, Harold Haroldson, took the throne.  

A third distant relative, who had been born in a Viking area of France known for its Norsemen (Normandy) also had an eye on this throne.  Nobody was really worried about the Norman since he wasn't even nobility, being a bastard of a nobleman.


Harald Hadradri invaded the island kingdom in the fall of 1066, after the crops had been collected and landed in the northern reaches of the country, known as the Danelaw.  Harold Haroldson, now King Harold I, raised an army and marched north.  After a forced march, Harold won a tremendous surprise victory at the Battle of Stamford Bridge, killing the legendary Hadradi and sending Hadradi to Oden's Hall.   Harold, being a Christian, wasn't too concerned with that though.

He received news that the bastard, now a Duke of Normandy, was attacking his southern coast.  In a feat of military brilliance that has been memorialized in word and pictures, Harold raced down to protect his capital and meet his cousin, William the Bastard and defend his throne again.  

Harold was unable to reach the beaches in time to drive off the invaders, but set up a defensive front in the hills around a small town called Hastings.  Harold and his weary men nearly staved off this foreign invasion, and William was even knocked off his horse and thought to be dead.  William rose again, got another horse, and one of his archers' arrows pierced Harold through the eye, killing him instantly.

Thus, the great Battle of Hastings was decided, and the Angles learned to speak French.  Well, some of them, anyway.




This is a great story, and it's made even better by being the truth!

Aint history amazing!!

It gets even better though:  These Vikings, who had really cool long boats that could weather the Atlantic ocean or travel the Dnepr and Volga Rivers, were also handy as roofs of their churches.  They would turn the boat upside down, and support it with arches that flew perpendicularly to the church.  These "flying" buttresses and light roofs helped to create a style that was derisively known as the "Gothic" style, and Gothic cathedrals popped up in western Europe, where Viking influence took hold!

Wow.  Vikings are cool.

Ok, back to the football!
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #247 - 11/06/05 at 00:57:20
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@Taljechin. Indeed very similar, except for the weird letters you have like ä, å and ö. I missed the ø though Grin


Well, ø is the danish version of ö. Strangely, swedish & dutch are close in writing but when hearing dutch I don't understand it more than icelandic i.e. not at all!   

But a further similarity may be the unlogical pronunciation of some letters. In dutch g=ch and v=f while we have less general rules, e.g: Ljungberg ['ju:ngberj] Källström [chaelstreum] g is g unless it ends a word or is followed by certain vowels, for example 'ge' then it's a 'j' and k is also either k or ch/sh depending on the following vowel...

Btw, I got to hand it to S_F, including Wigan was impressive (though Chelsea was probably the only team needed really...), I hadn't heard about them before this season. However, their 2nd place might not be totally inexplicable as I've recently learned they have a swedish forward... Grin
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #246 - 11/06/05 at 00:07:01
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I once heard a Scottish commentator say something very similar, "The coach is clueless, the field intoxicated, and the players are lost."

I don't know if he was paraphrasing the Dutch saying or quoting something else, or it was mere coincidence.  I would have guessed that the closest translation from the Dutch would be "...the players are ridiculous."

Back to football:  Wow, Wigan seems almost like they're for real!  The main problem I see for them is that they have a good starting eleven, but they won't have the bench to keep up the showing for the entire season.

The really good teams will still be there at the end, and I predict it will be Chelsea (of course), Arsenal, Liverpool (of course), and maybe Tottenham or Newcastle.  I don't think Man U has quite enough talent any more.  (And I still really despise the Portuguese player Ronaldo and his theatrical dives.  The refs should be showing him the card more than Rooney!)
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #245 - 11/05/05 at 19:46:50
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"They may win a knock-out game or two"

This is only 50% correct. PSV may, Ajax won't. The finals will be Chelsea-Barcelona or something like that. Anyhow it will be the triumph of much money. That is the difference with chess: in the latter Geist kann triumphieren über Stof.

A slight modification on Willempie's statement: Ajax will indeed win the poodle price this season.
For Ajax it is like 1672: de coach is radeloos, het bestuur is redeloos en het elftal is reddeloos.
The coach is desperate, the board is irrational, the team irretrievable. (In Dutch it sounds better).

We'll see, I have seen this before with Ajax. The year we won the championship and the CL didnt start that well either.
I disagree about the money. In a normal competition money will tell due to the statistics. In the "play-offs" the effect is much less, due to coincedence being an important factor. Last year neither Chel$ki or Real we-buy-every-star-we-can Madrid reached the final. I doubt they will this year. My personal feeling is it will be either of the Milans vs Lyons. I am just thinking (more hoping) there will be a dutch team in the final. They're certainly not favourites, but either team could do it.

@Taljechin. Indeed very similar, except for the weird letters you have like ä, å and ö. I missed the ø though Grin
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #244 - 11/05/05 at 12:41:55
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For Ajax it is like 1672: de coach is radeloos, het bestuur is redeloos en het elftal is reddeloos.
The coach is desperate, the board is irrational, the team irretrievable. (In Dutch it sounds better).


Cheesy 

A nice example of the closeness of Swedish & Dutch. In swedish it'd be:

'Coachen är rådlös, styrelsen redlös och hela lagelvan räddningslös'

(though swe to eng it's more like: 'the coach is clueless, the board intoxicated and the players irretreviably lost' but that might be what you wanted to say too...)
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #243 - 11/05/05 at 12:01:38
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EPL fans watch out!

Liverpool has just won two in a row, beating Aston Villa away!  Go Reds!
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #242 - 11/05/05 at 08:49:05
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"They may win a knock-out game or two"

This is only 50% correct. PSV may, Ajax won't. The finals will be Chelsea-Barcelona or something like that. Anyhow it will be the triumph of much money. That is the difference with chess: in the latter Geist kann triumphieren über Stof.

A slight modification on Willempie's statement: Ajax will indeed win the poodle price this season.
For Ajax it is like 1672: de coach is radeloos, het bestuur is redeloos en het elftal is reddeloos.
The coach is desperate, the board is irrational, the team irretrievable. (In Dutch it sounds better).
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #241 - 11/04/05 at 23:50:58
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The CL big picture hasn't changed much since last year.  In order to win, you will have to go through some great Spanish teams, English, teams, or a German/Italian team.  The Dutch entries are entertaining, but when PSV couldn't beat AC Milan in the semis last year, I was slightly disappointed.  Ok, only slightly, since my Kop made it to the final and weren't going to be denied! Cheesy

So, keep chatting all you like about Ajax and PSV.  They may win a knock-out game or two between them, but watch out for the Limeys and the Spanish teams!
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #240 - 11/04/05 at 18:18:25
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You misunderstand. Ajax will win this season, just saying other teams invoke other help like hiring excellent coaches and referees. We dont need that so it doesnt mean Ajax shouldnt win Grin

Btw it would make an excellent CL final Ajax-PSV and also my preferred one with a preferred result Grin
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #239 - 11/04/05 at 16:08:00
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Ah, yes. This is a nice new variation of the usual Ajax excuse: it is the referee's fault.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #238 - 11/04/05 at 05:58:00
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I agree. Beating Milan is easy, Ajax has done that a lot of times, whereas I have never seen PSV beating powerhouse Thun Grin

Still I dont see the big difference between PSV and Ajax at this moment. Yes PSV wins a bit more games with 1 goal difference, but that has been the case since I can remember. On the other hand when the referee is not cooperating they get creamed (eg their 2nd game).
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #237 - 11/03/05 at 20:57:36
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Well, one swallow does not make a summer yet. Moreover the relation is not necessary reversible. Good teams compel luck, but lucky teams are usually not that good. Ajax obviously falls in the second category.
Let us be honest. Beating Thun is really not the same as beating AC Milan. Where is Thun on the Swiss football ranking at the moment? No, Ajax' win does not mean anything.

"I wont go into this discussion again."
Neither will I. As a few posters accused me of being too patriottistic, I will repeat here, that I think both Gerd Müller and Romario (and also Cruijff!) better strikers than Van Basten.
I only hope, that the trainer-coach of the English team will share Alumbrado's opinions on keepers. That will make our job easier.  Tongue
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #236 - 11/03/05 at 10:54:40
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Well I will wait for the weekend to see if they can keep it up.
And the end of the season will show which team is the better. Unlike certain somebodies I remain confident even if there is a setback Wink
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #235 - 11/03/05 at 10:18:07
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But finally there is some excellent news. With appallingly bad football for Ajax' standards, Ajax won their CL game with 4 goals Shocked


Somebody here did write sometime last week that a "good team compels luck". So going by that reasoning & the CL game won despite appalling football he definitely has to agree that Ajax is indeed a very good team afterall! So Ajax is anything but dead.  isnt that so, Willempie?

I wonder if us Ajax people can say the same thing about his PSV?? Grin
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #234 - 11/03/05 at 05:24:34
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I wont go into this discussion again. I'll just simply state that vdS hasnt cost our team any points ever, while that certainly cant be said of Shilton.

VdS imo is one of the best keepers at this moment and has been for some time. He is quite unspectecular, but he also makes very few errors, plus his footballing qualities are a nice bonus.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #233 - 11/03/05 at 04:53:31
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Well, the general consensus, includign the opinion of Roy Keane, is that van der Sar should have made the save.  But in fairness he made a truly excellent save in the CL match last night.  I am not denying that vdS is a good keeper, nor am I making any claims for the current crop of English g/k "talent" - far from it, I think David James in particular should be taken out and shot - merely that vdS is not in the same league as someone like Shilton was at his peak.

This is not a nationalisic point - I would contend that Peter Schmeichel, a Dane, was better than anyone I have ever seen (despite being so beautifully chipped by Davor Suker that time ...).

Nor, by the way, is it an anti-Dutch thing - I would equally contend that the best striker I have ever seen was Marco van Basten.

I just don't think van der Sar is all that good!
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #232 - 11/02/05 at 20:37:20
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Congrats to Ajax and PSV.

Let's see...

Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool..... 8)
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #231 - 11/02/05 at 18:38:28
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Havent seen the game, so I dont know what exactly happened. But unlike certain English keepers a blunder of Van der Sar means that he didnt get a "saveable" ball, so I dont take it too seriously.

But finally there is some excellent news. With appallingly bad football for Ajax' standards, Ajax won their CL game with 4 goals Shocked
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #230 - 11/02/05 at 11:45:19
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I notice that the fans of van der Sar have not taked too much about the Middlesbrough-Manyoo game ...
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #229 - 11/02/05 at 06:02:24
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Yes, not to mention the Dutch hooligans, who have become even more infamous than the English ones.  Embarrassed
Still I think Hiddink and Van Basten do a fantastic job.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #228 - 11/02/05 at 00:54:58
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MNb, 

Dutch football isn't dead, just boooooooorrrrrrriinnnnng.  Grin

Ok, So I do follow PSV and Ajax and used to root for them until I found out from Chess Pub that the Dutch are just as arrogant and pig-headed about soccer as I am!

(I'll still root for the Dutch teams despite that last fact!)
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #227 - 11/01/05 at 20:22:09
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PSV beats AC Milan and is first in its group! Who said, that Dutch club football is dead? Well, Ajax is close to it, of course.
Maybe Blind can take some lessons from Hiddink?
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #226 - 10/31/05 at 02:24:43
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Middlesborough is just a few miles from Whitby, the town I grew up in, so I am doubly excited to see them beat the Mancs!  I doubt I will ever grow tired of the Man U losing!

But even better news for England is that the top eleven are playing well and (crossing fingers) injury-free.  Well, except for Becks and his back.  Maybe he knows someone who can give him a really good massage? Grin
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #225 - 10/30/05 at 13:00:54
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Newcastle wins!! Yahoo! Owen & Shearer scoring. Now for the even better news: Boro beats Man U 4-1 Shocked. Way to go Boro!! Grin
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #224 - 10/29/05 at 12:18:50
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From the looks of the schedule, the game of the day was Spurs-Arsenal. Local derbies whether on Merseyside, London, Manchester, Northeast (Newcastle, Boro) or the Midlands (Birmingham, Villa) always produce some of the best games of the season.

Perhaps maybe too early to say anything just yet, but Everton seems to be pulling their socks up beating Birmingham & overtaking them in the standings with a game in hand. But they sure need to start scoring goals given their goal draught currently.

Tomorrow's games would be Man U-Boro, Man City-Villa & Newcastle -WBA. All teams DESPERATELY needing wins for respective reasons. So I would expect a thrilling footballing Sunday.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #223 - 10/29/05 at 11:36:29
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Wigan's up to second place again with a win over Fulham in the 90th minute!  WOW!

Liverpool finally showed it can win against EPL opposition with a convincing win against West Ham.  The game of the day (so far) seems to be Spurs-Gunners, which ended 1-1.  Did anyone get to see any other exciting EPL games that we should know about?
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #222 - 10/28/05 at 16:08:28
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No, it was just a silly joke of mine, with the intention to provoke a reaction.  Wink
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #221 - 10/28/05 at 09:15:06
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That name is always rendered as "Seedorf" in the UK - is that incorrect?
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #220 - 10/28/05 at 05:46:11
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Players in Brittain should not try to imitate Dutch football players of course, that always leads to disaster.
Honest as I am, I must point out that another Dutchman, Clarence Saydorph, also has an impressive record on taking penalties.
To avoid misunderstandings: I find CS a very sympathetic chap. He has done a lot for Surinamese football - sponsored a sports centre.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #219 - 10/28/05 at 04:43:10
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Maybe, just maybe, the best football in the world is being played in England regardless of the money.


Just stumbled on the following penalty shot (the worst ever in pro football?) commented in dutch, so I suppose it belongs here... Cheesy

http://media.putfile.com/Pires-Arsenal-Penalty
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #218 - 10/26/05 at 07:34:01
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I'm sure any of the Liverpool fans on the forum could tell you that it is important to have forwards scoring goals.

Liverpool finally managed to score a goal last night - but only because Steven Gerrard was back in the team.  And it didn't stop the "European Champions" (big joke!) going down 2-1 to the Super Eagles (after losing 2-0 to Fulham on Saturday).
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #217 - 10/25/05 at 21:35:02
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This I don't understand. Isn't scoring the forwards' first and last job? I mean, guys like Gerd Müller and Romario never ever played well, but scored quite a few important goals.
Hey Willempie, if Ajax contracts you, I will become fan of the club.  Wink
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #216 - 10/25/05 at 10:36:12
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Aha, I understand. Ajax just has bad forwards, or maybe even a bad team.

The team aint bad, they just dont score. Even the forwards dont play bad, they just seem to turn into the 3 stooges when thet see the goal.
I am thinking of applying for the job of center forward myself. Surely I would have scored from one of the gazillion chances they have missed in the last 8 games and I am probably cheaper as well Grin
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #215 - 10/25/05 at 10:22:42
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Aha, I understand. Ajax just has bad forwards, or maybe even a bad team.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #214 - 10/25/05 at 00:08:37
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And now back to the really important news again: Ajax will not be Dutch champion this year - lucky Ajax has a lot of bad luck these days. As the Dutch saying goes: good teams compel luck. Don't you agree, Willempie?

Wouldnt call it bad luck. Forwards dont have bad or good luck when it comes to scoring. And anyway it would have been a draw if it wasnt for an obvious dive.

And anyway I dont throw in the towel just yet. I have seen too many teams making up such a difference Grin
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #213 - 10/24/05 at 23:45:08
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ok, ok, 

Losing to Luton (who??) was painful and embarrassing, but we still have two games in hand compared to some of our companions.  We'll do ok in the long run, and that's all that matters.   

Chelsea is amazing this year, and anyone who watches them should recognise how special they are.  They are the Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, AC Milan, you name the great team, of this year.

Oh, and about the English Premiership:  Liverpool is in great position in Europe is merely an average team (at the moment) in its own league.  Maybe, just maybe, the best football in the world is being played in England regardless of the money.

If it were just about money, the US would have better talent and teams than we do.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #212 - 10/24/05 at 20:52:21
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And now back to the really important news again: Ajax will not be Dutch champion this year - lucky Ajax has a lot of bad luck these days. As the Dutch saying goes: good teams compel luck. Don't you agree, Willempie?

Those English teams leading in the Champions League: not a matter of English football talent - that hardly exists anymore - but of money buying continental players.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #211 - 10/24/05 at 08:51:11
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Yea. Spurs are doing well. Best start to the season in years! Its so good to see them where they are now. I really lost interest with Spurs after Hoddle et al left & all those managers who advocate ugly football took over. Looks like Jol is finally restoring things there & getting them to play the way they were known to play in the past. (i'm still sentimental abt them)

As far as Newcastle is concerned.... it sure is nice to have Liverpool for company Grin.  To rub shoulders with the European Champs is really something. Is a 4th place finish ala Houllier a target for this season as well? Grin
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #210 - 10/24/05 at 02:20:01
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I see Liverpool is doing rather well in the premiership. They may even be able to reach the top half. Grin

Luckily Spurs are doing rather well.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #209 - 10/21/05 at 23:43:01
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Hmmm....

Halfway through the first group stages in the Champions' League, three groups are headed by English teams and the English team not in clear first is Liverpool, tied with Chelsea.  Italy has two teams, Germany one, and so on.   

(Singing quietly, "Pass the Dutchie on the Left hand side") Grin
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #208 - 10/21/05 at 17:28:15
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Would be a better idea with hindsight, though around 1900 one went for heroes.
And for your other proposals, Ajax only became a club with jewish influence in the 30s. Some chairs want to ignore it, but we are a real 50% jewish club, the other 50% is Amsterdam-dutch.
I am Amsterdam-born and you know.

PS I am almost 30 but Petterson is one of my favourite players
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #207 - 10/21/05 at 11:13:31
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Why Greek heroes, are there really no dutch heroes???

If you have to name a team after someone, I'd prefer e.g: 'Anne Frank' or 'Team Timman' to any god, nine days a week. 

- Stefan Pettersson?? How old are you?! I think even most Gothenburgers have forgotten him...
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #206 - 10/21/05 at 10:45:53
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"Ajax is more important than any other football thing"
Just a slight nuance: half of the Dutchies only think Ajax interesting if the team plays badly.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #205 - 10/21/05 at 08:02:37
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No we're luckily not named after a sponsor, we are not Bayer Leverkusen or PSV after all.
Ajax is over a 100 years old and named after the Greek hero. We've got a couple of clubs with names like that: Sparta, Excelsior, Fortuna and Heracles. Personally I like them better than placenames or brandnames.

If you're interested, this is a very good site with history of Ajax by an American ( Shocked) fan: www.ajaxusa.com

PS I thought Stefan Petterson was from Göteborg?
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #204 - 10/21/05 at 07:23:23
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That must be why we always get Swedish forwards Grin

PS It is a cleaning brand everywhere in Europe I thought.


Actually, you've only had Scanian forwards, as both Zlatan and Rosenberg played for Malmö. Can't you afford the good stuff from Brazil, instead of draining our already crappy team? Grin


I just assumed that Ajax was a local swedish brand name, as the same products seem to change names depending on country. But if it's so international I suppose the team is named after its main sponsor?!  Shocked 

Call me old fashioned, but I prefer the city names...  Undecided 

But maybe there'd be even more money in a whole series of Golf vs Exxon, Shell vs Volvo, Ajax vs VIA Color etc Cheesy
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #203 - 10/21/05 at 06:57:56
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That must be why we always get Swedish forwards Grin

PS It is a cleaning brand everywhere in Europe I thought.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #202 - 10/21/05 at 03:16:32
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Ajax is more important than any other football thing


Ajax is a brand of cleaning liquid in Sweden, and such things *are* of course more important than football, so you're right!   
Grin
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #201 - 10/21/05 at 00:30:34
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Maybe because the title of the thread is like asking "who will win the female Wch and Judit Polgar is playing" Grin
The way I see it 1st place is already a given. Dont see anyone passing Chelsea unfortunately. And you have to be fair, Ajax is more important than any other football thing Grin
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #200 - 10/20/05 at 22:46:45
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No real Dutchman cares about Liverpool, when Ajax does not manage to beat Heracles. Compared to this English Premiership is simply not important enough.
But I agree, that I should be a little more modest, as my favourites do not very well until now.

BTW: we are still 2nd on the FIFA list. Where are England and Sweden, just to name two?
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #199 - 10/20/05 at 16:59:32
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I had to re-read the topic heading after seeing the last few posts.  What, do the Dutchies here think nobody would read a thread about Dutch league soccer?  Lips Sealed

Ok, so I actually enjoy some talk about the other leagues.  But Liverpool just won against Blackburn and Chelsea is having a record breaking run at the start of the season.  Everyone's ignoring Liverpool right now which is just fine.  We've played two games fewer than many of the other teams, and we are still doing fine in Europe (I guess I should check on how we did today, huh?)

Anyway, enough ranting against the Dutch.  Last time I suggested that the Dutch had a great World Champion chess player I got egged by the Dutch fans because I didn't agree he was the best! Tongue  Now, I expect them to throw the whole chicken at me! Grin
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #198 - 10/20/05 at 05:16:45
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Well Ajax finally managed to score, with the silly Swede on the bench and even win against the mighty FC Thun Grin
PSV drew in Milan, so it is beginning to look a bit more decent again.
Our southern neighbours from Anderlecht have achieved a new record. They have lost 10 champions league matches in a row Shocked
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #197 - 10/18/05 at 11:17:08
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The result must have been traumatic for Willempie given that he already seems to be in a state of denial. Wink

Well as far as i'm concerned... The Ajax game was another disappointing football result apart from the Newcastle game. 

The exploits of Team Renault F1 adding the constructor's title to the Driver's title on Sunday sure makes up for the sheer disappointment in the footballing sense last weekend. I'm still riding on a high! ooooHHH! That sure sounds like escapism all of a sudden Shocked
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #196 - 10/18/05 at 02:31:30
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Heracles? I dont know any Heracles, is that some wannabe hero trying to steal the spotlight from the true Greek hero Ajax?
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #195 - 10/17/05 at 21:54:38
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No comments by Willempie on the achievements of Ajax last weekend. How come? Is Heracles (who? I hear the non Dutch football fanatics shout) such a hard nut to crack?
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #194 - 10/16/05 at 09:00:35
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I just saw the fourth round draw for the English FA Cup.  I grew up in Whitby, Yorkshire, and to see Harrogate play Scarborough is wonderful!  That means that at least one of the local teams I saw play when I was young will make it to round 5!   

I wonder who Richard Palliser will be rooting for!
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #193 - 10/15/05 at 09:26:29
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Cry Cry Cry Angry

What a *&^%$#@ embaressment!!! Oh! the shame of it all!!
All credit to Wigan for exploiting such @#$%$# feeble play from Newcastle. Tongue
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #192 - 10/15/05 at 08:45:48
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WIGAN BEATS NEWCASTLE! 

Wigan are now in second place in the Premiership!   


(Ok, so it will only last about 90 minutes, but still, what an incredible feat for the newly promoted Athletics!)
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #191 - 10/03/05 at 08:30:30
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Finally a decent weekend Smiley
Ajax seems to be getting slowly back into shape, with a narrow win, while my city Utrecht were the first to beat F****noord in great style.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #190 - 10/02/05 at 12:59:49
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My!!! 1st The Reds hold Chelsea to a goalless draw in Europe, now they lose 4-1 at home in the league to the same team. How's that for inconsistancy??

With Spurs beating Charlton away, it has really opened up competition for 2nd place now, for the top 11 teams minus Chelsea. With just under a quarter of the season gone & a 9 pt gap already established, I wont be surprised that they end up running away with the title..... unless they have a major hiccup in form around the x'mas/new year period.

Newcastle goalless draw against Portsmouth Tongue. A win would really capitalise on the failure of Charlton & Bolton from pulling away from the rest. Still a point is better than none. Thanks, Wigan & Spurs!
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #189 - 09/30/05 at 03:33:18
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Ok Mnb you got me now. I figured you must be a lightbulb except for the past glory comment, though of course you keep mentioning people like Van Beveren, Van der Kuylen and some other PSV players.

I enjoyed the centennial, except for the results of course Roll Eyes
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #188 - 09/29/05 at 22:33:27
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"I think Mnb is a Feyenoord fan"
Absolutely not. I will give you two hints:
I relish in past glory.
As I wrote in a previous thread, I enjoyed Ajax' 100th anniversary. Willempie probably didn't.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #187 - 09/29/05 at 09:59:47
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Willempie, 

True dat!
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #186 - 09/29/05 at 09:48:50
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I guess it makes a bit of a difference if you are personally involved Wink
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #185 - 09/29/05 at 09:10:25
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I did see a different game than you did, Willempie.

I saw Liverpool pressing throughout the second half.  They often sent players up the wing, and even had pressure in the middle of the penalty area several times.  The marking was incredibly tight, and Cisse had very little impact on the game.  But Liverpool took quite a few small risks and deserved the game winner.  

This particular game sorely missed an early goal to open things up. But even so, the Reds played a very attractive game, often stringing together series of one-touch passing left people open for a searching cross or a dangerous shot.  Liverpool had a large number of set plays and looked very dangerous at times.  A lesser team could easily have lost 3-0, even without the two penalties not being called.

I'm not pretending this deserves to be the greatest game ever, but I'm also not going to grouse about the scoreline or the lack of imagination shown by my home boys.  

There are going to be at least three more matches between these two teams, and there will be plenty of goals.  (Hopefully all scored by the ones wearing the Liver Bird!)
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #184 - 09/29/05 at 08:57:48
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No it doesnt imho. The 2 wingers are kept on the midfield and tend to have defensive assignment, while the centre midfield just passes to each other. You can play 4-5-1 agressively, but not like this. Now they have defense as first assignment, not taking risks as 2nd and only then they can do something, but then they usually have 2 defenders to deal with, because the rest of the midfield keeps hanging.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #183 - 09/29/05 at 08:57:25
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Woofwoof, 

Thanks for pointing out the error.  Embarrassed I knew it as soon as I typed it, but still couldn't think of Chelsea's manager's name anyway.  I must be getting old.  

Btw, 

Is it Josay or Hosay?  Here in the US, the comentators were pronouncing it with a soft J, but all the Jose' s that I know are Hosay. I did notice some Spanish pronounciations of names (as opposed to Mexican or Latin American), but I thought the "J" was an "h" sound throughout the Spanish speaking world.

  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #182 - 09/29/05 at 04:39:33
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@Smyslov-Fernando Morientes is the Liverpool forward. Jose Mourinho is the Chelsea manager.

@willempie- I think Duff & Robben fit in quite well in a 4-5-1 formation since they are wingers. (3 central midfielders + 2wingers) Fast & imaginative ball players to provide crosses to their lone forward. Crouch?? Well, you got me there!
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #181 - 09/29/05 at 04:29:05
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Have we been watching the same match? Chances to score were countable on the fingers of one hand. Lots of stuff going on on the midfield without anything special coming out of it. I mean what can Crouch do when the nearest player is at least 10 meters behind him or a player like Robben when the priority seems to be not to take risks on the midfield (a depth pass seems to be outlawed by Moneynho)?
It is not just Chelsea and Liverpool, to be fair. Half the premier league seems to be infected by the catenaccio virus.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #180 - 09/29/05 at 04:11:47
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I haven't been wowed by Crouch's performance yet, but he did draw quite a few fouls.  He never looked a threat tho, and I'm not sure that if he had been free to roam he would have been any more dangerous.   

Who knows though, maybe Benitez actually knows what he's doing.  Morientes, the Chelsea manager definitely knows what he's doing, but I agree that Robben was not at all special against L'pool today.  Duff looked tired from the beginning.  Maybe he wasn't in top form. 

Which brings us to this weekend's rematch.  Boy, this is exciting stuff!  I don't like that UEFA has the semi-finalists from last year playing each other in two different groups this year, but it sure makes for some great, intriguing soccer.

Here in the US, the commentators were complaining about the goalless draw.  I know I'm a Liverpool fan, but what I saw was a really tense, interesting struggle for Liverpool to prove its advantage while Chelsea strove for the draw.   

This was world-class soccer.  It was a bit stodgy, but considering what was at stake, Liverpool really made Chelsea work hard to keep it scoreless.  Both goalies earned their keep on Wednesday.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #179 - 09/29/05 at 03:55:05
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I think that is why he moved to Surinam. He couldnt cope with Ajax' combination of arrogance and success Wink

I am guessing, but I think Mnb is a Feyenoord fan. They are usually very anti-Ajax. I used to have this colleague who was a Feyenoord fan and we used to exchange some nice emails on monday if there had been a nice result by either. I did notice however he was very often ill on the monday after a FEyenoord-Ajax match Grin

Another thing I was wondering about. Why in the hell do teams like Liverpool and Chelsea spend so much money on players like Duff, Robben and Crouch if they intend to play 4-5-1 anyway. As one of the commentators here put it: "I dont get the impression I am looking at some superstars. It is more like watching a relegation duel".

BtW the foul on Hyppia was indeed a penalty and I had the impression the other was a penalty as well. Then again yesterday with PSV the center forward got 2 yellows in 5 minutes. One for hands in the penalty box (which is obvious) and one for holding a player's shirt a bit too obvious in the middle circle (!). These were the only 2 yellows, while some major fouls (among which things like kicking and tackles on the ankles) were left unpunished, but were whistled for. So it can always be worse Wink
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #178 - 09/28/05 at 23:28:26
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I take it you are not an Ajax supporter, MNb??

I too was quite pissed by the result of the Arsenal game.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #177 - 09/28/05 at 22:32:40
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"Ajax underperformed again"
That's only good news. Ajax needs about ten losses against one win to keep it's arrogance under control.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #176 - 09/28/05 at 21:13:20
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Van der Sar is indeed an excellent goalie, but Liverpool have a certain goalkeeper that is looking like he's worth every penny.  And I hate to bring this up, but America doesn't have too bad a goalie either.  

BTW, how many of you agree that Liverpool was robbed of two penalties in their game against Chelsea today (Wednesday)?
« Last Edit: 09/28/05 at 22:37:56 by Smyslov_Fan »  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #175 - 09/28/05 at 12:16:03
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Well, the more impartial commentators on swedish tv last night all agreed that it was an obvious penalty...

Anyway, since you keep mentioning that lucky win of yours  Angry  I certainly hope we play Holland in Germany next year - hopefully in the final so we're sure to win!  Grin
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #174 - 09/28/05 at 10:04:47
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I didnt even think the penalty should have been given. The keeper went for the ball and the player wen over his shoulders in typical Stoichkov style. The other goal was just plain stupid play by Ajax.

You're right that some book advocated this approach for penalties. Van der Sar (imo the best keeper since Smeichel stopped, but who I think never stopped a penalty) took up some of their advice, with the result that Sweden is the only country to have lost on penalties from Holland.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #173 - 09/28/05 at 09:11:49
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Well, both the 'Swedish' goal were very pretty! (i.e. Malmö FF - Halmstad 1-1)  Grin

The penality shot was indeed lucky as the goalie should have taken it if he'd remained standing or thrown himself the other way... Actually, how come that the goalies generally don't remain standing? As this was proclaimed to be the best strategy at penalties according to a (dutch?) survey published just before the latest Euro Ch, if my memory serves me...
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #172 - 09/28/05 at 07:58:59
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True, they were playing like it was a summer evening match against some amateur team. Still the goals were a bit lucky (and dont say otherwise as you would feel the wrath of an angry Ajax fan Wink).
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #171 - 09/28/05 at 07:37:30
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Quote:
I am annoyed to use an understatement. Ajax underperformed again against a lucky Arsenal. Angry


That's what happens when you don't use your Swede until the 2nd half... Wink

Considering how longwinded and toothless Ajax played in the first half, Arsenal fully deserved the win imo.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #170 - 09/28/05 at 07:17:41
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I am annoyed to use an understatement. Ajax underperformed again against a lucky Arsenal. Angry
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #169 - 09/28/05 at 07:11:23
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Well, I support Crystal Palace (my nearest team when I was growing up), but now I have moved into central London, Chelsea are my nearest team (marginally closer to me than Fulham and QPR).  So really, in a match like this, I have to back Chelsea.  Sorry S_F  Undecided
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #168 - 09/27/05 at 18:30:32
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Hi all!  

Tomorrow's the first installment of what promises to be a monumental rivalry this year.

Liverpool is at home to Chelsea in the UEFA Champions' League group round. 

LET'S GO REDS!
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #167 - 09/27/05 at 10:15:09
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I remember a brief period during the early to mid eighties where Everton all of a sudden had a real burst of form .League Winners, FA Cups & Cup Winners Cup etc. Kevin Sheedy really had a nasty left foot, Andy Gray & Graeme Sharp scoring regularly & Neville Southall being at peak form in goal. Its kinda sad to see them where they are now even tho im not a supporter.  It was remarkable to see them getting a champions league place despite having no real stars in the team.

On a seperate note, I'm quite surprised to see West Ham doing really well at the moment. Wigan being a minnows team maintaining a mid table posn currently is impressive.

I think its really good for football as a whole when the lesser teams outperform or hold their own against the bigger boys if not the real big ones. It proves money, status & bigger egos dont necessarily translate into winning matches.

@Smyslov - whats with your attraction to Wigan if i may ask?
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #166 - 09/26/05 at 23:37:02
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Read carefully what I said:  Half of my own family roots for Everton.   It's almost like a civil war when the two sides play each other.  But I think deep down, every Skouse would like to see Liverpool play Everton in the final of every trophy.  I don't ever want to see Everton ahead of Liverpool, but I'd rather see Everton win the FA or Premiership than Man United or Arsenal.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #165 - 09/26/05 at 03:36:22
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How can Everton be a favourite team if you root for Liverpool? Shocked ???
I am shocked Shocked
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #164 - 09/26/05 at 01:46:32
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BTW,  Newcastle beating Man City this week wasn't the Blues' big surprise loss.  Falling out of the Carling Cup was.  Wow! Shocked
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #163 - 09/26/05 at 01:45:10
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Good point, woofwoof.   

I have a hard time with Everton since it's one of my family's favorite teams.  I thought after last season they'd have a chance to move up, but they look pretty horrible right now.   

In fact, right at this moment, my choice to include Wigan is looking brilliant, if I may say so myself!  Grin

Anyway, I'll hold off for now, but after mid-October we should be able to figure out the top 8 or so.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #162 - 09/26/05 at 01:19:53
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I say we wait on it a bit. Newcastle may just blow up into inconsistancy again. I also dread to think what might happen if Owen's hamstring acts up again since they dont have depth in the striker's department. Amoebi is improving as a player but I dont think he's adequate cover for both Owen & Shearer for this season at least.

For now I dare say Tottenham Hotspur if an immediate change is wanted. They seem to be having a decent season so far......better than previous years anyway. I think we can change around as the season progresses.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #161 - 09/26/05 at 01:05:43
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I think it's about time to take Everton off the list and put Newcastle on.  What do you all think?
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #160 - 09/26/05 at 00:06:38
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Newcastle beat Man City 1-0 courtesy of Owen. Hope this good form continues. 

With Fernando Alonso winning the F-1 Driver's championship with Renault at Interlagos, Brazil; it was a real good sporting weekend for me.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #159 - 09/20/05 at 09:02:23
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I looked at Liverpool's schedule the other day.  We still have two games in hand, so don't count us out yet.  Also, take a look at Arsenal.  Sure, Chelsea's fired out of the starting blocks, but they're not impossible.  After all, they nearly drew their first home game against Wigan!  BTW, Liverpool get to play Chelsea twice in a row in the Champions' League.  Once Chelsea starts its European season in earnest, they'll have to choose who to rest and which games to push for just as Liverpool and Arsenal have already been doing.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #158 - 09/20/05 at 04:46:28
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Not just according to the poll - look at the league table!  It will be over by Easter this season.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #157 - 09/20/05 at 03:15:05
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Quote:
Back to the English Premiership:

I think it's just about safe to rule Everton out of the race for the Premiership this season.  Who should I put in their place?


According to the poll it's a one horse race, so why not remove everyone except Chelsea!? Grin
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #156 - 09/20/05 at 03:10:08
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Quote:
To my amazement the Orange team has made it to the 2nd position on the FIFA list. Are the other national teams that bad?


Yes, it's a big mystery! Wink

Perhaps FIFA only counts friendlys? The ranking should of course only count the qualification games over the last decade! Smiley Cheesy Grin
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #155 - 09/20/05 at 02:39:39
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We didnt win because we werent invited. It is kind of hard to win a tournament when you're absent. 

Anyway we have an excellent record for tournaments in Germany, we always reach the final and 50% of the time we win the title.

That got me thinking, have the English ever won anything after '66 or away from home?

*Note: last question is rhetorical Wink
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #154 - 09/20/05 at 02:35:47
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To continue another idea...

Ronaldhino won FIFA player of the Year...
Wayne Rooney, of Manchester United Red Card fame, won the FIFA young player of the year.  I can proudly say that two of my cousins played with him in one of the competitive teams in Liverpool.  (I don't remember which one now, but there aren't that many.)

Ronaldhino's comments about the best teams and leagues in the world are interesting.  Check them out at BBC.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #153 - 09/20/05 at 02:32:13
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Back to the English Premiership:

I think it's just about safe to rule Everton out of the race for the Premiership this season.  Who should I put in their place?
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #152 - 09/20/05 at 02:31:14
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Hmmm, Willempie and all the Dutch fans out there:  remember this last summer?  Who won that little tournament the Germans held?  Who came in second?  What will be the most likely result of the little tournament the Germans are hosting next summer?

Hmmm... Gives you something to think about.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #151 - 09/20/05 at 02:18:42
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Nah it is just that their ranking system is getting better. Now they are only one spot off Grin
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #150 - 09/20/05 at 00:09:56
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To my amazement the Orange team has made it to the 2nd position on the FIFA list. Are the other national teams that bad?
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #149 - 09/19/05 at 14:05:37
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I just looked up the finalists for the FIFPro world player of the year.  The 55 players are dominated by European teams, and specifically English and Spanish slightly more than the Italians.  The Spanish are heavily represented by just two sides (you only get to guess twice as to which they are) while the English have players from several teams represented.  Bayern Muenchen is also represented.  This seems to support my claim that the two best leagues in the World are the English and Spanish leagues.  And also, it seems to support my claim that Spain has two great teams then there's a drop-off in talent. 

BTW, Ronaldhino is the favorite to win the World Player of the Year again.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #148 - 09/19/05 at 11:55:29
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Way to go MNb!! Looks like you & me share some things in  common both in chess & football! What you wrote are my sentiments exactly Grin

Boy! i just gotta let out a huge sigh of relief here. Newcastle at last won their 1st game!! Owen scoring a goal. If they had lost i would surely be among the 1st calling for the head of Souness!! Great player he may have been....but great manager he isnt!! Tongue No doubt he turned round the fortunes of my long time favourite Rangers around up in Scotland.....but hey!! Its basically only Rangers & Celtic up there challenging for the scottich premiership!!
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #147 - 09/14/05 at 22:50:42
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I hate Borussia Mönchengladbach (not bad, Smyslov-Fan, you only missed the h) because of the UEFA-cup finals of 1975.
And I despise the Italian national team AND all Italian club teams since the invention of catenaccio, despite of Gullit, Rijkaard and Van Basten playing for AC Milan.
The Italian national team, Juventus, AC Milan, Inter Milan, etc etc losing against whoever makes my day.
If the finals is going to be Italia-Germany I will not watch next year. That is always anti-football!
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #146 - 09/14/05 at 17:24:09
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@Willempie, 

The only time I ever felt like rooting for Bayern Muenchen was when Man United beat them in the last two minutes of a game they'd dominated.  As for the other German teams, Hamburg was ok once (and that coincided with Kevin Keegan being on their side!), and I used to love Borrussia Moenchengladback (I'm sure I misspelled it), just for the sound of the name Grin and how well they played in the 1980s.

Italian teams still stink of dirty liras.  I know that's not fair, Cry but it's hard to watch AC Milan and not remember how they managed to get so many great players under one roof not so long ago.  (Kinda like Real Madrid today and Man United a few years ago!)
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #145 - 09/14/05 at 15:47:19
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Quote:
The Colorado Rapids (ever heard of them?) aren't even in the top half of the MLS over here.  The US national team looked like Landon Donovan and the mighty midgets against England's "B" team this Summer.  But Donovan is really dangerous.  So, the US has one great player, a couple of good goalies, and some beautiful pitches.  We also hosted the World Cup.


So you actually have a soccer league??  Shocked - I was under the impression it went bankrupt about 10 years ago...

Still, I must admit that the US can't be too bad, since you've already qualified for Germany next year by beating Mexico, which in turn looked impressive in the pre-worldchampionship tm this summer...
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #144 - 09/14/05 at 14:15:22
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Well at least your're not rooting for Real (hahaha this week) or Chel$ki. Those two teams make you even want to root for German or Italian teams in Europe.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #143 - 09/14/05 at 13:48:50
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Taljechin, 

Touche!

The Colorado Rapids (ever heard of them?) aren't even in the top half of the MLS over here.  The US national team looked like Landon Donovan and the mighty midgets against England's "B" team this Summer.  But Donovan is really dangerous.  So, the US has one great player, a couple of good goalies, and some beautiful pitches.  We also hosted the World Cup.

That's why I root for England, the land of me dear mum!  (And for Liverpool, even though half me mum's family roots for the Toffees.)
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #142 - 09/14/05 at 12:34:31
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Quote:
Let's see:  Last year, England had two teams facing each other in the semis of the European Cup, and one of those teams didn't even finish in the qualifying spot in its own league!


Well, I see you're still living in the past. It's a new season with new heroes now...

Quote:
I would be lying if I said I hate to point this out, but....  Where's Malmo in all this?


Ahh, a cheap shot from a guy in a glass house! - Does the US even have a soccer team except for the national one? Grin
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #141 - 09/14/05 at 11:30:18
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Quote:

I suspect that keeping track of the different clashes in the Champion's Cup etc should also give a good indication of which national league is the best. I'd suppose the French league might be a strong outsider ..., but personally I'd expect the Italian League, and especially Juventus, to win. - Provided we have some soccer fan with enough extra time to keep track of all the different results between clubs from: England-Italy-Spain-France-and perhaps Germany  Undecided


Let's see:  Last year, England had two teams facing each other in the semis of the European Cup, and one of those teams didn't even finish in the qualifying spot in its own league!  Both Liverpool and Chelsea have won their first games in group play this season, so clearly, England still has one of the elite leagues.  I would be lying if I said I hate to point this out, but....  Where's Malmo in all this? Shocked

BTW, One shocking result does not a season make.  Unless of course that's the only win you get.


  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #140 - 09/14/05 at 09:03:13
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Smyslov_Fan, do you still believe in Real Madrid after yesterdays disaster against Lyon?

Maybe you were right, with that idea of the best league being the one with the most swedish national players! As Rennes and thus the french league seemed a clear winner, and Lyon's thrashing Madrid back to Reality also seems a good indicator, don't it? Wink

I suspect that keeping track of the different clashes in the Champion's Cup etc should also give a good indication of which national league is the best. I'd suppose the French league might be a strong outsider considering the paragraph above, but personally I'd expect the Italian League, and especially Juventus, to win. - Provided we have some soccer fan with enough extra time to keep track of all the different results between clubs from: England-Italy-Spain-France-and perhaps Germany  Undecided
« Last Edit: 09/14/05 at 12:37:35 by TalJechin »  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #139 - 09/12/05 at 10:32:41
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Fair enough. As long as you understand the difference between a good midfielder & a playmaker. That's all that i'm trying to put forward. Smiley

Eg Bryan Robson & Graeme Souness were midfield giants but Jan Molby was a playmaker.

Good luck to you & your team!!
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #138 - 09/12/05 at 01:18:00
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In my defense....

Yes, asking midfielders to make plays may be a tall demand, but that's what they're there for.  They should be able to pass the ball around and find/create the open space for the attack.  I don't necessarily expect them to score lots of goals (at the high school level, btw), but I do expect them to control the ball.  If my midfielders can control the middle third of the pitch, we win.  It works, too!
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #137 - 09/11/05 at 15:52:54
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Playmakers have another feature: they make the team play better. A fine example is Ruud Gullit, who was out of shape in 1988, but still played a very important role.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #136 - 09/11/05 at 12:10:16
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Quote:
I expect my midfielders to be playmakers


That's a very tall demand isnt it? I think you would be lucky if you can even get 1! Also depending on how talented your players are as well.

Playmakers are a very special breed of footballers afterall (even in a moderate team). Best passers in the team, best technique, great creativity (to create goals), great tactical awareness & game reading ability & also be able to score a fair no. goals themselves. Oh Yes! A lot of fitness also since they are probably the busiest in the whole team - to pick up the ball from almost anywhere & to distribute it out for posession play or to start a counter attack etc.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #135 - 09/11/05 at 10:08:25
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@MNb, 

Good point on strategy.

At all:   

Wigan is ahead of Liverpool at this moment!  Ok, so Liverpool has played 3 games and Wigan has played 4 or 5.  Still, Go Liverpool and Wigan!
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #134 - 09/11/05 at 02:48:22
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In Dutch teams, when a defender brings up the ball, no midfielder will fill the open position. There will be a one to one defense. The idea is to create a majority on the midfield.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #133 - 09/10/05 at 18:11:15
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As a soccer coach here in Colorado, I expect my midfielders to be playmakers, but I also want to see the defenders bring up the ball (with the midfielders retreating to fill in the open position) occasionally.   I think if you follow any major football league, you will see defenders doing this quite often.  And yeah, I give credit for the idea to Cruyff and the Dutch.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #132 - 09/10/05 at 16:31:59
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"From observations over the years the playmaker is usually a midfielder."
It is true, that Beckenbauer was the first libero-playemaker, but the Dutch have a whole tradition: Epi Drost, Ruud Krol, Ronald Koeman, Danny Blind. There is a Dutch football term for it, which I can't translate:
de inschuivende libero.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #131 - 09/10/05 at 01:43:07
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This is a bit off-topic, but I thought it might interest some of you as much as it does me.  I saw George Weah play when he should have already retired.  But I swear I saw him playing for Cameroon.  What's going on here? 

???

Quote:
George Weah: Liberia's Player of the Season?
Under international guidance, Liberia has made much progress in normalisation since its civil war ended two years ago and is preparing to hold its first national elections in eight years on 11 October. * Former World Footballer of the Year George Weah has emerged as the leading candidate among a field of 22 candidates despite having no political experience. * A Weah victory would provide a national figurehead and undermine the influence of warlord-politicians but also leaves open the possibility of manipulation by more experienced politicians with unclear agendas.
[Jane's Foreign Report - first posted to http://frp.janes.com – 6 September 2005]

  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #130 - 09/10/05 at 00:38:13
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Brazil is a bit of an anomaly, their bestest player isnt necessarily the playmaker. In 1970 Pele was the best one around but the main orchestrater was Tostao.

Again in 1982, they REALLY had a dream midfield of Zico, Socrates, Falcao & Eder. Play was orchestrated by Socrates not Zico as one might expect.

Quote:
They have five or six players on the field at any one time who would be a leader for almost any other team in the world


Yes that's right. So talent rich they are that they can have more than 1 playmaker in the team at one time eg Brazil 2002. They had Rivaldo & they had the option to add in Juninho as well. If just one of them were Singaporean, Singapore would be the most obvious one man team around!

From observations over the years the playmaker is usually a midfielder. The anomaly would then be Beckenbauer who was a libero. But then again he started operations from midfield whenever he ventured forward but he was a classy midfielder all his life before taking up the libero position.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #129 - 09/09/05 at 18:43:46
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Woofwoof, 

If a team is limited in that way, then it has a good chance of losing at some point.  This is what makes the Brasilians so blooming amazing.  They have five or six players on the field at any one time who would be a leader for almost any other team in the world.  Yeah, Brasil has always had fantastic goal scorers, but their playmakers are what have made them the best in the world.   

Of course, Pele was so far ahead of everyone else in the world that when the English fouled him into submission in the 1966 semis, the Brasilians weren't able to recover.  One of the things the Germans did against Cruyff, apart from foul him, was to cut off his passing lanes to his teammates.  As dangerous as Cruyff was on the ball, he was made much less dangerous when he had to do it all himself.

(BTW, my least favorite teams are probably #1 Argentina, #2 Germany and #3 Portugal.  North/ United Korea is also way up there.  So when I compliment Germany, my head aches!)
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #128 - 09/09/05 at 18:29:29
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Its fairly typical of all teams to be so called a 'one man team' when there is a playmaker around; the playmaker has always been that one person who is heads & shoulders above the rest in terms of skill, tactical vision, game reading etc. So once he can stamp his authority on the game, he practically orchestrates the whole team. eg Platini, Maradona (esp so in 86), Scifo, Figo etc including Hoddle @ Spurs (my favorite English player)

Its a very common German tactic to snuff out playmakers. I watched a Euro cup final betn Bayern Munich & Porto back in the 80's - Bayern perpetually fouled Scifo. The 86 world cup final also showed the German's going after Maradona, but the Argies later switched tactics so instead of using him as a prime mover used him as a pawn to distract the Germans & let the other's exploit the Germans' distraction.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #127 - 09/09/05 at 15:31:06
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Woofwoof, 

I think you're right about it being Vogts.  I'll have to look it up, but the Dutch seemed to be just a one-person team, even with the Total Soccer concept that confused so many of their other opponents.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #126 - 09/09/05 at 12:28:05
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Quote:

...... the Orange team not able to create real chances.

Am I right to say that this happened because Vogts marked Cruyff so totally out of the game that the Oranje  lost their 'engine' & hence suffered a loss of 'edge' & ultimately their game direction?


  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #125 - 09/09/05 at 09:11:46
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One thing I have learnt from following the English national team is, never ever write off the Germans.  They are showing signs of promise after a period when they really were in the doldrums (not least when England exorcised a few demons by administering a 5-1 thrashing in Munich Grin ).  I would not bet against them winning next year.

And on top of that, I am sorely tempted to go to the bookmaker's and place a bet on Ballack scoring the goal that eliminates England (be it in open play or a penalty shoot-out).  Of course, that assumes that England qualify for the finals ...  Undecided

The Italians are also quietly shaping up into a decent unit and shouldn't be ignored on European soil.

But of course, after Greece winning Euro 2004 and plenty of surprise results in the 2002 World Cup, it may be that we are in for a shock next year, too.
  

If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #124 - 09/09/05 at 06:55:39
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I just wonder if Alumbrado's memories of 1996 are as good as his memories of the 1982 match at Wembley, with two goals by Jantje Peeters ...
The Orange team is not only one of the few to beat the Germans at home (East-Germany beat West-Germany in the opening match of 1974, goal by Jürgen Sparwasser), it also one of the few to beat the English at their home temple. I believe, Scotland managed to do the same once.
I clearly remember the infamous 1974 finals. I was on holiday in the Alsace and watched it with a German hotel guest. As a 12 year old boy, how I enjoyed the first couple of minutes, ultimate domination by the Dutch! And how I cursed Gerd Müller's goal! During the second half I slowly sank in despair, the Orange team not able to create real chances. With tears in my eyes, staring to the ground, I had to congradulate the German adult. Ah, those were the days.
Many years later I have reseen the match and now I have to admit, that on the whole the Germans in fact were better and deserved to win.
Last couple of years I have noticed, that the classical football countries are in trouble. Neither the Dutch, the Germans, the English nor the French play impressive lately. Will we see Argentina-Brasil in the finals next year?
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #123 - 09/09/05 at 05:06:07
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If it is any consolation, I was about the only person who thought we would win the penalty series, the rest (I was in the pub) was watching it in despair.
I think this was the only time together with 88, we didnt screw it up (or got screwed). 

Indeed a very nice goal by Zlatan (though one of his last Ajax goals was even more brilliant).
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #122 - 09/09/05 at 04:39:00
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Well, the dutch got lucky last time, in the euro ch  Cry

Btw, Sweden is very near to being qualified for Germany next year thanks to Zlatan's impossible goal in Budapest. As Croatia only managed 1-1 with Malta, we now lead the group and a win in the last round against Iceland should secure at least a 2nd place with the best goal score, and a win or draw in Croatia before that would ensure a ticket to Deutschland... Cheesy
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #121 - 09/09/05 at 04:16:45
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It must be said that both the Dutch and the English have a sorry tale to tell with regard to penalty shoot outs in major tournaments Sad
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #120 - 09/08/05 at 18:48:41
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Quote:
Willempie, Does the World Cup, 1974 have any meaning for you?

At least the English were able to beat the Germans in '66.

Wink

BTW, have the Dutch officially qualified already?


We're the only ones to beat the Germans on their home tournament. And no I am born in 76 and we took revenche in 88 Grin

No officially not yet, but with 4 points up to the Czechs and an away match against them and a home match against Macedonia it shouldnt pose a problem. Usually we only screw up such odds when playing in the final or on penalties Wink
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #119 - 09/08/05 at 12:08:35
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@Willempie- I have a suspicion that Alumbrado might be talking abt the England-Holland game in Euro 96.  England won 4-1.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #118 - 09/08/05 at 11:35:18
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Willempie, Does the World Cup, 1974 have any meaning for you?

At least the English were able to beat the Germans in '66.

Wink

BTW, have the Dutch officially qualified already?

  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #117 - 09/08/05 at 10:43:49
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You mean when you got kicked out by the Germans? Wink
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #116 - 09/08/05 at 10:39:05
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It is OK - I still have happy memories of Euro 96 ...
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #115 - 09/08/05 at 09:27:30
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No gloating please Mnb Grin
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #114 - 09/08/05 at 09:12:28
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Congratulations to David Healy.  Grin
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #113 - 09/08/05 at 03:20:54
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Was a nice match, deservedly won by the greens 8)
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #112 - 09/08/05 at 03:08:26
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I know what you mean Alumbrado, I know what you mean. Cry
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #111 - 09/08/05 at 02:15:07
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I do not want to discuss football this morning  Embarrassed
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #110 - 09/07/05 at 15:26:10
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Naturally!
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #109 - 09/07/05 at 05:56:11
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Accepted, on the condition that the return match will take place in the hot Surinamese sun.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #108 - 09/06/05 at 18:00:28
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I'm afraid I can't speak for most Canadians, because I did grow up playing soccer, but I also grew up in Vancouver, which is rather un-Canadian insofar as it has a very mild (albeit wet) climate.  We played year-round, and I've been horrified to discover--having recently moved to Ontario--that the season runs only from May to August or September.  It's hard to cultivate any real interest among children in so short a season.  I don't think Canadians mind cold bottoms, though I suspect that this might be an interesting example of the Scotch-Irish--rather than English and French--influence coming through.  In addition, remember that the English influence was typically upper class through military endowments (particularly in British Columbia), and cricket was a bigger game than soccer.  All these are rather sad explanations, mind you.  Hockey has become such a predominant sport among boys, though, that its popularity has probably drawn talented athletes to that sport.

And out of national pride, I feel constrained to challenge MNb to a game of outdoor chess sometime in January...  in Ottawa...
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #107 - 09/06/05 at 16:16:06
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The answer must be clear by now: Canadians are afraid of cold bottoms, while Icelanders, Norwegians, Swedes and Finnish are not.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #106 - 09/06/05 at 03:07:30
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Quote:
Taljechin, 

Have you ever tried to play soccer in two feet (or even as little as 50 cm, for that matter) of snow? Forget the fact that the ball stops within inches of being kicked, you'd keep falling on your bottom and the ground would be frozen.  Aint fun.  I think that's why curling is one of Canada's main national pasttimes, along with hockey of course.


Well, if we can play here in Sweden, surely the Canadians would be able to scare off most of the polar bears and get some games played during the summer! Wink
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #105 - 09/06/05 at 02:24:19
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Taljechin, 

Have you ever tried to play soccer in two feet (or even as little as 50 cm, for that matter) of snow? Forget the fact that the ball stops within inches of being kicked, you'd keep falling on your bottom and the ground would be frozen.  Aint fun.  I think that's why curling is one of Canada's main national pasttimes, along with hockey of course.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #104 - 09/06/05 at 02:09:49
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Quote:
Well, you're welcome to support whomever you like, and the Swedes typically play attractive hockey, and if you like yellow and blue, I suppose their jerseys are alright, but really!   Wink  (Actually, I am a fan of many Swedish players, and am hoping that the Sedin twins and Markus Naslund help the Vancouver Canucks win the Stanley Cup this year...)

Not to sound overly patriotic, but I quite like the Canadian jersey with the hockey player skating out of the maple leaf.  Sorry to hijack this thread, but Canadian football has been in the doldrums for a number of years...



Nice to hear that Swedish hockey is appreciated world wide! Cheesy - Strangely, this is the sport where we're the closest to the English - every year we think we're the obvious favourite to win, and then we lose in the quarter finals, again...

Btw, HgMan, how come soccer isn't bigger in Canada??? Is really the american influence bigger than the english+french or is there some other explanation?
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #103 - 09/06/05 at 01:37:25
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Thx, MNb.

Fassbinder isn't everyone's cup of tea.  Lola was indeed interesting, as was Veronika Voss.  But film is another tangent for another thread!  Smiley
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #102 - 09/05/05 at 23:07:21
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Almost. It's Die Ehe von Maria Braun. It's not Fassbinders best movie imo, I prefer Lola.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #101 - 09/05/05 at 22:14:00
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Well, 

Being a Coloradan who loves most things French (including the opening), I used to root for the Quebec Nordiques.  Then, to my utter amazement and joy, they moved to Denver and became the Colorado Avalanche!! Grin  Peter Forsberg is one of my all-time favorite players (along with Joe Sakic, yes, HgMan!), and hope that he finds some way to rejoin the Avs when the new NHL season starts.  I love the Swedish postage stamp of Forsberg, and root for Sweden against everyone but the two North American teams.   

Btw, I have to agree that Hungary deserved at least one World Championship.  That Germany game was a fluke.  If you're interested, the radio play-by-play of the game has a significant role in the Fassbinder film, The Marriage of Maria Braun ( The original is something like "Die ehre auf Maria Braun" but I don't speak German, so it's just a guess.)   

This thread has really taken off! Way cool!
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #100 - 09/05/05 at 17:01:48
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Wayne Gretzky, isn't that Ben Johnson's little brother?


Ouch!
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #99 - 09/05/05 at 15:15:00
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Wayne Gretzky, isn't that Ben Johnson's little brother?
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #98 - 09/05/05 at 13:28:24
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Well I am not allowed to support Canadian teams, since I have relatives in Seattle Grin
Problem here is that only the Wch and olympics get aired even the dutch competition gets next to no coverage. Well to be fair I played 6th level nationally and I can assure you that my hockey isnt better than my chess, so the competition isnt that good.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #97 - 09/05/05 at 12:49:33
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Well, you're welcome to support whomever you like, and the Swedes typically play attractive hockey, and if you like yellow and blue, I suppose their jerseys are alright, but really!   Wink  (Actually, I am a fan of many Swedish players, and am hoping that the Sedin twins and Markus Naslund help the Vancouver Canucks win the Stanley Cup this year...)

Not to sound overly patriotic, but I quite like the Canadian jersey with the hockey player skating out of the maple leaf.  Sorry to hijack this thread, but Canadian football has been in the doldrums for a number of years...

  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #96 - 09/05/05 at 10:46:56
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Oh I know, but that doesnt stop me from supporting the Swedes. They have nicer shirts and usually play forechecking Wink
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #95 - 09/05/05 at 10:39:38
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I must admit I usually only follow Swedes when they play ice-hockey, where they are my favourite team.


Hmph!

There's only one nation of hockey.  While talking about the best teams, the Edmonton Oilers of the 1980s were perhaps the most dominant club side in any sport that I have ever seen.  Wayne Gretzky deserves to be in any conversation of the best players of all time in any sport.

And any Canadian national team of the past twenty years would likely be at the top of any hockey list.  I don't see any real competition from other countries for the Olympics in Turin (if the professional players get to go).  And, yes, Sidney Crosby does look like the real thing...
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #94 - 09/05/05 at 10:01:03
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Would that be the French Platini team that was beaten 3-1 by England in the group stage of the 1982 World Cup in Spain? Grin  With Peter Shilton in goal, iirc ...  Shocked

Seriously, though, that was a very strong French team, as they subsequently showed at the 1984 European championship.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #93 - 09/05/05 at 04:27:56
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Btw, Sweden does have a lot of world champions in all kinds of sports, though one wouldn't expect it from a such a small population of just 8-9 millions. A recent example being the athletics W-Ch in Finland, where we had two golds and a bronze - and Holland reportedly took its first athletics medal ever with a population of 16 millions...

First gold on a WCh that's true, but we had the best female athlete of the last century: Fanny Blankers-Coen (she ruled supreme at the London olympics). She passed away last year.
I must admit I usually only follow Swedes when they play ice-hockey, where they are my favourite team.

BtW the best team not to become WCh should be either the 54 Hungary team (1 match lost in 4 years, the final), the 50 Brazil team (winning every game with aat least a 2 goal difference except their last) or the 78 Dutch team (Argentina bribed Peru amongst some other fishy stuff). Though maybe the french Platini team should be there as well.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #92 - 09/04/05 at 23:04:12
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Thanks for correcting me, and for proving that I hadn't lost all of my memory, Beetlejuice!  Yeah, I do remember the game!  I'm not your typical Coloradan (or Coloradoan, both are acceptable) in that I have never skied  Shocked even though I'm actually a native, I play chess, and I love both forms of football!

In fact, expect to see a new thread about American football in the very near future! Smiley  (Yes, I suppose it will be another poll! Grin)

BTW, the past tense of the verb to ski is just ugly.  It should be skiid or ski'd
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #91 - 09/04/05 at 22:45:00
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"That Brazil team would get my vote as the best team never to win the world cup."
Beg your pardon? The Orange team of 1974, no doubt about it! Also Hungary 1954, with Puskas. Pity that our German friends are not so active anymore, they ought to smile now  Undecided.

"Talking about obscure, but memorable matches"
De Graafschap-Feyenoord around 1975. Feyenoord was favourite of course, but De Graafschap after 45 minutes had a lead with 3-1. The match ended 5-7.
Very obscure and very memorable! I mean, how many of you guys (except Willempie) even know, that a Dutch team called De Graafschap plays the Dutch premier league? I do not dare to ask you in which town they play, let alone where it is situated!
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #90 - 09/04/05 at 17:05:41
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An obscure choice:  

Cameroon-Argentina! (not sure of the year, but I think it was '86(?)

Also, there was a great game between Denmark and Russia a few cups ago.  I think Denmark won.


I think Cameroon-Argentina was in 1990 when Argentina opened the World Cup as the defending champions from 1986 and lost the opening match by 1-0.

But I am really impressed by your mentioning of a Denmark-Russia match. Denmark has actually never played Russia - meaning the post-Soviet (post-1991) Russia. So the match you remember must have been the Denmark-Soviet match in 1985 ending 4-2. 

I was just one of several qualifier matches for the 1986 World Cup, but Danish football fans (at least those more than 25 years old) remember it as one of the all-time greatest matches in the history of the Danish national team. Both teams played wonderful attacking football, the Danes being a little better. And the game - played on June 5th, Danish Constitution Day - included six beautiful goals. Even Today the match is still referred to as simply "the Soviet match" between Danish football fans.

And I am impressed that this match is known even in Colorado!

Another thing is that Denmark played the Soviets ten times through history and lost the other nine, including the return match in Moscow later in 1985 - but we really don't remember that  Undecided

Talking about obscure, but memorable matches: What about English Premier League (oops, that name was introduced in the 90's...) match Man United - West Bromwich 3-5, played December 30th, 1978. Back in those days the Danish public TV broadcasted an English Premiership (oops again) match (almost) every Saturday. This was just one of them, but it was really great, and the eight goals were repeated numerous times in the following years, when they had some time to fill out.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #89 - 09/04/05 at 11:09:13
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Or, How about Brasil-Argentina (pick the game, and you're probably right).


I remember 1 such game in the 82 world cup which Brazil won 3-1 &  a young Maradona getting his marching orders somewhere in the 2nd half. Zico, Socrates, Falcao & Eder were like  Shocked

That Brazil team would get my vote as the best team never to win the world cup. My heart was shattered to smithereens after they lost to Italy with Paolo Rossi getting a hattrick & Zoff in top form.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #88 - 09/04/05 at 02:59:46
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What team did Agdestein play for?


The club seems to be Lyn (which means 'blitz' or 'quick' btw, most fitting for a chessplayer I s'pose!)

source: http://www.xs4all.nl/~timkr/chess2/agd_eng.htm
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #87 - 09/04/05 at 02:38:13
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@TalJechin: not that many Swedes became World Champion and won Olympic gold. So it is a shame, you do not know who Tommy Gustafsson is. Let me give you a hint: his sport is very popular in The Netherlands, less popular in Norway and hardly in other countries.


Aha, you meant Thomas Gustavsson the skater who took gold in Calgary 1988. - I thought you were speakin soccer players!

Btw, Sweden does have a lot of world champions in all kinds of sports, though one wouldn't expect it from a such a small population of just 8-9 millions. A recent example being the athletics W-Ch in Finland, where we had two golds and a bronze - and Holland reportedly took its first athletics medal ever with a population of 16 millions...
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #86 - 09/04/05 at 00:14:20
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An obscure choice:   

Cameroon-Argentina! (not sure of the year, but I think it was '86(?)


Also, there was a great game between Denmark and Russia a few cups ago.  I think Denmark won.

Or, How about Brasil-Argentina (pick the game, and you're probably right).

Italy-Germany in Italy was pretty interesting too.

Again, so many games!
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #85 - 09/03/05 at 17:39:24
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Don't forget Brazil-France from the 1986 World Cup--one of the greatest games I have ever seen!


Ya. I remember that one, The French defender fouled a Brazilian in the penalty area. The brazilian was rolling & wriggling all over the place, but when the ref blew for a penalty, immediately he stopped acting and raised his hands in triumph as if he scored a goal!! Alas! Zico missed the penalty. But hv to admit the French goalie was in his element that day.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #84 - 09/03/05 at 15:21:21
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Best match ever: that is easy.
France-Portugal, semi finals EU-Ch 1984.
France had the fantastic midfield Platini-Giresse-Tigana. I have forgotten the names of the Portuguese alas. But all six were far superior to say David Beckham.
The referee had an very easy day, as there were hardly faults. Superbe technique, beautiful goals and two teams who were about equal.
A match of unequalled level.

@TalJechin: not that many Swedes became World Champion and won Olympic gold. So it is a shame, you do not know who Tommy Gustafsson is. Let me give you a hint: his sport is very popular in The Netherlands, less popular in Norway and hardly in other countries.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #83 - 09/03/05 at 13:10:05
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Don't forget Brazil-France from the 1986 World Cup--one of the greatest games I have ever seen!
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #82 - 09/03/05 at 11:11:24
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best international games?? hmm...so many great ones to choose from:

My favourites would include  Brazil-Italy -1970 world cup final, Brazil-Italy - 1982 world cup, Brazil - Holland (cant remember which world cup year, Holland lost 3-2 winner scored by Brazil's Branco), Holland -Argentina (cant remember the yr again, but Bergkemp scored a superb winner), Portugal-Holland -Euro 2004, Holland's games during 74 World cup were also quite a joy to behold.(based on the highlights shown)

have to admit i'm pretty much a Holland, Portugal  & Brazil fan. They play free flow attractive attacking  football in their own ways.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #81 - 09/03/05 at 08:44:02
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What team did Agdestein play for?
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #80 - 09/03/05 at 02:38:56
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Finally, to comfort TalJechin with the lack of Swedish top football players: many Dutchies still remember Tommy Gustafsson. He certainly was absolute world class.


I've never heard of TG actually, but if the debaters here don't know about any more famous swedish soccerplayers you don't know much about soccer... Undecided 

E.g: in Italy they still talk about the Gre-No-Li attacking chain, Liedholm then went on and trained Roma for several decades. Best keepers, we'll no one has mentioned Rio-Kalle from the World Cup final in 1958 or Ronnie Hellström from 1974. Central defenders like Glenn Hysén and Patrik Andersson would have fit in any star team. 

Clinical attackers should also include Martin Dahlin, Kenneth Andersson and Tomas Brolin all from 94, we didn't get too many chances to score but these guys sure scored when there was a chance. Van Basten etc were certainly strong but did miss a lot of the chances they were given...

And that's just Sweden, so far no one seems to have mentioned for example the Laudrup Brothers from Denmark...

Soccerwise though, there's hardly any country that can match Brazil.  Actually, in comparison with Brazil, both England and Holland would be more famous for their soccer hooligans - who *really* are outstanding in the world! Grin
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #79 - 09/03/05 at 01:00:13
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Best goals....
 

There are so many!

Pele against Banks one-on-one in '70; Geoff Hurst's impossible goal in the '66 final. if it actually went in (or his second goal of that game); Maradona's miracle goal gets wiped off the records by his "hand of god" goal.  Just about any of Ronaldo's or Ronaldinho's international goals, gee, it'd be hard to chose.   Peter Lorimer once scored from midfield in a English league game.  Beckenbauer scored a great one against the Dutch, I think it was in '74.  and on and on....

I think the best goals are going to be so subjective that we won't even agree on the same ten best!

How about best international games of all time?  I'd rank that Germany-Nederlands game where they both were down to ten men early on as one of the best ever.  (Or how about that England-Nederlands game in the European Championship where England beat the Dutch by 6-1, but the ref disallowed one!  Just kidding, KIDDING!  Grin)
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #78 - 09/03/05 at 00:20:10
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"van Basten was the best striker"
I would rather have Gerd Müller or Romario in my all time favourite team. Van Basten was technically very skilled of course, but to win a match you need absolute killers - strikers with Torinstinkt. Müller and Romario were the absolute top, even if they were unvisible during 88 minutes.

"the Brits were slow to discover it."
I always had the impression, that the Liverpool of Kevin Keegan mastered the concept of total football pretty quick.

Now for something else. The most beautiful goal I have ever seen is Cruyff's against Brasil in 1974. If you do not believe, go and stand on the backline halfway the cornerflag and try to kick the ball in the goal. Afterwards imagine what it is, to do this with three defenders and a keeper in between.

Finally, to comfort TalJechin with the lack of Swedish top football players: many Dutchies still remember Tommy Gustafsson. He certainly was absolute world class.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #77 - 09/02/05 at 14:01:17
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Just as in chess, where you don't find any true hypermodern players but you find many people adopting the ideas of the hypermoderns, soccer teams across the world have adopted some of the ideas of total soccer.   

Any time you see a defender bring the ball up while a midfielder automatically moves back to defend the spot, it should remind you of Cruyff's influence on the game.  The Dutch had a revolutionary effect on all of soccer, but for some reason the Brits were slow to discover it.  The English teams even have sweepers and stoppers now where before they only had center fullbacks and center halfbacks.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #76 - 09/02/05 at 13:25:33
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No English team plays Total football, not even many dutch teams. Currently only AZ plays something similar. On the other hand many dutch teams have taken over the tactics, but with more rigid position play. Most foreign teams which play attractive like Barcelona or Arsenal only picked up parts (such as the quick position shift).

BtW it was 1988, I can still see the Van Basten goal in the last minute against Germany Grin
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #75 - 09/02/05 at 11:00:20
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If you saw the two Chelsea-Arsenal games, you were probably watching two games between the very finest clubs in Europe.  Remember, the European Cup was won by a team that couldn't even qualify for its own nation's European Cup slot last season, the league was that deep.


yep! Its really competitive now, with just about every team having its own foreign stars. My only grouse is that the majority of the 1st 11 is made up of foreigners! Not to say that  i'm against it or being racist, but being an English league i suppose i would more or less expect a majority of Brits in it. Oh well.... the effects of globilisation i suppose.

Quote:
The European style, made extremely popular by Ajax and Cruyff, didn't really make an impact on English soccer until recently.


You mean Total Football has come to England?? Shocked Wow!! thats a new one! That means we can be rest assured of free flow attractive attacking football in the EPL. I had always thought that Total Football started with Ajax but ended with Holland 1978, & only resurrected briefly when Rinus Michels again took charge of Holland for Euro 88 (or was it 84?)before dying out again! Not even Holland plays like that now. P'haps our Dutchies in the forum can verify this. Correct me if i'm wrong but i had always thought that Total Football was a Dutch phenomena & unique only to the Dutch just as Catenaccio was unique only to the Italians ( The Germans of old also played something similar to that i believe, but more efficiently & almost machine like) .
Quote:
Beckham has the uncanny ability to pick out a player and land the ball at his feet from almost anywhere


That sure sounds like the stuff which made Hoddle so famous. Hmmm....that means Becks is more talented than I thought!! I really loved watching Hoddle's 40m passes which found Tony Galvin on the wing or those long raking balls into space where it would start a swift  counter attack, or that 1 long pass out to Crooks which not only landed at his feet but came to a stop due to applied backspin on the ball. He really did a lot of awesome stuff on the pitch.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #74 - 09/02/05 at 09:49:45
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If you saw the two Chelsea-Arsenal games, you were probably watching two games between the very finest clubs in Europe.  Remember, the European Cup was won by a team that couldn't even qualify for its own nation's European Cup slot last season, the league was that deep.

As much as I love Liverpool, their rather simplistic kick-and-run strategy was too much for CSKA Moscow. I would rather have seen the Reds beat Moscow by breaking down the defense with incisive short passing and runs a la John Barnes in the 1990s, but Moscow's packed and talented defense didn't allow for that.  Liverpool's intricate passing that I loved so much in the past has been superceded by such teams as Chelsea, Arsenal (Thierry Henry alone is amazing), and even Manchester United (I should wash my keyboard with soap after typing that).

When I was talking about Liverpool's rather porous defense, I was thinking only of the period from 1970-73 when I was in England to watch them.  Sure, Tommy Smith (their captain before Hughes) was great, but the rest of the defense was pretty weak.  At the time, they played three defenders and 5(!) forwards.  The European style, made extremely popular by Ajax and Cruyff, didn't really make an impact on English soccer until recently.   

Odds and ends:
The persistent belief that England still relies on the long ball is no longer true.   

Beckham has the uncanny ability to pick out a player and land the ball at his feet from almost anywhere, and he's matured immensely since his truly ugly foul that earned him the Red Card against Argentina.  He now deservedly wears the captain's cap.  (I still can't forgive him for being a Manc, but there you have it! Wink )
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #73 - 09/02/05 at 03:47:42
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I still think The Premier Leauge is better than Serie A.


Serie A & La Liga are actually more glamorous than the EPL given the biggest stars all play there .... no doubt lured by huge money involved. but the EPL is somewhat more exciting to watch probably due to faster pace, more physical action etc.

I'm not so sure about which league is better, but all i can say that as long as English teams try to maintain the traditional Engish game of kick & run, they are not going anywhere. Liverpool under Shankley were among the very few English teams who got it right... to play a quick passing game, that's why they were so successful.

Now with the very high influx of foreign coaches & players the style of the english game has indeed turned somewhat continental. While all this helps in developing better quality football from all teams it does also mean that youngsters & locals will be starved out of the games by the star imports esp those with high egos who insist on playing all the time despite being off form. which again will not do much good as far as local players are concerned. In the long run this will affect the National team.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #72 - 09/01/05 at 12:46:45
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Taljechin, 

Thanks for the info about Rennes, I'm going to have to watch more than just he PSG-Lyons matches this year!   

My poorly worded sentence got in the way of my meaning about Barcelona.  I meant that the league's depth drops off after the top two teams.  I like Barca.  But Alumbrado pointed out that R. Betis and Villareal are pretty darned good teams too.

I still think The Premier Leauge is better than Serie A.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #71 - 09/01/05 at 12:34:23
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We're drifting well off course, but that seems like more fun.

Van Basten was very good, but he wasn't anywhere as clinical a finisher as someone like Lineker, who was uncanny.  Or Klinsmann, who probably got a bad reputation for flopping, but he was probably the most effective striker I ever saw.  He had a real nose for goal, but also did so many other things on the pitch.

Touching on Slates's good points and money not necessarily producing good football--which is different from good players--I've long thought that the French league produced some of the most attractive games...
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #70 - 09/01/05 at 12:26:30
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Quote:

Before you write to disagree, compile a list of Sweden's national team members and see which leagues most play in (outside of Sweden).  I haven't done this myself, but I'm betting that more play for English teams than other nation including Germany.


I hope you're not mixing up Sweden with Switserland! Wink

I'm not sure where every player in the national team belongs at the moment, but right now Rennes in France have 3 players (they've just bought Edman from some english team, plus goalie Isaksson and Kim Källström) and there's probably some more swedes in France the Farnerud brothers (though I'm not sure they're in the starting national eleven...), 

Ajax used to have Zlatan and now have Rosenberg (both Malmö FF originally - and the explanation why MFF suck in international play, always selling out the few stars they produce too soon.) Allbäck and Wilhelmsson also played for some Dutch teams, but at the moment I dunno where they're at...

In the premier there's Fredrik Ljungberg and Olof Mellberg and some other, lesser knowns, but many of the national team seem to be leaving England, Anders Svensson went home to play for Elfsborg and Edman went to Rennes as mentioned - IMO he's the best and most creative left defender we've had for years, but obviously his english team wouldn't let him play. - Which reminds me of Tomas Brolin the closest we've had to a Swedish Maradona/Pelé (he was the main reason for our bronze in '94 for example) but his english team wouldn't even let him play....

Quote:

It's been a while since the Italian League was considered the elite league.  Of course they still have elite teams, but there's been a mass exodus from there to the other three great leagues of Europe, Spain, the Bundesliga and the Premier League.


You seem to confuse a fat wallet with actual playing strength. The level of play in Italy is surely not inferior to England's, and more than one team has a realistic chance of winning the italian series... 

Quote:

Having said that, Spain is notorious for having two, and occasionally three great teams.  Real Madrid is of course the royal team of Spain, and Barcelona is fun, but the depth just isn't there.


Real Madrid must be the most over rated team ever! But they're a great example that you can't make a team from only stars... 

- For 'lacking depth' Barcelona is sure doin alright as they won la Liga last time! Grin
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #69 - 09/01/05 at 12:23:14
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No, I really do think Shilton was better than most of the others who have been mentioned (I offer no opinion about those whom I have not seen play such as Yashin).


after the 82 world cup, there was quite a hot debate about who was the best goalie in the world, the hottest two  were Cameroon's Nkono & Russia's Dasaev. Shilton was not  even mentioned as a possible candidate. Arconada was considered as one of the world's best but sadly he had a disastrous world cup outing. But it cant be denied that Schmeical was the worls's best in recent times.

Quote:
Equally I would not seek to contend that, say, Alan Shearer or Gary Lineker were even in the same league as Marco van Basten, or to compare Paul Gascoigne and David Beckham to Johann Cruyff.


And Glenn Hoddle was definitely superior to both Gazza & Beckham. Also never petulent unlike the both of them hv shown in the past.
Grin
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #68 - 09/01/05 at 12:07:09
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  At the time, Liverpool's defense was hardly world class


Not world class?? Shocked But they had Phil Thompson, Tommy Smith & Phil Neal during much of the 70's. All of them internationals if im not wrong. Towards the late 70's there was Neal & Alan Kennedy at fullbacks, Hansen & Thompson at centre back. Mark Lawrensen partnered Hansen after Thompson left. I thought they were legendary. Dont forget that that team of defenders + Clemence in goal let in 16 goals all season in 78/79 season.

For all of Clemence's brilliance, he would be completely helpless if he did not have a solid back 4 covering for him at the same time. Spurs' defence wasnt too solid (in fact they were probably too attack inclined to defend apart from chronic team nconsistancies) so Clem let in far more goals there, despite putting up consistantly good performances.

  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #67 - 09/01/05 at 09:20:34
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@Alumbrado, 

After Villareal beat the Toffees (Everton), perhaps I should concede that Spain is better.   

NAAAAAAAAAAGHHHHHHHH!   8)
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #66 - 09/01/05 at 09:15:18
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Besides, some chauvinism could be expected when discussing the *English Premier* - for one thing isn't the Italian & Spanish leagues considered superior leagues?

I think it has to do with exposure. For example here in Holland we have had the BBC with Match of the Day and the likes for decades. Never had that with the Spanish and Italian leagues, those became only interesting when dutch players went there. German league has never been popular here for other reasons.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #65 - 09/01/05 at 09:04:06
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I don't think the Bundesliga is considered to be particularly strong these days.

I would say Spain probably has the best league (at least the top division) - when the draws are made for the Champions League and the UEFA Cup, nobody wants to get the Spanish sides, as even 'minor' times like Real Betis and Villareal can cause difficulties, let alone the 'big boys' of Barca and Madrid.

After that I would say there is not much to choose between England and Italy.

As for TJ's question - I was using Dutch examples mainly for MNb's benefit - although I do happen to think that van Basten was the best striker I have ever seen.  I could equally have made comparisons with various Brazilians, Frenchmen, Italians, Spaniards, and even (grudgingly!) Germans and Argentinians, you name it!
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #64 - 09/01/05 at 07:34:47
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Taljechin, 

It's been a while since the Italian League was considered the elite league.  Of course they still have elite teams, but there's been a mass exodus from there to the other three great leagues of Europe, Spain, the Bundesliga and the Premier League.

Having said that, Spain is notorious for having two, and occasionally three great teams.  Real Madrid is of course the royal team of Spain, and Barcelona is fun, but the depth just isn't there.

England has recently (in the last 5 years or so) become the deepest and best league in the world.  I say this with a bit of a bias, but I'm stuck over here in the US watching what soccer I can and have had a chance to compare the various leagues.   

Before you write to disagree, compile a list of Sweden's national team members and see which leagues most play in (outside of Sweden).  I haven't done this myself, but I'm betting that more play for English teams than other nation including Germany.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #63 - 09/01/05 at 04:35:25
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Why would any of the best soccer players at any position necessarily be either Dutch or English?

I entirely agree, why would they be English Grin

Btw how many players did Jol buy now all in all? It looks like he stole someone's creditcard
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #62 - 09/01/05 at 04:19:20
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Alumbrado is a bloody English chauvinist (only when it comes to football, not chess).


Well, there seems to be a few Dutch chauvinists here too! Wink

Why would any of the best soccer players at any position necessarily be either Dutch or English? Every soccer playing country in the world has produced some great players which gives thousands to choose from, so any choice of who was the bestest player would be limited by e.g. one's nationality and time of birth etc etc...

Besides, some chauvinism could be expected when discussing the *English Premier* - for one thing isn't the Italian & Spanish leagues considered superior leagues?
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #61 - 09/01/05 at 03:28:06
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Alumbrado is a bloody English chauvinist (only when it comes to football, not chess).


No, I really do think Shilton was better than most of the others who have been mentioned (I offer no opinion about those whom I have not seen play such as Yashin).

Equally I would not seek to contend that, say, Alan Shearer or Gary Lineker were even in the same league as Marco van Basten, or to compare Paul Gascoigne and David Beckham to Johann Cruyff.

Credit where credit's due.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #60 - 09/01/05 at 03:05:59
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I think it was Bergkamp. But anyway Ven der Sar usually has 1-3 such assists every season (one of our latest matches saw one of our center forwards missing such a golden opportunity).

I do think you're a bit harsh on Alumbrado. After all it was with Shilton that England missed some of their qualifictions (a perfect "save" against Poland) and he figures in some of the best moments in football. The rush of Maradonna against England in '86 and the hattrick of Van Basten in '88 spring to mind Wink
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #59 - 08/31/05 at 22:57:45
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"If I was to pick two goalies for my all-everything soccer team, I would pick Chilavert and Banks."
I would pick Van der Sar and Smeichel. Alumbrado is a bloody English chauvinist (only when it comes to football, not chess). Maybe Willempie can refresh my memory: ECh match against Switzerland. Jordi Cruijff made one goal, but who was the other? The pass came from .... Van der Sar. Ever seen Shilton doing something like that?

I agree in general with Slates. About the same has happened in The Netherlands.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #58 - 08/31/05 at 09:00:34
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I wasn't really referring to the influx of non-homegrown talent regarding my comment about Sky, rather the fact that the amount of money pumped into the game seems to have changed the way players actually play, i.e they don't seem to actually enjoy themselves any more, and have become increasingly driven by greed alone, and not a love of the game or loyalty to clubs, etc.  Plus it's also getting more and more expensive to be a viewing fan in this country, as subscription prices rise constantly, plus you then have the pay-per-view games as well.....I used to subscribe to Sky about a decade ago, and had a few years of enjoyment from it, but despite the coverage being much better than BBC and ITV and despite the attraction of overseas talent (which in turn increased the level of skill in the league) I feel that money has become the deciding factor in too many areas of the game, and many of the smaller clubs are feeling this acutely whilst those at the top are simply getting richer.  As I mentioned, I'm not an avid viewer or fan these days, and that means I'm unable to provide a solid argument in support of my comment, but my feeling remains, even if I can't fully substantiate it.  Maybe there's also something wrong for those parents who can't afford to pay for Sky for their football-mad kids to watch their heroes, or can't afford every new football strip that appears, season in, season out.  I guess this could turn into a whinge about consumerism if I carry on, so it's time to quit, and allow the thread to return to something more upbeat, ie, who WILL win the Premiership this season?  Beats me.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #57 - 08/30/05 at 16:27:38
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If I was to pick two goalies for my all-everything soccer team, I would pick Chilavert and Banks.  Pele considered Banks the best goalie he had ever seen.  My condolences to the Dutch writers here.   Tongue
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #56 - 08/30/05 at 15:49:30
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Well, speak for yourself.  I was being quite serious when I said that Oxford United would come out of nowhere and win the FA Cup...
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #55 - 08/30/05 at 12:01:03
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It is becoming increasingly difficult to take this thread seriously ...


Well, I hope we aren't taking any of this too seriously!  I mean, I started the entire thread by declaring emphatically that my favorite team will win the Premiership this season. We're all football fanatics in this thread, but we aren't serious.  Seriously! 8)
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #54 - 08/30/05 at 10:35:31
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Grobbelaar was a lot of fun to watch (a former Vancouver Whitecap along with Peter Beardsley) as was Neville Southall.  Throw Pat Bonner onto the list (he was at Celtic), and Shilton was barely in the top five during the 1980s.

It is becoming increasingly difficult to take this thread seriously ... I mean, nobody's even mentioned John Burridge yet ...
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #53 - 08/30/05 at 10:25:21
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And Zoff really was in a class all his own.  Yashin comes close, but I suspect I'd have Zoff in my all-time XI.   

Hmmm...  Now that would make an interesting discussion...
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #52 - 08/30/05 at 10:23:05
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Actually, not to take anything away from England's international players--I think Lampard, Terry, and Gerrard are absolutely world class (again, a shame for England that Lampard and Gerrard effectively play the same position)--but as good as England looks, they're not especially deep.  Sven Goran Eriksson has a relatively easy job picking his starting XI.  There are some obvious choices, and after that...

Wayne Rooney is fun to watch because he's strong as an ox and fearless.  He runs at people, which--having played sweeper near the professional level--is positively terrifying and more effective than you might think if the player is big, strong, and coming fast.  I'm sure it will provoke tons of contempt, but Owen has never impressed me that much.  He's very fast and a decent finisher (nice qualities, rarely combined), but he can look pretty pedestrian if you limit his space.  He's not strong enough to battle the way Rooney does.  And I've never been a Beckham fan.  Take away the bad press (and the Mars bars) and Paul Gascoigne was twice the player.  Beckham is very talented, but I must admit I never saw more than flashes of why he's one of the most famous players on the planet (must be the looks...).

Grobbelaar was a lot of fun to watch (a former Vancouver Whitecap along with Peter Beardsley) as was Neville Southall.  Throw Pat Bonner onto the list (he was at Celtic), and Shilton was barely in the top five during the 1980s.  I liked Clemence, too.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #51 - 08/30/05 at 09:31:23
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Alumbrado, 

I think slates is referring to the influx of non-British talent into the best league in football.  Let's see, Liverpool won the Euro Cup, Chelsea was knocked out in the semis by... Liverpool.  Beckham is one of the recognisable names in all of football, even rivalling the great Brazilians.  Steven Gerrard was named Europe's footballer of the year, and England routinely has three or more teams listed in the world's top ten clubs (check ESPN).   

Yeah, English soccer is terrible.  Wayne Rooney, Michael Owen, and all these teenagers are just getting starved out of being able to play top-flight soccer.  While I personally detest anything remotely related to Manc U, I can't blame Sky TV for a problem that doesn't exist.

Ok, England actually needs to make some noise and win a World Cup again, but isn't England closer to doing that than at almost any time since 1966?
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #50 - 08/30/05 at 09:05:27
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In my opinion Sky killed English football

I don't understand that.  Sky brought more money into the game and revolutionised the way it was covered on TV.  The only reason I worry about the cricket is that Channel 4 have done such an excellent job with it (although they still have an annoying habit of combining it with horse-racing coverage) that I am not sure how Sky can make it any better.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #49 - 08/30/05 at 08:18:50
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I have to agree with alumbrado and say that Schmeichel was the best keeper I ever saw. But as a boy I was a Liverpool fan and despite my bias towards Ray Clemence, who was undoubtedly superb, I always had a sneaking suspicion that Shilton was the better of the two.  Just seemed more solid.
Still, those halcyon days of the 70s and 80s are but nostalgia now, and these days I don't get much fun from watching the Premiership. In my opinion Sky killed English football.  And now it's going to do the same thing to cricket.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #48 - 08/30/05 at 06:17:57
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Well, I never saw Banks or Yashin play, but I would pick Shilts ahead of Zoff or Maier.  Just a matter of opinion I guess.  incidentally I think Schmeichel was better than all of them - the best keeper I have seen.

I got some tapes from those old days (1966 final is recoloured Smiley), quite nice to watch.
Schmeichel is indeed also a very good one, though my absolute personal favourite keeper (not qualitywise) is Grobbelaer. The minute he stopped playing for Liverpool they became boring.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #47 - 08/30/05 at 05:57:08
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Well, I never saw Banks or Yashin play, but I would pick Shilts ahead of Zoff or Maier.  Just a matter of opinion I guess.  incidentally I think Schmeichel was better than all of them - the best keeper I have seen.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #46 - 08/30/05 at 05:21:25
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All this is very amusing.  Sadly the standards of English goalkeeping have declined alarmingly (two words suffice to demonstrate this: David James) but to suggest that people like Arconada and van Breukelen were as good as Shilton and Clemence in their prime is laughable.

Yep I see Shilton keeping a clean sheet in two major finals (europa cup 1 and euro cup) in the same year, with a penalty included Roll Eyes
Shilton was a good goalie, but not a super one. Ie no person from outside the UK, would list him with say Banks, Zoff, Maier or Yashin.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #45 - 08/30/05 at 04:09:20
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Well, 

I've already said that I'm a Liverpool fan, but....

Ray Clemence was amazing.  I loved his penalty-stopping technique.  It should never have worked except for his great athleticism and intelligence.

He would stand dramatically to left of center.  This left a wide open goal to shoot at, except that Clemence would get to the ball most of the time it was shot on the long side!  If it was shot on the short side, Clemence would either be able to reach out and save it or it would score.  But almost everyone tried to prove that Clemence was an idiot not to stand in the center!   

Ok, so maybe I wouldn't coach my own goalies to do that.... then again....  Wink

I always thought that Clemence was better than Shilton, but that may have been my bias.  Clemence was certainly more fun to watch.  At the time, Liverpool's defense was hardly world class, but we had great midfielders and goal scorers.  Clemence was kept very busy and looked brilliant doing it!  Certainly Clemence belongs in the pantheon of great goalkeepers.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #44 - 08/30/05 at 03:07:38
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All this is very amusing.  Sadly the standards of English goalkeeping have declined alarmingly (two words suffice to demonstrate this: David James) but to suggest that people like Arconada and van Breukelen were as good as Shilton and Clemence in their prime is laughable.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #43 - 08/29/05 at 22:17:28
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No. I cannot help thinking, that with either Van Beveren or Schrijvers in the goal the Orange team would have beaten West-Germany.
Cruijff more or less forced Michels to chose Jongbloed, because Van Beveren and Schrijvers at that time played for provincial teams: FC Twente and PSV (in 1974 not that important yet). As Cruijff was from Amsterdam, he looked down on them. Jongbloed played for another Amsterdam club, which does not exist anymore.
For about the same reasons the fantastic midfield Van der Kuylen from PSV had to stay home. Good luck that there were others equally good.
BTW there must be a reason, that so many English clubs prefer Dutch goalies to local ones.
Thanks for the website.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #42 - 08/29/05 at 10:57:23
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And Peter Shilton was not as good as Hans van Breukelen.
Smyslov_Fan, isn't this an idea for another poll? The best keepers of all time? Without much effort I can mention five Dutchies who should be on the list!


Does Jongbloed make your list??

There's a website dedicated to the dutch 1974 team if you are interested. http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #41 - 08/29/05 at 10:46:20
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MNb,

Before you go getting too patriotic, I should point out that Germany has had two or three all-time great keepers, Russia had one, Paraguay, Uruguay, France, Italy, Argentina and Spain also have had fantastic goalies.  Oh yeah, so has England.  Mexico may have a good keeper now, but anyone who selects Campos as a great keeper never played the position! The list would tell more about who remembers the most goalies rather than how good they were.  After all, we're only chess players here! 8)


Lets see if i can fill in the gaps here......hmmmm Germany to my mind has only 1 legend ie Maier. I dont think Schumacher was too impressive during his outings. Probably the only thing most of the world remembers him by was his HUGE foul on that French player (Baptiston or something like that). Probably only Kahn can add to the list of German goalie legends.

Russia had Yashin and Dasaev, Italy had Zoff, Spain has Arconada, Argies had Fillol but i dont remember too many heroics from him. Paraguay had Chilavert. I think Northern Ireland's Pat Jennings should also be considered a legend too.

On England, they had Banks. The thing i dont quite understand was why was Shilts preferred over Clemence for England?? I always thought Clem was the better player. ??? Definitely more class. Ya I think i have to agree with the others on the pt on Shilt's longevity due to lack of talent in the goalie dept cos the only one who could rival him was Clem, & when Clem finally retired from the international scene who else were there?? It was somewhat diffeerent in the 70's where there were Jimmy Rimmer, Phil Parkes & Joe Corrigan playing well too....but still very much betn Clem & Shilts though.

Coming to Van Breukelan & Shilts, I do have to go quite frankly with Van Breukelan. Definitely more talented & classy. I do remember seeing Van Breukelan in action for Forest & thought he was pretty good. His performances in the Euro Nations Championships was also outstanding. For someone in his mid thirties at that time, that was quite impressive.

I would like to thank Smyslov for bringing up the trivia on the word peruse. Looks I had the meaning all wrong. I  had always thought that the word perusal whose root word is peruse always referred to something that one had "use" for.  eg Pls find the attached for your records & perusal   Grin  hahahaha........
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #40 - 08/29/05 at 07:53:15
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Didn't Van Breukelen also play in England for awhile with Nottingham Forest?  Maybe he's responsible for the number of international goalkeepers in English football (which explain why English internationals--Shilton, Wood, Seaman, etc.--have been solid but hardly world class)...
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #39 - 08/29/05 at 07:49:56
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I must admit that I'm with MNb on this one.  Shilton's international career was certainly the more impressive, but I must admit I thought that Shilton's longevity reflected the sad state of English goalkeeping more than his own brilliance.  Though for a shorter period of time, Van Breukelen was the superior stopper--far more talented.  (cue: howls of derision).

Now that I think of it, though, there does seem to be a shortage of good goalkeeping these days.  I remember the heroics of the Belgian keeper, Jean-Marie Pfaff in the 1986 World Cup; Belgium allowed a lot of goals in that tournament--4 each against Russia and France if memory serves--but Pfaff was remarkable (and that was my look at Enzo Scifo, who might go down as the most underrated player in world history--simply amazingly talented).  Apart from an embarrassing hiccup during the 2002 World Cup final, Oliver Kahn is probably as good as it gets at the moment.  That said, I've not seen anyone who could hold a candle to Dino Zoff...
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #38 - 08/29/05 at 07:44:06
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Shilton's career is only legendary due to lack of competition. Since Gordon Banks there has been no British keeper who has come near that level.

So while Van Breukelen has never been a favourite of mine (wrong club) he is clearly a (top)notch or 2 above Shilton. Or to put in a different way, Shilton wouldnt have made the dutch team.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #37 - 08/28/05 at 23:16:40
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Alumbrado, 

The jungles of South America seem to have fried our friend's brain a bit. He's deluded into thinking one or two good outings can match the legendary career of one of England's most solid goalies.  Sure, Shilton wasn't flashy, but I prefer my goalies to always be at the right place at the right time rather than be jumping all over the place.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #36 - 08/28/05 at 22:34:52
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Were was Shilton in the summer of 1988? Who played the finals there and helped his national team to win the title again? Not to mention that Eindhoven team winning the European title.
Comparing Shilton with Van Breukelen is indeed like comparing Fowler with Kempes.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #35 - 08/28/05 at 21:17:02
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While it is touching that everyone is so interested in English football, I do have to take issue with the notion that Hans van Breukelen can even be mentioned in the same breath as Peter Shilton.  It is like comparing Robbie Fowler with Mario Kempes ...
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #34 - 08/28/05 at 20:00:17
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Oh, and Beetlejuice, 

'71 was when Arsenal beat Liverpool in the FA Cup, not Leeds.  I can show you the scars on my heart from that game.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #33 - 08/28/05 at 19:56:03
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@Beetlejuice, 

Thanks for the websites!  I know the web can find almost any info in the world, I'm just constantly amazed at what that means!  I guess I don't have to remember anything at all if I can type a google query about it.  Colin Boulton (23 'clean slates" in one season, wow!) made spectacular saves, I remember during the '71-72 season (I know it was that season because I just read about it) Derby County had some goalkeeping duels with Man City, Man United, Arsenal, and Liverpool.  The highlights reels on Match of the Day are better in my memory than almost any season since then!  (Memory kinda works that way though.)

I'm gonna go peruse some of the other sites later.

Trivia:  I love the word peruse because it means exactly the opposite of what most people think it means!  It means "to study in depth", not "to scan or glance at".
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #32 - 08/28/05 at 19:49:22
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MNb,

Before you go getting too patriotic, I should point out that Germany has had two or three all-time great keepers, Russia had one, Paraguay, Uruguay, France, Italy, Argentina and Spain also have had fantastic goalies.  Oh yeah, so has England.  Mexico may have a good keeper now, but anyone who selects Campos as a great keeper never played the position! The list would tell more about who remembers the most goalies rather than how good they were.  After all, we're only chess players here! 8)  
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #31 - 08/28/05 at 17:40:15
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And Peter Shilton was not as good as Hans van Breukelen.
Smyslov_Fan, isn't this an idea for another poll? The best keepers of all time? Without much effort I can mention five Dutchies who should be on the list!
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #30 - 08/28/05 at 17:27:24
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@Smyslov_fan

Well, I am not pretending I remember eveyrthing, so when I claimed that Leeds-Sunderland 0-1 was in 1973, I was quoting the www.thefa.com link above. And acording to that, Arsenal-Leeds 2-1 in extra time (fantastic shot by Charlie George) was in 1971. BTW, before anyone corrects me: Leeds winning The Double in 1972 as the second team was rubbish from my side. I was thinking of Arsenal in 1971.

I am not sure about the Derby County goalkeeper of those days, but after some googling I think it must be Colin Boulton, see this link:

http://www.derbycounty-mad.co.uk/news/loadroll.asp?cid=ED31&id=55196

The legendary Peter Shilton has also played for Derby, but that was in 1987-1991 according to:

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/bob.dunning/shilton.htm
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #29 - 08/28/05 at 15:49:10
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Certainly not as good as Jan van Beveren and Piet Schrijvers.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #28 - 08/28/05 at 14:10:38
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Beetlejuice, 

Of course Lorimer was Scottish.  I don't know why I typed in "Welsh" except perhaps that I was thinking of the upcoming game in Cardiff.

1973, eh?  Yeah, I remember Arsenal winning 2-1 against Liverpool in extra time (I think all the goals were scored in extra time, too) and Leeds winning the double.  Uggh.  I was living in Yorkshire (Whitby) when all this was going on.

All this makes me want to go back and see if I can't find some of the old scores!

Do you remember who that Derby County keeper was who was so good back then?
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #27 - 08/28/05 at 12:43:45
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Welsh international, Peter Lorimer, could score from almost anywhere and had a shot clocked at over 120 miles an hour, yet it was our humble Sunderland lads that won 1-0!  I think that was in 1972, but it may have been '71.


Oh, this certainly brings up old memories. I was also a schoolboy back in those good old days, when I and my class mates closely followed especially Leeds United, Arsenal and Tottenham Hotspurs (I was the one to support Tottenham...).

So I have to correct a few things:

Peter Lorimer was not Welsh, he was Scottish, and he played on the Scottish national team together with players as his Leeds team mate Billy Bremner (with a parallel carrier as a great rock musician). His (Lorimer's) autobiograpy is named Peter Lorimer: Leeds and Scotland Hero  

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1840186127/qid=1125249669/sr=1-1/ref=sr...

and the fatal 0-1 FA Cup Final against Sunderland was in '73, but Leeds fans probably better remembers the '72 final: 1-0 against Arsenal (by a great head shot by Alan Clarke late in the match), bringing "The Double" to Leeds, which was only the second time a team had won The Double (as a Tottenham supporter I have to add that Tottenham were the first in '61).

http://www.thefa.com/TheFACup/TheFACup/History/Postings/2003/11/FACupStatistics....
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #26 - 08/28/05 at 08:54:39
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Wigan Wins!

Wigan beat Sunderland Saturday, 1-0.  It's only a matter of time before they challenge Chelsea for number 1!  Grin

Okay, so Sunderland doesn't look capable of beating Our Sisters of the Poor, let alone Premiership teams.  But, I do remember when I was a kid in England an F.A. Cup final between Sunderland (then a Division II or III team) and Leeds (one of the best teams in England at the time).  Welsh international, Peter Lorimer, could score from almost anywhere and had a shot clocked at over 120 miles an hour, yet it was our humble Sunderland lads that won 1-0!  I think that was in 1972, but it may have been '71.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #25 - 08/26/05 at 18:34:41
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HgMan, 

That's the 64 cent question.  I think that the Reds have pretty much shown that we can survive without a world class central defender (a good second stringer would be nice) but we can't rely on Cisse, much less Morientes to provide enough goals.  We've only scored two goals in the last four regulation games.  (Two goals in extra time today were nice!)   

Now that we've traded Baros and Newcastle has picked up a striker, Owen has only one place to go, and Madrid will lower its asking price a bit.  (17M Pounds for sale after a year of sitting on the bench @ 8M Pounds transfer fee from L'Pool should suggest that Madrid is asking too much.)
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #24 - 08/26/05 at 18:18:17
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I thought that Benitez had made it rather clear that he wasn't interested in signing Owen.  Owen seems to have his heart set on returning, but does Liverpool really need another striker?
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #23 - 08/26/05 at 17:35:19
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Liverpool wins the Super Cup!!!

Okay, it's not the most important trophy in Europe, but hey, it's a win against a quality side!   

Now, let's see.  Liverpool is still in the Champions' League (with a difficult draw in group play), obviously one of the favorites in the Premiership, and candidates for other trophies such as the F.A.  We're also looking to sign Michael Owen who is even better than Cisse, who had a great game today!

(singing badly off-key) "You'll never walk alone, alone!"
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #22 - 08/23/05 at 12:36:31
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With apologies to Malmo, of course!
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #21 - 08/23/05 at 11:57:15
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But please, oh please, let Thun win the Champion's League!


No way! The Swiss are rich enough! Angry

However, I might be a tad biased due to their opposition tonight...  Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #20 - 08/22/05 at 23:05:59
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Just wondering aloud....


How many of your Denver Chess Collegues know foot ball.
Grin
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #19 - 08/22/05 at 22:08:15
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Just wondering aloud....

Why was Arsenal not turned into A**enal?   Hmmm.  Ok, that was assinine of me.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #18 - 08/22/05 at 17:45:09
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But please, oh please, let Thun win the Champion's League!
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #17 - 08/22/05 at 13:30:47
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Woofwoof,

No clue on F-agan.  (F-agin was an anti-semitic stereotype in Charles Dickens' Oliver Twist which is being made into yet another movie with Ben Kingsley playing him.)

I just figured it out:  The censor is reading a homosexual epithet into the name.  This is ridiculous. 

And then it can't even read the name of the author of A Christmas Carol without twisting its meaning into something filthy.  This is worse than ridiculous, this is scandalous!

As much as I love Liverpool, you've got it all wrong about Chelsea being boring.  Didn't you see the Coca-Cola Cup final between Chelsea and Arsenal about two weeks ago?  There is some amazing talent on both teams, but especially Chelsea.   

This isn't like Argentina or Greece that won major titles by letting better teams beat their brains out against a packed defense only to score a game winner on some flukey counterattack.  Chelsea's the real deal, which means that anyone (that is, Liverpool) who beats them will have really accomplished something!


Before i saw your comments in blue, i was a little surprised to see 'thingyens' instead of 'D**kens'. From some threads around the site i cant help but notice the exagerated censorship around here .

Oh yes! I do agree abt Chelsea being full of talent. I Never said that there wasnt. Neither did i catch the community shield for the want of cable TV.  Tongue Eversince the local TV network was privatised, EPL & other sports  which I enjoy like F1, Cricket, Rugby, & Snooker  hv been stopped and now only cable TV shows them  Angry

But looking at last season's performances w/o Robben, Chelsea were really like the Greeks!! 0-0, 1-0 type of scorelines despite the presence of that exciting Duff and others. They only became pretty lively when Robben returned from injury & then the goals started coming!! When he got injured again, Chelsea were back to square one. It cannot be denied however that Mourinho has REALLY tightened things up at the back. Before Mourinho they leaked goals galore! Another factor which contributes to their rapid rise is of course the $$ of Abramovic. I'm not sure of the coverage of football in the States, but down here there's a lot of heated debates in the papers by sports journalists, ex footballers local or international about Abramovic & his $$ spoiling the sport etc. With his $$ Chelsea can buy the whole Galacticos from Real Madrid & they might be unstoppable!

Which brings to mind another point - the influx of foreigners into England. Liverpool in the past only had English , Scots , Welsh & Irish (basically British) & they were dominant. Now just about every English team has a majority of foreigners in the 1st team!! (look at Chelsea)Which brings to mind somemore questions - Is the talent pool in Britain drying up that foreigners hv to be brought in?? Or for the want of instant success big name stars are brought in, thus keeping out the talented locals esp youth.  I personally see this as the beginning of a vicious cycle for football.
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #16 - 08/22/05 at 12:05:53
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Alumbrado, 

Once again, you are right on all counts.  I meant the Community Shield not the Coca-Cola Cup, and yes, the more recent game was apparently won by a lucky deflection of the knee of Drogba.  (Then again, don't all great goal scorers occasionally get those deflections if they're in the right place at the right time?)

By the way, we'll have to wait and see how good Sweden is this year.  Smiley
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #15 - 08/22/05 at 11:04:43
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With (again) apologies to TJ, I don't think the problem is with Ljungberg getting injured, but rather with a Dutchman, Bergkamp, getting old and not playing so much ...


No problem, you may very well be completely correct. The games I've seen with Ljungberg, he's usually falling around all over the place... 

Though, in national games the experts claim he's very useful, usually pointing out that we've never lost a game with him still on the field.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #14 - 08/22/05 at 10:53:48
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I think you are talking about different games.  There was a game between Chelsea and Arsenal yesterday (21 August) which Chelsea did indeed win with a lucky goal - it bounced off Drogba's shin or knee from what I could see.  But having said that, they always looked the more penetrating side when they went forward.

The game to which Smyslov fan refers, a couple of weeks back, was the Community Shield (not the Coca-Cola Cup), played every year between the Premiership champions and the FA Cup winners.  Chelsea won this as well, and again they were the superior side in my view.

In both games, Arsenal had plenty of possession, but they seem to be lacking the 'killer ball' into the box.  With (again) apologies to TJ, I don't think the problem is with Ljungberg getting injured, but rather with a Dutchman, Bergkamp, getting old and not playing so much ...
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #13 - 08/22/05 at 10:44:24
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Woofwoof,

No clue on Fagan.  (Fagin was an anti-semitic stereotype in Charles Dickens' Oliver Twist which is being made into yet another movie with Ben Kingsley playing him.)

As much as I love Liverpool, you've got it all wrong about Chelsea being boring.  Didn't you see the Coca-Cola Cup final between Chelsea and Arsenal about two weeks ago?  There is some amazing talent on both teams, but especially Chelsea.   

This isn't like Argentina or Greece that won major titles by letting better teams beat their brains out against a packed defense only to score a game winner on some flukey counterattack.  Chelsea's the real deal, which means that anyone (that is, [color=red]Liverpool[color]) who beats them will have really accomplished something!


I suppose 'f*g' is the forbidden word.

I didn't see the recent game Chelsea-Arsenal, but according to the papers here, Chelsea won by a lucky random goal... (probably because Ljungberg got injured Wink
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #12 - 08/22/05 at 10:38:33
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Woofwoof,

No clue on F-agan.  (F-agin was an anti-semitic stereotype in Charles Dickens' Oliver Twist which is being made into yet another movie with Ben Kingsley playing him.)

I just figured it out:  The censor is reading a homosexual epithet into the name.  This is ridiculous. 

And then it can't even read the name of the author of A Christmas Carol without twisting its meaning into something filthy.  This is worse than ridiculous, this is scandalous!

As much as I love Liverpool, you've got it all wrong about Chelsea being boring.  Didn't you see the Coca-Cola Cup final between Chelsea and Arsenal about two weeks ago?  There is some amazing talent on both teams, but especially Chelsea.  

This isn't like Argentina or Greece that won major titles by letting better teams beat their brains out against a packed defense only to score a game winner on some flukey counterattack.  Chelsea's the real deal, which means that anyone (that is, Liverpool) who beats them will have really accomplished something!
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #11 - 08/22/05 at 10:04:24
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Does anyone know what F-A-G-A-N actually means?? Is it  a swear word or a slang like D i l{ E?? It got blotted out by the censors to F*gan??? I was actually meaning the Kop manager, Joe F-A-G-A-N.
  

"I don't make mistakes. I make prophecies which immediately turn out to be wrong." - Murray Walker
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #10 - 08/22/05 at 09:58:31
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I personally hope that Chelsea doesnt make it!! Chelsea under Mourinho is basically a team of all kinds of stars, plenty of attractive attacking players but all playing very very Petrosian like!!. Its such a bore to watch! In fact the only time that they become more interesting is when Robben was around! apart from that.......Ugh! what agony!

Spurs look like they are improving, Martin Jol has done quite a fair bit to really turn the team around. Finally now they are playing the kind of football which was typical of them in the past. I wonder if they are as attractive & creative as they were when Hoddle, Ardiles, Villa, Perryman, Crooks & Archibald were together???

Liverpool?? Hmmm..... As much as I do hv a bit of a spot for them.....I'm not too optimistic abt them winning the league though. Sorry Smyslov Fan! Sure they brought in some good players & Benitez has really done wonderfully..... still I think not this year. Probably in a couple more years. Gerrard would be at his peak then (By golly! when that happens). No doubt they have been unbeaten but i think its just a matter of time when those inconsistant moments will start to set in again. Say what you like, but they just arent the same quality as the boys under Shanks, Paisley, Fagan & Dalglish! - Those were REALLY consistant & dominant.  Another interesting point was under Shanks & Paisley most of their signings came from the youth or lower divisions & they eventually became stars with Liverpool!! (with the exception of Dalglish & Keegan)

Man U will also be up among the contenders together with Arsenal. But I will pick Arsenal to do better than Utd. (just a gut feel). Perhaps Arsenal might win it this Year!! Wenger is a great manager, invested wisely on players & the youth, Great defense & lots of flair & creativity in attack.... what more could one ask for?? Viera may be gone, but they have also shown last season that they can still win without him.

I personally support Newcastle. But unfortunately with Souness in charge Angry I cant see them getting anywhere + they are too reliant on Shearer.
  

"I don't make mistakes. I make prophecies which immediately turn out to be wrong." - Murray Walker
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #9 - 08/22/05 at 08:24:17
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Quote:


On paper the England side has good quality.  There are weaknesses at the back in my view, but the main problem, I'm sorry to say to TJ, is the overpaid Swede in charge.  He has turned what ought to be a good attacking unit into a miserable over-cautious outfit that is painful to watch.  And he hasn't got the defence working as a unit, which might at least help to paper over some of the cracks.

It must be said, that he has reversed the old situation where England used to win all its friendlies but struggle to qualify for major championships.

But we keep getting knocked out of tournaments in the quarter finals - usually on penalties - after spending most of the time fighting a rearguard action.  The classic example was against Portugal in the last European Championships, but Brazil at the last World Cup was also a case in point (they didn't need penalties to beat us - they had Ronaldinho ...)


In national competitions, England is just one of the many medium good teams along with Sweden, Denmark, Holland, Czech Republic, Spain etc etc, while the great ones are the 4 obvious: Brazil, Germany, Italy & Argentina. So don't hang Sven-Göran for that! At least you're getting to quarter finals nowadays! Wink Though, I'd agree with you that he's over paid - if it weren't for the british tabloids... How much money compensates for 24/7 surveillance? 

Btw, as a little case in point - when was the last time England beat Sweden in soccer? Grin


As for Chelsea, isn't their big strength that they practically have an extra team of equal strength just for replacing injured players? - At least, that's the main reason I think they'll win as the other teams are too dependent on just 11-13 players or a few stars.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #8 - 08/22/05 at 08:18:00
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England once had the three best keepers in the world?  I don't remember them having one.

Gordon Banks Smiley
But usually your keepers are sucky. Iirc you had a keeper (Shilton) who played in the team until he was 40. That saying something of the level of the others.

Back on topic, Chelsea will win by a landslide, though I'll be rooting for Spurs. Actually I'll be rooting for any team playing against Chel$ki, including german teams.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #7 - 08/22/05 at 05:57:26
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England once had the three best keepers in the world?  I don't remember them having one.

Alumbrado's right about Lampard and Terry being the heart of Chelsea, and Spurs do look good.  I can't see United being serious challengers what with all the hoopla over the Glazers.  That said, they can definitely be spoilers as they're one of only a handful of teams that can beat Chelsea.

And I'm still not sold on England.  It should be a very good team, but their two best players--Lampard and Gerrard play the same position, and have never quite managed to play together as well as they might.  Rooney is positively terrifying, though, and Terry anchors what should be a very strong central defense.  (Never been much of a Beckham fan, though)...
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #6 - 08/22/05 at 04:53:20
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True, there are many foreign players playing in the Premiership, but Chelsea's success last season was founded mostly on John Terry and Frank Lampard.  Robben was influential at the start of the season, and Makalele and Cech were also outstanding, but Lampard and Terry won the players' player of the year and the sports writers' player of the year awards - generally the most coveted because they reflect the views of those most in the know.

On paper the England side has good quality.  There are weaknesses at the back in my view, but the main problem, I'm sorry to say to TJ, is the overpaid Swede in charge.  He has turned what ought to be a good attacking unit into a miserable over-cautious outfit that is painful to watch.  And he hasn't got the defence working as a unit, which might at least help to paper over some of the cracks.

It must be said, that he has reversed the old situation where England used to win all its friendlies but struggle to qualify for major championships.

But we keep getting knocked out of tournaments in the quarter finals - usually on penalties - after spending most of the time fighting a rearguard action.  The classic example was against Portugal in the last European Championships, but Brazil at the last World Cup was also a case in point (they didn't need penalties to beat us - they had Ronaldinho ...)
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #5 - 08/22/05 at 03:58:23
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So many teams and still no real competition, Chelsea wins.

Btw, I don't see what's so surprising about Denmark crushing England. The premiership is a good league thanks to the many foreigners, but obviously these don't play for England...
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #4 - 08/22/05 at 03:31:19
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Alumbrado, 

Objectively, all you say makes great sense.  I think it's gonna come down to Chelsea and Arsenal.  The Spurs do look like a really good team right now, and Manc's 2-0 victory at Goodison was pretty impressive.  

Nonetheless, Liverpool is riding quite an unbeaten streak that includes defeating Chelsea in the Euro Semis!  Benitez made some rather bizarre comments about Liverpool needing a central defender more than it needs another striker in Michael Owen.  If he'd kept his mouth shut I'd have said Owen was going somewhere else.  But those comments make me more convinced that we will lose Baros and Cisse and get Owen.  But who would we trade to Real Madrid? Hmmm.

BTW, Spurs' main chance rest solely on the play of their no-name goalie.  Cheesy  It's a shame that England, once the proud owner of the best three goalies in the world has to rely on only one.
  
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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #3 - 08/22/05 at 03:19:16
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Chelsea will win, Manchester Utd will push them hard.  Expect big things from Tottenham Hotspur this season - not least because they have made one of the best signings of the summer.  Not Edgar Davids who was over-rated even when he was at his best, but Wayne Routledge from Crystal Palace - as tricky and inventive a right-sided midfielder as Shaun Wright-Phillips at Chelsea, but more likely to get into the first team!
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #2 - 08/21/05 at 21:19:55
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Isn't Tony Blair English Premier?
  

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Re: Who will win the English Premiership this seas
Reply #1 - 08/21/05 at 08:46:00
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Wigan??

I remember a number of years ago that Manchester United tried to buy the premiership (it might have still been the First Division at the time), and failed miserably.  It's a shame that money is now the name of the game.  Still, I wouldn't mind seeing a surprise team running with the big boys this year.  That said, I'll reserve my vote until after today's match between Arsenal and Chelsea.  I'm afraid I don't see Liverpool winning; they're not deep enough to combine Champion's League and Premiership with any success.

Oxford United will win the FA Cup, however.  You heard it here first...
  

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Who will win the English Premiership this season?
08/21/05 at 04:22:40
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Hi all, 

I am a football fanatic, and I know I share this with many chessplayers.  This year's Premiership is really interesting because of all the off-season trades and other stories.  So I ask you, which team will win, and why?  

(I ordered the top four choices alphabetically, then added three more choices, again alphabetically.)

Liverpool will win! 
 
« Last Edit: 08/29/05 at 23:23:31 by Smyslov_Fan »  
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