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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) whats best move order to combat exchange variation (Read 23259 times)
castlerock
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Re: whats best move order to combat exchange varia
Reply #45 - 11/18/05 at 21:52:49
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Thanks LH, for enlightening me the reasons behind your stand in this discussion.  Wink
  

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lost highway
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Re: whats best move order to combat exchange varia
Reply #44 - 11/18/05 at 21:26:02
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castlerock -

I just noticed that you are at 497 posts.  So, only 3 more silly ones from you and you'll be a "god".  ha ha.  Congratulations.   Grin Grin Grin

- Lost Highway
  
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castlerock
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Re: whats best move order to combat exchange varia
Reply #43 - 11/18/05 at 21:08:22
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LH,

Your post above is unwarranted. 

I happen to remember, in this thread virtually every one of us were having a different view to yours. Every one of use were explaining why we think what we think. You never bothered to do it despite repeated requests and reminders. 

It's not too late. You might want to explain yourself now.
  

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lost highway
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Re: whats best move order to combat exchange varia
Reply #42 - 11/18/05 at 11:57:27
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MNb -

Only three more silly posts like this and you'll be at 2,000.  I suppose you'll expect to be congratulated.  Grin

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MNb
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Re: whats best move order to combat exchange varia
Reply #41 - 11/18/05 at 07:38:54
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Memory pill for Lost Highway:

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Nbd7 5.e3 c6 6.Nf3 Qa5 7.cxd5 exd5 (junk - MNb) 8.Bd3 Ne4 9.o-o Nxc3 10.bxc3 Qxc3 11.e4 h6 ("easy for Black" - LH) 12.exd5! hxg5 13.Re1+ Kd8 14.Nxg5 and White has a fantastic attack.

  

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Re: whats best move order to combat exchange varia
Reply #40 - 10/18/05 at 20:39:16
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Semkov is right. the Nimzo problem is eternal. 4.Qc2 is theoretically strongest and gives White a slight pull if Black plays solidly, it is even better when Black tries to be active. Unfortunately the choice is more Black's than White's.  Embarrassed 

Maybe White should try his luck in the Queen's Indian instead. NICbase gives White scoring 53% in the Nimzo, while White scores 56% in the QID. Having looked at the QID recently, it seems less exhausted and strategically richer to me than the Nimzo.  I have a feeling that the next year will be the QID year with Topalov leading the way. Hopefully he will show more spectacular ideas.

By the way, 1. e4 players don't have it better: according to NICbase they have only scored 52% against the Sicilian!   Shocked
  
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Re: whats best move order to combat exchange varia
Reply #39 - 10/18/05 at 14:20:21
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MNb, you'll never solve your NID problem. As a player who has played NID for White ALL my life and nothing other, I can assure you, that this system is totally exausted. That does not mean you cannot win in it, because the play is quite complex. It's just that White has no new ideas and Black is objectively fine.
  
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Re: whats best move order to combat exchange varia
Reply #38 - 10/18/05 at 09:53:51
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I have said elsewhere on this forum that the Catalan, perceived by many to be a dull positional opening aiming for a slight pull, can easily explode into some of the most fascinating gambit play from White.
  

If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
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MNb
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Re: whats best move order to combat exchange varia
Reply #37 - 10/18/05 at 09:23:02
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As soon as I have solved the NID-problem.
Sometimes I feel, that 1.d4 is the more attractive choice for aggressive players. In the KG the subtle positional approach, aiming for a favourable endgame, prevails in many lines these days. At the other hand, if White allows Black to play b7-b5 in the several x...dxc4 openings, play becomes very wild very quickly. This might lead to the remarkable conclusion, that in the 21st century the QG is more aggressive than the KG  Undecided.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: whats best move order to combat exchange varia
Reply #36 - 10/17/05 at 23:19:45
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Quote:

...
Aggressive natures can only hope to meet stubborn Black players willing to defend such positions. So maybe I really must switch to 1.d4, as defenders against 1.e4 are usually too sensible to go for stuff like this.


MNb, 

There are "sensible" players who play 1.d4.  I'm not one of them, because I love to attack.  I have found that playing 1.d4 is very much like serving left-handed in tennis.  It isn't necessarily better than a right-handed serve, but my opponents usually react awkwardly, even at relatively high levels (2100-2300)!   

So if you want to serve up something with a bit of spin, I think you'll like 1.d4 lines!
  
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MNb
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Re: whats best move order to combat exchange varia
Reply #35 - 10/17/05 at 22:29:59
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I wish LH good luck (or is it so easy, that he does not need it?) defending 8.Bd3 Ne4 9.o-o Nxc3 10.bxc3 Qxc3 11.e4 h6 12.exd5! hxg5 13.Re1+ Kd8 14.Nxg5.
According to Spielmann it is not really necessary to analyse this indeep. White has sacced a piece; Black's King is stuck in the centre and all his pieces are undeveloped. White has more than enough lines to use for his heavy artillery. Anyone who calls himself an attacking player, should rejoice to play this position.
Aggressive natures can only hope to meet stubborn Black players willing to defend such positions. So maybe I really must switch to 1.d4, as defenders against 1.e4 are usually too sensible to go for stuff like this.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: whats best move order to combat exchange varia
Reply #34 - 10/17/05 at 04:52:20
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maybe its been too much 5. Bf4 for me (thankfully none of these subtle move-order business), but still i am really puzzled by lost highway ???  I was always sure that an early Bb4 or Qa5 is inferior in exchange QGD structures, why else will Black need to justify his play with tactics like in the  Ragozin (see Ruslan's latest updates), or the  nimzo 4. Qc2 d5 5. ed5 main line, or the Cambridge Springs with 7. cd5 Nd5?
Mr Cox makes much the same point: in the Cambridge Springs with 7. ed5, 7... Nd5 is the only good move (ed5 must lead to an inferior exchange QGD). Smiley
  
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castlerock
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Re: whats best move order to combat exchange varia
Reply #33 - 10/17/05 at 04:20:45
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If that's what you want to believe.  Meanwhile, on the board right in front of you, reality is staring you right in the face:  you are two pawns down.  If you don't want to lose, the only thing you can do is play 14.Qe2 g5 15.Bxe4 fe4 16.Qxe4+ Kf7 17.Qf5+ Kg7 18.Nxg5 hg5 19.Qxg5+ and take the draw.  Maybe black can do better than this somewhere.  I'll look.

- Lost Highway


How about answering SF's three pointed questions? If you do, I promise to look at the merits of you claim.

For the record, I have no problems with correcting my views and openly acknowledging that you are right and my views are wrong.

If I have to do that, you have to enlighten me as to why ... Qa5 is good in exchange variation of QGD. Otherwise, it would be waste of time.

You have three questions before you and I would very much appreciate if you answer them.
  

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lost highway
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Re: whats best move order to combat exchange varia
Reply #32 - 10/17/05 at 03:44:52
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Really? I would be worried about my king side light squares after both ...h6 and ...f5, pawn deficits notwithstanding.

I think, SF's questions have lot of merit....Qa5 in QGD Exchange serves no purpose.

If that's what you want to believe.  Meanwhile, on the board right in front of you, reality is staring you right in the face:  you are two pawns down.  If you don't want to lose, the only thing you can do is play 14.Qe2 g5 15.Bxe4 fe4 16.Qxe4+ Kf7 17.Qf5+ Kg7 18.Nxg5 hg5 19.Qxg5+ and take the draw.  Maybe black can do better than this somewhere.  I'll look.

- Lost Highway
  
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castlerock
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Re: whats best move order to combat exchange varia
Reply #31 - 10/16/05 at 23:33:45
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Against Alekhine's recommended 11.e4! I think 11...h6 is ok for black: 12.Bf4 Nf6; 12.Bh4 de4 13.Re1 (13.Bxe4 Bd6) f5.  This still looks pretty easy for black.



Really? I would be worried about my king side light squares after both ...h6 and ...f5, pawn deficits notwithstanding.

I think, SF's questions have lot of merit....Qa5 in QGD Exchange serves no purpose.
  

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