Normal Topic Playing the rating not the board (Read 4122 times)
castlerock
God Member
*****
Offline


Erro Ergo Sum

Posts: 842
Location: Chennai
Joined: 02/24/05
Gender: Male
Re: Playing the rating not the board
Reply #9 - 10/24/05 at 06:15:15
Post Tools
@SF

I think we are talking of two different things. It is typical sub 2300 syndrome. I.e. like water finds it level where ever it is, we tend to match our opponent’s strength and largely succeed in achieving it!

We see it happen all the time. And you are not alone. In most of these cases, our own superiority in play strength sees us thro’ against lesser opponents while a stronger opponent takes home full points by sheer technical superiority. We see the game deteriorate slowly, very slowly till we lose the point. Most definitely, we would have created an interesting game and earned peer respect, if not the point! 

But I feel, that’s not what Alias wanted to discuss. It is a situation where you make a blunder after systematically out playing your opponent. You can pin point your loss to one or two bad moves and not the systematic deterioration we all have experienced. It’s a different situation. Normally, unfathomable to an outsider and the one you can easily relate to if you had been there.
  

CastleRock
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Willempie
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 4312
Location: Holland
Joined: 01/07/05
Re: Playing the rating not the board
Reply #8 - 10/24/05 at 02:55:39
Post Tools
Quote:
I respect all my opponents.  Their ratings are irrelevant to me.  I fear no one.  They make a move, I make a move.  If I win, I win.  If I lose, I lose.  If it's a draw, it's a draw.  I never ask my opponent what his rating is.  I never look on the wall chart until after the game.  If I've played him before or know who he is, big deal. Today's a new day.

- Lost Highway

I didnt mean you shouldnt respect your opponents. I was more referring to being intimidated. A lot of players I know will simply lose, because they expect to lose.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: Playing the rating not the board
Reply #7 - 10/23/05 at 10:41:13
Post Tools
Castlerock, 

Thank you for your insights on how some players manifest their errors when playing higher rated opponents!

Here are some of my thoughts:

First of all:  ratings are not predictors of future events, but are a fairly reliable reflection of past performance.

I am one of those who play better against better players.  I'm not just talking about ratings.  When an opponent plays good or great moves consistently throughout the game, I can tell that my opponent knows what he's doing.  I try to match that intensity and am usually successful in creating an interesting game.

In very many early round games in tournaments I save energy by playing good, aggresive moves without pushing myself too hard.  I know that I will win almost any endgame against my opponents in the early rounds of a Swiss System(SS) tournaments.  In a SS weekend tournament, the player who has better managed his resources in the early rounds will usually be in the best position to win the tournament at the end.  So I say yes, play the ratings.  

But by playing the ratings I don't mean that I have the right not to respect my opponent.  If I do that I will lose.  I have had numerous games where a lower rated player suddenly comes up with a great game.  I try to make sure I play well throughout, and keep in mind Alekhin's claim that in order to beat him an opponent had to win the opening, middle and endgame.

The reason people respect my rating and play very hard to beat me is that it will make their tournament to have defeated someone they respect.  Some of my opponents' proudest moments came from getting a draw against me.   

When I play a substantially higher rated opponent, I know that he has the burden of winning.  I also know that I will have to play very creatively in order to survive, let alone win.  I look at each of these games as an opportunity to create a beautiful game.  The higher rated player has reached a level of artistry that I believe I can match, but only if I strive with every sinew of my being.   

Sometimes I get blown away, but most often I help my opponent to create an interesting game.  I even succeed in winning my share of games.  I play the best lines I know, and play them sharply, looking for an advantage.  I also know that my endgame technique will not be enough to win against these great players, but it's good enough to make them work very hard if they are to get a full point.


My perspective has helped me to do very well (compared to the rating expectations) against higher rated opponents.  I also do well against a lower rated player who plays a good game from the very beginning.

I tend to get over-confident when a lower-rated player falls into a clearly inferior position and have even lost very frustrating games that way.  I also lose games occasionally to players within my rating class, but those losses are usually due to our relative form rather than how I treated their rating.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Scholar
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 557
Location: Chicago
Joined: 04/26/04
Re: Playing the rating not the board
Reply #6 - 10/15/05 at 14:11:43
Post Tools
I agree with many of the points made above, especially, as Lost Highway suggested, to simply avoid the wall charts until after the round.  Sure, you many know that you're "playing up" but maybe not having a number assigned to your opponent could make it easier.

Of course, I think that there is more to the story: the stronger your opponent is, the better able he will be to play for complications in an inferior or even losing position.  I have seen enough games where a GM snatches victory from the jaws of defeat against IMs and FMs to think that this might be part of the problem, even at relatively high levels of play, and not simply psychology.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, many people often are enthusiastic about playing stronger players, and indeed raise the level of their game when doing so.  In cases like these, it may simply be the difficulty of maintaining this more intense level of concentration for such a long period of time.  Of course, this is related to the above -- the weaker the player, the less likely he can play well from an losing position.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
lost highway
Senior Member
****
Offline


I may be crazy.

Posts: 471
Joined: 06/17/05
Gender: Male
Re: Playing the rating not the board
Reply #5 - 10/15/05 at 11:00:08
Post Tools
I respect all my opponents.  Their ratings are irrelevant to me.  I fear no one.  They make a move, I make a move.  If I win, I win.  If I lose, I lose.  If it's a draw, it's a draw.  I never ask my opponent what his rating is.  I never look on the wall chart until after the game.  If I've played him before or know who he is, big deal. Today's a new day.

- Lost Highway
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Willempie
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 4312
Location: Holland
Joined: 01/07/05
Re: Playing the rating not the board
Reply #4 - 10/14/05 at 17:39:10
Post Tools
We have got 2 players at our club who are a notch above the rest to use an understatement. I never got anywhere against them, sometimes I held out until near the endgame when I would screw up. 
Then I read an interview with a renegade politician. He basically said that they may have more power, they may have better support, they may have better understanding, but they have to beat you first and that aint going to happen. Since then I havent lost against them (including blitz) and I dont play weird openings or somesuch I take them on in the main lines.
My point basically is that you have to lose respect. They may be better players, but they have to prove it first.
Euwe beat Alekhine, Smyslov beat Botwinnik, Tal beat Botwinnik, Kasparov beat Karpov and Greece won the EC
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Alias
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1512
Location: East of the river Svartån
Joined: 11/19/04
Re: Playing the rating not the board
Reply #3 - 10/14/05 at 12:06:59
Post Tools
castlerock: Thanks. Some good advice there.
  

Don't check me with no lightweight stuff.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
castlerock
God Member
*****
Offline


Erro Ergo Sum

Posts: 842
Location: Chennai
Joined: 02/24/05
Gender: Male
Re: Playing the rating not the board
Reply #2 - 10/14/05 at 01:42:58
Post Tools
Alias,

I think I can fully relate to you and I guess, sharing my experience and acquired knowledge might be of help to you.

It is not at the same level. But my son (FIDE rating 1952) has this problem. I have reasons believe he is stronger than what his rating suggests. He has drawn with a couple of IMs He has same problems you have narrated. Your problem, imho, is largely psychological.

The sequence is some thing like this. Lots and lots of good moves, systematically out playing the opponent, losing the grip a bit, one or two medium sized inaccuracies followed by a blunder that throws the winning chances away. Another characteristic of people like you is that quite a few of your wins will be grossly one sided, with opponent remaining a spectator.

Well, I kept telling him, there is no way I can coach him for the goals (that’s the slang in Indian chess circle for blunders and major inaccuracies) he keeps kicking in matches. I mean, if we get convincingly beaten we will learn some thing new and not from this way of playing.

Helpless and perplexed with this problem, I sent his games to a strong GM (2600) for his opinion. He did an excellent job in analyzing various points about his game and suggested me to go over the games of Short in Short – Kasparov 1993 WC match. Especially the white games of Short. In most of them he had clear advantage only to throw them away. I mean, beating Kasparov did not feel normal to Short and he made difficulties for himself much the same way my son plays or as I think, the way you do. Short was 2655 and Kasparov was 2805 during the match.

What I am trying to say and I keep telling my son, Alias, is this. You get into good positions against players (temporarily) with higher rating than you, because you are a good player and you are bound to get good positions on the board. It is not a matter of chance. In these cases, it is better to take a deep breath, relax and continue the way you played to get there in the first place.

My son is unable to do it easily. Hard to expect it from a ten year old. Beating good players should feel normal to him. It’s a function of experience. But, in your case you can work at it and get over it much more easily. Good Luck.

I hope this helps.
« Last Edit: 10/14/05 at 03:09:56 by castlerock »  

CastleRock
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: Playing the rating not the board
Reply #1 - 10/14/05 at 00:34:27
Post Tools
Here's a short answer with a long story:

You're a human being, you have to take into account your opponent's rating or past performance to some extent.   

I'll talk more about my opinion (which goes against most teachers' advice) later.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Alias
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1512
Location: East of the river Svartån
Joined: 11/19/04
Playing the rating not the board
10/13/05 at 16:08:38
Post Tools
I just lost a game. Normally it wouldn't be so bad considering that he is an IM. 
He was slightly worse, being a pawn down when he unexpectedly snatched a pawn back. It was easy to calculate that he would actually loose a piece but I failed to do so and lost soon after. 

In the previous round, I played an uneventful draw against a FM with 2350.

I often tend to use too much time against lower rated players trying to find the very best move in every move.

a) Should I be happy drawing much higher rated players even though the games are dull? (I don't think so.)

b) Is it a psychological thing missing good opportunities against higher rated players? 

c) How do I set my mind not to think about my opponent's rating?
  

Don't check me with no lightweight stuff.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo