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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Books on Dutch Deviations (Read 18763 times)
Black_Widow
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Re: Books on Dutch Deviations
Reply #26 - 05/30/06 at 10:15:02
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ErictheRed wrote on 05/24/06 at 14:41:23:
I don't think I'll get the Bauer book, but how is the Shipkov CD?  Also, who is Schwarz?


Eric, I looked at Shipkov's CD and the one for Dutch A90-A99 hardly contains anything of interest for you. 

The Shipkovs CD A80-A85 deals with variations like 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e6 4.e3 b6, 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nf3 e6 4.e3 b6, 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e6 4.Nf3 Bb4 5.e3 b6, etc.  He has a small section in a text-file where he discusses the above mentioned variations. More of value is the fair amount of analysed games on the CD. They will give you a good impression how to play those positions, however there are some transpositions to the  Dutch A90-A99 CD. Only a couple of the games interesting for you are analysed by Shipkov himself. This means that most analysed games are also available through for instance through the opening encyclopedia CD from chess base.
  
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Alias
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Re: Books on Dutch Deviations
Reply #25 - 05/30/06 at 06:38:14
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I should perhaps also mention that when playing the Dutch in the 80's I mostly played the Bd6 Stonewall, which of obvious reasons is another weak section of the book.
  

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MNb
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Re: Books on Dutch Deviations
Reply #24 - 05/30/06 at 02:43:11
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It seems we agree overall. I own the whole gambit series by Schwarz and don't use them anymore. It definitely has a lower level than the green books.
To get back to the main topic: those interested in 2nd move deviations might also find Schwarz' book on the Dutch useful.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Books on Dutch Deviations
Reply #23 - 05/29/06 at 18:44:30
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1) I started to play the Dutch after having read Schwarz's book. That was in the 80's when I was a weak player.
2) I then bought his book on the Morra which I studied more closely. Not good.
3) After having returned to the Dutch a few years ago after having read Kindermann's book (the german edition) I had a look at Schwarz's book. Didn't find anything of interest. The Leningrad section is outdated.

I realize that I was too harsh. Those interested in the Classical Dutch could find some things of interest. Perhaps.
  

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Black_Widow
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Re: Books on Dutch Deviations
Reply #22 - 05/29/06 at 15:01:39
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Mnb, I could not explain better why Schwarz is a good source. His book about the dutch is not his only book where he sometimes spent over 10 pages of useful theorie on a variation (i.e. also on the QGD, Aljechin exchange variation, etc.), where others do not even give a footnote. Schwarz becomes a well kept secret. Wink
  
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MNb
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Re: Books on Dutch Deviations
Reply #21 - 05/25/06 at 16:12:34
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I am afraid Alias' memory has deceived him.

I quote Schwarz on 7...Qe8: (page 8)
<This is the typical Dutch queen manoevre. The queen strives for h5, to assist strongly with attack on the white king. Combined with the pawnformation d6, e5 and f5 black creates chances on the king's wing.
Practice shows though, that an early ...e5 does not turn out well often, as this move usually gives up square d5. With some reservation one could say, that black first must protect d5, before he can take ...e6-e5 into account. Compare the later cited game ....>

Is this explanation really worse, than what Williams gives?

One can find other examples on pages 46, 47 and 59 (why and when ...a5), page 71 and 72 (on the Stonewall), page 173 and 174 (on the value of Bb4+ against the fianchetto), page 177 (Bronstein compares the Classical Dutch with the Stonewall) and also page 309 (Réti on the Staunton Gambit).

It is true, that the explanations are not very systematical, as they are presented as notes in the variations. It is also true, that one can forget Schwarz on the Leningrad. My point is, that the content is even valuable today. Williams, Pinski and I suspect also MacDonald have not made Schwarz' book on the Dutch superfluous yet, concerning the Classical Dutch. Williams' book is a good addition; even combined a thorough database research remains necessary.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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MNb
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Re: Books on Dutch Deviations
Reply #20 - 05/25/06 at 15:00:19
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Of course, to get up-to-date, using these old sources must be combined with a thorough database research. My point is this. With several exceptions, I wonder how much books of the last five years really add to the books I already have.
As an example I can give Williams' quite decent book: a lot of original stuff. He does not treat the whole Classical Dutch (neither does he want to). He has also neglected a couple of dangerous ideas for White - for instance 1.d4 f5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 e6 4.Nf3 Be7 5.o-o o-o 6.c4 d6 7.Nc3 Qe8 8.Re1 Qg6 9.Qb3!?
Then I am glad to have Schwarz and - in this case - Taimanov.
There are worse examples to find than Williams' book.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Books on Dutch Deviations
Reply #19 - 05/25/06 at 07:37:46
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Hmm. Pulled out my copy of "Holländisch". It's clearly not as bad as I remembered it. Still, I think Schwarz's books mostly are for people like MNb who like to find old forgotten ideas. (I'm still amazed that he uses an early 80's book for the Bb5 sicilian.)
  

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Re: Books on Dutch Deviations
Reply #18 - 05/25/06 at 07:04:58
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Schwarz just collected and sorted games in a time when databases were not used. Almost no explanations or own analysis. They don't contribute anything to a decent database nowadays.
  

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Re: Books on Dutch Deviations
Reply #17 - 05/25/06 at 02:39:31
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Rolf Schwarz was a German author of very good opening books. In 1964 he published a book of 389 pages on the Dutch; about 25 of them are devoted on 2nd move deviations and more than 40 on the Staunton Gambit. As he mentioned everything he could lay hands on, he is still a good source. I mean, where can you find something like 1.d4 f5 2.g3 e6 3.Bg2 Nf6 4.Nf3/4.Nh3 c5 ? Exactly, in Schwarz' book.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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ErictheRed
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Re: Books on Dutch Deviations
Reply #16 - 05/24/06 at 14:41:23
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Thanks Black Widow.  I'm not sure how helpful Kindermann's book will be to me, because I'm looking for Dutch-Indian lines with ...b6.  Tomorrow night I'll take a look at Martin's The Contemporary Anti-Dutch since it's in my club's library.

I don't think I'll get the Bauer book, but how is the Shipkov CD?  Also, who is Schwarz?
  
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Re: Books on Dutch Deviations
Reply #15 - 05/22/06 at 10:50:42
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A very good book on Dutch deviations is from Kindermann the Leningrad Dutch. It gives good lines against 2 Nc3, 2 Bg5, stonewall, etc. I think this book is a must for all Dutch players who do not want to avoid the anti-dutch lines, by playing 1 .. e6 or 1 .. d6.

Andrew Martin's book, The Contemporary Anti-Dutch, was nice at the time, but is outdated now. Bellin is also outdated with regard of the anti-Dutch lines.

I also have the Bauer and the Shipkov CD's but I do not know out of my head if they are any good, if you want to play .. b6 - Dutch lines. I will look at them over the following weekend.

Bellin is covering some of the Dutch Indian and other lines you are interested, but just in a couple of pages. Have you already looked at Schwarz? He sometimes has very detailed coverages about forgotten theory.
  
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Re: Books on Dutch Deviations
Reply #14 - 05/22/06 at 10:05:26
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fluffy wrote on 05/21/06 at 19:22:09:
there is the out of print Andrew Martin book, The Contemporary Anti-Dutch, which will be on ebay later tonight.


IIRC, this work deals mostly with 2.e4, 2.Bg5, 2.Nc3 & misc 2nds - I don't remember any coverage of Black ...b6 set-ups.

Otherwise, it's a good effort but quite dated nowadays, 16 years is a lot in chesstheory.


ErictheRed wrote on 05/20/06 at 16:40:48:
Thanks Mrcowsy!  I didn't think to try Bauer's book.  Unfortunately I don't want to order it if it only covers a small sideling of the Dutch.  Can someone tell me what this book covers for a Dutch player?  I assume it covers the English Defence, but I want coverage of lines like 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e6 4.e3 b6, 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nf3 e6 4.e3 b6, 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e6 4.Nf3 Bb4 5.e3 b6, etc.  These lines can all arise from the English Defence move order, but some authors would skip over them, saying they belong to other openings.

Is there anywhere I can see a table of contents online, or would someone pretty please post a small table of contents or index of variations?  Thanks!


I think there was a review of it here by Sutter Cane, so check the older threads in this subforum.
  
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fluffy
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Re: Books on Dutch Deviations
Reply #13 - 05/21/06 at 19:22:09
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there is the out of print Andrew Martin book, The Contemporary Anti-Dutch, which will be on ebay later tonight.
  
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Re: Books on Dutch Deviations
Reply #12 - 05/20/06 at 16:40:48
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Thanks Mrcowsy!  I didn't think to try Bauer's book.  Unfortunately I don't want to order it if it only covers a small sideling of the Dutch.  Can someone tell me what this book covers for a Dutch player?  I assume it covers the English Defence, but I want coverage of lines like 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e6 4.e3 b6, 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nf3 e6 4.e3 b6, 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e6 4.Nf3 Bb4 5.e3 b6, etc.  These lines can all arise from the English Defence move order, but some authors would skip over them, saying they belong to other openings.

Is there anywhere I can see a table of contents online, or would someone pretty please post a small table of contents or index of variations?  Thanks!
  
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