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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense (Read 121256 times)
Gambit
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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense
Reply #129 - 03/10/11 at 22:23:52
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CraigEvans wrote on 03/10/11 at 18:54:43:
Gambit wrote on 03/10/11 at 16:50:49:
I wrote the book on 8 00 Nxd4 9 Kh1 line, my dear chap. Everyone else just contributed their own ideas.
And yes, 9...c6 does not solve Black's problems. I call it the "Waiting Out" approach, the most cowardliest one. As for the Gunderam Defense, 5...Bf5, I have played many times against it, and won.


Lev may have written the book, but he seems to have written it in the style of Schiller, missing out the most important chapter.  Cheesy

Rewrite it Lev - find some improvements which save white in this line (9...Nc6). You've had five years now. You're still two pawns down for hopes and traps.


Schiller? Ewww... He can't write worth crap. His books are full of factual errors, typos, mispellings, wrong dates, missing information, wrong analyses, etc. Good gracious! Schiller originally recommended (Unorthodox Openings, 1987) 7...Nc6 as the refutation of the BDG. Then, in 1993, I came up with the Zilbermints Gambit. Two years later, at the sidelines of the 1995 New York Open, I challenged him to a match. He accepted, but he never played the Euwe Defense! Instead, I had to drag him into the BDG by a transposition from the Caro-Kann. Our BDG games were tied, with 2 wins for each player. The last game was a French Defense, which he won. Schiller then claimed that the BDG was refuted. However, the fact is that the last game was not a BDG! The score was tied, 2-2, as far as BDG was concerned.

In my games, I give possible moves for the White player. Everything is based on extant games with the Zilbermints Gambit. These come from Internet Chess Club; correspondence; tournament practice; blitz matches, casual games... As of this writing, there are 317 extant games with the ZGED.

With increasing popularity, I shall publish a new edition of my book. Let me point out to my detractors that Lev D. Zilbermints is not Eric Schiller. I check my historical data; find games to back up my arguments; play games; and make sure there are no typos. Schiller cannot boast of that.

I agree with Arkhein's 12 Bf4 as the best move. In fact, I am using that move in a slightly different variation. So, I'll post lines later here. All we have seen here is that 12 Bh4? is a mistake.

Your opinions have been noted and will be addressed. I should point out however, that it is easy for you to sit at a computer, without a clock ticking, and throw out variations that supposedly refute this or that. But in a serious OTB tournament game, bereft of your precious Rybka, you would not stand a chance. All the more if you were to play me after you had played a couple of other games in 2-3 prior rounds.

Sheesh, I can turn this around by buying Rybka and saying supposed variation XYZ refutes the Danish Gambit, the Smith-Morra or Queen's Gambit! Which, my dear chap, is what you are doing. I'm just illustrating the false pretense of your argument.

I can, and will, post some games with ZGED here later on, just to illustrate the gambit is pretty much alive and kicking. So-called  refutations on the other hand, are so much trash in a stray cat's litter box.  Grin
  
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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense
Reply #128 - 03/10/11 at 22:03:50
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I'm right now playing a game by email correspondence. That game has what Arkhein suggests, Bf4, but by a different route. Here are the opening moves so far:

Zilbermints - Nick Paulsen
Correspondence, 2011

1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6 6 Bg5 Be7 7 Bd3 Nc6 8 00 Nxd4 9 Kh1 Nf5 10 Qe1 h6 11 Bf4 00 12 Rd1 Bd7  13 Bxf5 ef5 14 Nd4 Re8 15 Nxf5 Bd6 16 Nxh6+! gxh6 17 Qg3+ Ng4 18 Bxd6 cxd6  19 h3 Re3 20 Qf4 Qh4 21 Kg1 Rae8? 22 Qxf7! Kh8 23 Qxd7 R3e7 24 Qxg4! and here I have a winning advantage.
« Last Edit: 03/11/11 at 04:15:48 by Gambit »  
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CraigEvans
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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense
Reply #127 - 03/10/11 at 18:54:43
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Gambit wrote on 03/10/11 at 16:50:49:
I wrote the book on 8 00 Nxd4 9 Kh1 line, my dear chap. Everyone else just contributed their own ideas.
And yes, 9...c6 does not solve Black's problems. I call it the "Waiting Out" approach, the most cowardliest one. As for the Gunderam Defense, 5...Bf5, I have played many times against it, and won.


Lev may have written the book, but he seems to have written it in the style of Schiller, missing out the most important chapter.  Cheesy

Rewrite it Lev - find some improvements which save white in this line (9...Nc6). You've had five years now. You're still two pawns down for hopes and traps.
  

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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense
Reply #126 - 03/10/11 at 18:51:34
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I wouldn't play the 9...c6 line, but I have no doubt it is another route to -/+. For "cowardliest" (is that even a real word?!), read "strong". The simple reason I wouldn't play it is because 9...Nc6 (found earlier in this thread) was found to be very strong.

Lev has still not managed to defend or repair lines given as far back as 2006(!) in this ZGED thread. Even his best attempts in another thread were at bailing out with perpetuals. What could be more cowardly than that? 9...Nc6 from years back was seen to refute this line - the analysis (when Lev finally entered into it) is between pages 3-6 of this thread. The ZGED has been refuted for four years. Happy days.  Grin

To save you looking up the time, we went with 9...Nc6 on the basis of Drueke-Sawyer and Sawyer-Just correspondence games. We followed through logically with 10.Qe1 Bd7 11.Rd1 h6 12.Bh4!? (Though Rybka 4 considers 12.Qh4!? stronger, we could not find sufficient compensation for white here) O-O 13.Bb5 Qe8! and now:

a) 14.Bxf6 Bxf6 15.Ne4 was followed by some typically sloppy and over-ambitious analysis for white at first, but we eventually worked out that 15...Be7 is solid and fine (though Lev never attempted any analysis to save white's bacon), and even better may be 15...Bxb2 16.Qg3! Qe7!! intending 17.Qxc7 Be8! -+ and 17.c3 is insufficient after 17...f5. This was discussed in some detail during the thread, inbetween the usual diatribes.

b) Lev then tried to save the line with 14.Qg3 Rc8 15.Rxd7?? but 15...Nxd7 is the end of that line.

Arkhein did suggest that going back to 12.Bf4 may be an improvement - Lev can cite the spurious (black has weakened his kingside) argument and opt to maintain pressure. However, Arkhein's suggestion seemed to be ignored by most and no lines were ever posted. For what it's worth white might have a drop of compensation in this setup, especially if black castles with 12...O-O as is natural. However, 13.Ne4 can probably be met by the interesting 13...Nh5!? intending to advance with ...f5. Black is two pawns up... as I said often during the early part of the thread, where is the mate?

Unless someone can come up with some incredible ideas for white, then the ZGED is still dead. It has been for five years. R.I.P., Z.G.E.D.   Cheesy
  

"Give a man a pawn, and he'll smell a rat. Give a man a piece, and he'll smell a patzer." - Me.

"If others have seen further than me, it is because giants have been standing on my shoulders."
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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense
Reply #125 - 03/10/11 at 16:50:49
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SWJediknight wrote on 03/10/11 at 10:00:33:
When I've faced the BDG as Black, I've traditionally opted for the Gunderam Defence (5...Bf5) but if I was playing Zilbermints I would certainly opt for 5...e6 (though I'm a slightly weaker player so I would probably still lose even after getting a better position in the 8.0-0 Nxd4 9.Kh1 c6 line).


I wrote the book on 8 00 Nxd4 9 Kh1 line, my dear chap. Everyone else just contributed their own ideas.
And yes, 9...c6 does not solve Black's problems. I call it the "Waiting Out" approach, the most cowardliest one. As for the Gunderam Defense, 5...Bf5, I have played many times against it, and won.
  
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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense
Reply #124 - 03/10/11 at 10:00:33
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When I've faced the BDG as Black, I've traditionally opted for the Gunderam Defence (5...Bf5) but if I was playing Zilbermints I would certainly opt for 5...e6 (though I'm a slightly weaker player so I would probably still lose even after getting a better position in the 8.0-0 Nxd4 9.Kh1 c6 line).
  
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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense
Reply #123 - 03/09/11 at 17:48:44
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Right now I am playing a couple of test correspondence games with the Zilbermints Gambit on a chess website. When they are done, I will post them here. Keep in mind that both me and my opponent are rated under 1400 in correspondence on that site. Naturally this affects the play. While I play my full 2100+ OTB strength, my opponent seems to be much weaker.

Will keep you posted.
  
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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense
Reply #122 - 03/03/11 at 00:59:41
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I have counted the number of games in my two-part article on the Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense.
So here is the data.

Correspondence games:                        55
Internet Chess Club/FICS/WCN/ games: 82
Over-the-Board Games:                       167

Grand Total:                                        314 games

An absolute majority of the games date from 1993 - 2010.
  
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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense
Reply #121 - 03/02/11 at 14:36:09
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I don't care much for Rybka or any of the chess engines, preferring to use my own genius. Just to show how ignorant computers can be, 11...h6 is a weakening move. After 12 Bf4 Black has a perennial weakness on h6, with sacrificial possibilities of Bxh6 always hanging in the air. Having said that, I should point out that Peter Leisebein used both the Zilbermints and Leisebein-Zilbermints Gambits to good effect in correspondence chess, where you have more time to think.

With regard to blitz, yes, these gambits can be a deadly weapon. But really, I use blitz only as a testing ground. In regular chess, I am lucky to get 1 or 2 games a year with the Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe!
  
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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense
Reply #120 - 03/02/11 at 14:17:31
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Not sure about the soundness of this line either (though it should be good for blitz).  Black can play 11...c6 giving a position that also arises from 7...Nc6 8.0-0 Nxd4 9.Kh1 c6 10.Nxd4 Qxd4 11.Qe2 0-0 but perhaps best of all is Rybka's preference 11...h6 forcing a decision from the g5 bishop.
  
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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense
Reply #119 - 03/02/11 at 01:59:42
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Correction: Not 10 Kh1, but instead, 10 Nxd4! as in Leisebein-Bourgoin, corres. 2003, and Leisebein - Schulz, corres. 2002.
  
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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense
Reply #118 - 03/01/11 at 22:50:12
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IM Christoph Wisnewski wrote on 03/01/11 at 20:10:06:
Gambit wrote on 03/01/11 at 16:53:44:
Done.

Clark Gambit: 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6 6 Bd3 Nc6 8 00

Leisebein-Zilbermints Gambit: 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6 6 Bg5 Be7 7 Bd3 00 8 Qe2 Nc6
9 00 Nxd4 10 Kh1


Zilbermints Gambit Delayed: 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6 6 Bg5 Be7 7 Bd3 00 8 00  9 Qe1 Nxd4


I'd like to see White's compensation after 10...Nxe2!  Grin


I can't tell you how many times I've seen people stutter while delivering some witty rebuttal. It might be even funnier over the internet, but just barely.
  
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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense
Reply #117 - 03/01/11 at 20:10:06
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Gambit wrote on 03/01/11 at 16:53:44:
Done.

Clark Gambit: 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6 6 Bd3 Nc6 8 00

Leisebein-Zilbermints Gambit: 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6 6 Bg5 Be7 7 Bd3 00 8 Qe2 Nc6
9 00 Nxd4 10 Kh1


Zilbermints Gambit Delayed: 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6 6 Bg5 Be7 7 Bd3 00 8 00  9 Qe1 Nxd4


I'd like to see White's compensation after 10...Nxe2!  Grin
  

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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense
Reply #116 - 03/01/11 at 16:53:44
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Done.

Clark Gambit: 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6 6 Bd3 Nc6 8 00

Leisebein-Zilbermints Gambit: 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6 6 Bg5 Be7 7 Bd3 00 8 Qe2 Nc6
9 00 Nxd4 10 Nxd4! Qxd4 11 Kh1

Zilbermints Gambit Delayed: 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6 6 Bg5 Be7 7 Bd3 00 8 00  9 Qe1 Nxd4
« Last Edit: 03/02/11 at 01:57:38 by Gambit »  
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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense
Reply #115 - 02/28/11 at 15:26:05
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Gambit wrote on 02/27/11 at 03:01:01:
I am proofreading my article in UON #27 right now. It is out, but not officially released yet. So once I do that, you will see it come March 2011. Issue #27 is cover-dated January-May 2011.

A word about blitz games. Since the Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense games are rare, I try to play many Internet Chess Club  games to test critical lines. Even there, not everyone accepts the challenge to play Black. And ICC games comprise the vast majority of my articles! It also means people are more willing to experiment on ICC, since their rating (FIDE or USCF) will not suffer. Outside of ICC, you see few games with the Zilbermints Gambit. Any good database will show you that it is limited at best to fewer than 10 played each year.

While I cannot say that I have every game with the Zilbermints Gambit or its related systems (Clark Gambit, Leisebein-Zilbermints Gambit, Zilbermints Gambit Delayed) my articles represent the first comprehensive effort to organize all known theory and games. The reader will find more than 300 games in the article; an index of variations and players; and a history covering 60 years, 1950 - present.


Considering the obscurity, to put it mildly, of the variations signified by these names, it might be helpful to put moves alongside them.

Unrelatedly, I deleted someone's post mocking these systems as unsound.  They may be unsound, but I don't think posts of that kind are constructive in a section of the forum devoted to chess theory.  Further it would be very helpful if everyone went out of his way not to encourage antagonism on these BDG threads, which have a way of degenerating.

Analysis showing any given line's soundess or unsoundness, now that would be welcome.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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