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Normal Topic Classical Dutch 7.b3 (Read 5235 times)
MNb
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Re: Classical Dutch 7.b3
Reply #6 - 04/12/06 at 21:10:40
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The question, where to place the queen, is a hard one, if one has the choice. But I am sure of one thing: only few Whities will consider the exchange Bxc6, no matter if Black gets doubled pawns. As JN has indicated, giving up the fianchettoe bishop often is not even worth a pawn.
I am curious to learn about improvements for White in the Belov game. Eg 16.Bxh3 Qxh3 17.Qg2 Qh6 18.Nc2 Ng4 19.Qe2 Qg6 20.Qd3 Qh6 with a draw.
All in all the two games do not really challenge the IZ imo.
  
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JN
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Re: Classical Dutch 7.b3
Reply #5 - 04/12/06 at 06:48:14
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Thanks MNb.

Your idea in the Tregubov game is interesting. It lead me to the following: Instead of your 11...Qe7 I would probably prefer to place the queen on her "usual" square (e8). That leaves the e7-square for the knight. Thus, in the game Tregubov-Williams I now suggest 10...Nxd2 11.Qxd2 Qe8 12.b4 e5 13.d5 Ne7 and Black is OK. If 12.Qe3 Black can play 12... a5!? or 12...e5 13.Bd5 Kh8 14.Bxc6 Qxc6 (note again the difference between having the Q on e8 instead of e7) 15.dxe5 dxe5 16.Bxe5 Bxe5 17.Qxe5 Re8 18.Qb2 f4 and Black is (more than) OK.

Your idea in the Belov game looks good. However, White's 16.Nd3 is not the best...
  
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MNb
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Re: Classical Dutch 7.b3
Reply #4 - 04/12/06 at 03:27:23
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Frankly I disagree with Williams on 7.b3 Ne4. Black has some other decent options.
7...a5 8.Bb2 Qe8 and White has nothing better than 9.Nc3 transposing to another main line.
7...Qe8 8.Bb2 (8.Ba3 a5 9.Nc3 Na6) Qh5 (Nc6 9.d5 Nd8 10.Nc3 might be a bit risky, but Bd8 9.Nc3 Nbd7 is interesting) 9.Nc3 (9.Nbd2 Nc6) a5 (Nc6 9.d5 again; via another move order Williams gives Nbd7) is again another main line.

In the game Tregubov-Williams I suggest 10...Nxd2 11.Qxd2 Qe7 12.b4 e5.
In the Belov game there is 16...Bxg2 17.Qxg2 Ng4 and White has a hard time to defend the extra pawn.
  
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Paul123
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Re: Classical Dutch 7.b3
Reply #3 - 04/11/06 at 14:07:51
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I too have been looking at the Classical Dutch ( a dialog with MNB kind of influenced me into looking at it) the opening makes good sense if one plays the French. 


K Spraggett is a GM who plays the Dutch and has been known to essay the classical from time to time.  When he an plays an early Ne4 and Bf6..... d5 is soon to follow looking for a favorable stonewall formation.  Neil McDonald’s "Starting out. The Dutch Defense” say’s one should be well versed in the Stonewall in order to play the Classical. So far...in looking at the Classical,  I would have to say that comment makes good sense.  If white is not on guard Black can transpose into a favorable stonewall.

However,  I like the lines with a5 and delaying the knight's jump to e4 against b3 lines..

  1.d4 e6 2.c4 f5 3.g3 Nf6 4.Bg2 Be7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.0-0 d6 7.b3 a5 8.Bb2 Nc6 or 8...Qe8..mucks up the water real good.   


The two games above I wouldn't be too worried about...  William's opponents were both 100 points higher than he was and they know he loves to play the Classical so they were well prepared.
  
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Re: Classical Dutch 7.b3
Reply #2 - 04/11/06 at 13:28:27
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In his book S. Williams suggests the alternative 7.- Ne4 8.Bb2 Bf6 9.Nbd2 Nc6 10.Ne1 Nxd2 11.Qxd2 e5 and rates it as equal. Fritz clearly disagrees. According to the machine it is rather +/= or maybe even +/-. Instead of 11.- e5?! Black could try 11.- a5!? 12.Qe3 (or else Black will be able to push his e-pawn) Qe8 13.Nd3 and now 13.- a4!? or 13.- Nb4!? both seem to give White a slight advantage, but might be playable for Black.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Classical Dutch 7.b3
Reply #1 - 04/11/06 at 11:51:39
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I've been experimenting in blitz with several of the other dutch set-ups other than the Leningrad, and the one that feels most 'right' to me is Alekhine's 6...Ne4, as you still have the choice between an Iljin and an aggressive Stonewall, with d7-d5, Bf6 and c7-c5. The latter is of course most interesting after a Nc3 Ne4xc3 Qc2xc3 etc, which is rather common though.
  
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JN
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Classical Dutch 7.b3
04/11/06 at 11:34:35
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1.d4 e6 2.c4 f5 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 Be7 5.Bg2 0-0 6.0-0 d6 7.b3

Simon Williams has recently lost two games in this line:

Belov,V (2608) - Williams,S (2452) [A96]
7th ch-Euro Kusadasi TUR (2), 05.04.2006

1.d4 e6 2.c4 f5 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 Be7 5.Bg2 0-0 6.0-0 d6 7.b3 Ne4 8.Bb2 Nd7 9.Nbd2 Ndf6 10.Ne1 Qe8 11.Nxe4 fxe4 12.f3 Qh5 13.fxe4 e5 14.e3 Bg4 15.Qd2 Bh3 16.Nd3 Ng4 17.Bxh3 Qxh3 18.dxe5 dxe5 19.Nxe5 Rad8 20.Qe2 Nxh2 21.Rxf8+ Kxf8 22.Qf2+ Bf6 23.Bd4 c5 24.Bxc5+ Kg8 25.Qxh2 Qe6 26.Bd4 Bxe5 27.Rf1 Bxd4 28.exd4 Rxd4 29.Qf2 Rd8 30.Qxa7 Qxe4 31.Qf2 h6 32.Qf3 Qg6 33.Kg2 Rd3 34.Qf8+ Kh7 35.Qf4 Rc3 36.Rf2 h5 37.Kh2 b6 38.Re2 Kh8 39.Qb8+ Kh7 40.Qf4 Kh8 41.Re5 Kg8 42.Rf5 Rc2+ 43.Kh3 Rxa2 44.Qe4 Qg4+ 45.Qxg4 hxg4+ 46.Kxg4 Re2 47.Kf4 Re6 48.g4 Kh7 49.Re5 Rg6 50.Kf5 Rf6+ 51.Ke4 Rg6 52.g5 Rd6 53.b4 Kg6 54.Rd5 Re6+ 55.Kd4 Kh5 56.c5 bxc5+ 57.Kxc5 Re1 58.b5 1-0

Tregubov,P (2556) - Williams,S (2452) [A96]
XXII Open Reykjavik ISL (8), 13.03.2006

1.d4 e6 2.c4 f5 3.g3 Nf6 4.Bg2 Be7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.0-0 d6 7.b3 Ne4 8.Bb2 Bf6 9.Nbd2 Nc6 10.Ne1 Ng5 11.f4 Nf7 12.e3 e5 13.fxe5 dxe5 14.d5 Ne7 15.e4 c6 16.Nd3 cxd5 17.exd5 g5 18.g4 Bg7 19.gxf5 Bxf5 20.Ne4 Qb6+ 21.Kh1 Qg6 22.Qe2 h5 23.Ba3 Rfe8 24.Bxe7 Rxe7 25.Rxf5 Qxf5 26.Qxh5 Qh7 27.Qxh7+ Kxh7 28.Bh3 Rd8 29.Rf1 Bh6 30.Ndc5 Nd6 31.Ne6 Rxe6 32.dxe6 Nxe4 33.Bf5+ Kg7 34.Bxe4 Rf8 35.Rd1 Kf6 36.Bxb7 Kxe6 37.c5 Bg7 38.c6 Rf7 39.Bc8+ 1-0

Apparently, Williams has switched to 8.- Nd7 instead of 8.- Bf6 (8.- Bf6 was the only suggestion in his own book on the Classical Dutch). Still, it looks like Black needs to come up with improvements. Maybe Fritz's suggestion 7.- Ne4 8.Bb2 Bf6 9.Nbd2 Nc6 10.Ne1 Nc5!? is the solution. Or maybe an alternative to 7.- Ne4. What do you think?
  
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