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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Best versus Noteboom? (Read 40947 times)
Glenn Snow
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #35 - 05/26/06 at 11:40:30
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I was just curious if 1.d4 d6 2.c4 was covered, or at least a system that avoid transposing to e-pawn openings.
  
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chessy
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #34 - 05/18/06 at 09:43:31
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@ericthered: I dont know any new literature. But the ebook here on collarme is very good.
  
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #33 - 05/18/06 at 09:33:58
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lnn2 wrote on 05/17/06 at 06:26:27:
actually i wish Cox's book was written earlier!  Undecided Then i wouldn't have to collect all the information from various sources to play many of these lines... young players nowadays are lucky to have such authors as Cox writing these useful books! (i'm in my early 20s but already start to feel over the hill..)


Ah, tell me about it!  24 is feeling very old now.  Cry  I remember being happy to get my hands on books by Burgess on some main-line openings.  Learning main line openings from that style of presentation as a class C/B player was really a pain.  (I never had a coach for guidance.)  In retrospect, I probably would have been better off reading Informants.  I would haved loved Chess Stars publications back then.

I think my choice of openings back then was largely determined by what material I could find.  For instance, I think Ward's book on the Dragon (back when he was an IM) was largely responsible for my dependence on the Dragon throughout my career.  Now there are so many books, it's hard to make up one's mind.  I suppose it's partly to my advantage having had to grind through these opening systems on my own, but it's a bit frustrating when all these great books come out when I don't have time for chess anymore.  OK, enough reminiscing, it's too depressing.


I am minded to delete any posts from 20-somethings complaining about feeling old.  Angry
  

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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #32 - 05/18/06 at 09:32:12
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@Markovich: Sure thats the way we all love chess. It is not that I wanted to complain about it. If so I could play calmer stuff. I only intendet to give my opinion to the question "best versus notboom"?.

And again, the advantage for white here is not that the so called "theorie" states white is better. The theorie says it is unclear. But i feel even if black knows the stuff he hartdly ever can neutralise the white initiative. He can objectivly equlise with learning the moves by heart, but the king will still be under fire until the end of the game.

In my experience I often reach with black a position after the oponing where at least my "eloctonic friend shredder" think black is better. But still I am going to lose it quite often as, I still have to play very acurate until move 40, one smoll mistake and the white advantage is huge. Ok with 2100 i am not a "chess god" and my experience is not that important. But after working trough several chessbase games I feel that on GM level still it happens the same. 

So my advise to white players who fear the notboom. Just try it. Maybe dont play the 8.Ba5 line as black has some counter attacks hidden and black will know them for sure. Just place your pieces on active squares and make normal moves. Dont think about the minus pawn. This sort of positions hardly ever reaches an endgame.

Possible play is 8.Be2 and on 8....Na6 Bc3. Often black react with a latter f6 followed with e5. But to defend this center is not easy. the pieces stay on the board and the black king has no safe heaven.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #31 - 05/18/06 at 03:10:42
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Speaking of the Noteboom, has there been any new literature on it since that old book by Van Der Werf and Van Der Vorm?  I'm not aware of a book that covers it from the Black side.
  
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #30 - 05/18/06 at 00:25:02
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lnn2 wrote on 05/17/06 at 06:26:27:
actually i wish Cox's book was written earlier!  Undecided Then i wouldn't have to collect all the information from various sources to play many of these lines... young players nowadays are lucky to have such authors as Cox writing these useful books! (i'm in my early 20s but already start to feel over the hill..)


Ah, tell me about it!  24 is feeling very old now.  Cry  I remember being happy to get my hands on books by Burgess on some main-line openings.  Learning main line openings from that style of presentation as a class C/B player was really a pain.  (I never had a coach for guidance.)  In retrospect, I probably would have been better off reading Informants.  I would haved loved Chess Stars publications back then.

I think my choice of openings back then was largely determined by what material I could find.  For instance, I think Ward's book on the Dragon (back when he was an IM) was largely responsible for my dependence on the Dragon throughout my career.  Now there are so many books, it's hard to make up one's mind.  I suppose it's partly to my advantage having had to grind through these opening systems on my own, but it's a bit frustrating when all these great books come out when I don't have time for chess anymore.  OK, enough reminiscing, it's too depressing.
  

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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #29 - 05/18/06 at 00:15:41
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My main problem with the Noteboom is not the difficulty of preparing but the fact that so far as I can see it essentially refutes the Queen's Gambit.

My particular problem with 9 Ba5 is the line 9...f6 10 Qd8+ Kf7 11 000 Na6 12 Bd3 (so far so main line) Qxg2. Now after a bit of effort and a number of crushing defeats by some dude on the ICC who plays this all the time, I have located a draw with 13 Ne2 Qxf2 14 Ng3 Nc5 15 Bb4 Ne6 16 Bg6+ hxg6 17 Rd7+ Bxd7 18 Qxd7+ Ne7 19 Qxe7+ Kg8 20 Qxe6+ Kh7 21 Qh3+ and perpetual check (White doesn't have to take this at once but I think he's going to have to soon). That's the first step, but I think it's also the last step; I can't see why this doesn't just close the debate on 9 Ba5. Anyone out there going to help me?

Markovich, by the way, I sent someone I thought was you an email about the Alekhine. Did you get it and ignore me, or have I got the wrong person/address? Anyway, if you want to discuss a theory I have about the 4PA then mail me on johncox@dewarhogan.co.uk.
  
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #28 - 05/17/06 at 16:14:32
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chessy wrote on 05/17/06 at 09:34:41:
I am a notboom player. Personly I hate the the gambit move e4 (1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c6 4.e4)

For this pawn white gets a huge initiativ, and even if black can equalise, he still has to play so acurate till the end. One smoll mistake and you black is losing, while white has all the time an easy life. 

And even if you are not the typ of player who likes to sac pawns, here you realy have a long time initiative with various diffrent moves. I hardly ever saw a endgame where black could convert is extra pawn.


Yeah, that's all true.  If you play the "Triangle" you have to steel yourself to the possibility of defending this gambit, which has several dangerous forms.  But what do you expect when you play for a win as Black?

It's interesting that on this thread, we have both White and Black players wringing their hands over the difficulty of preparing for, and playing, such complex and critical lines.  So, chess is a very hard game, what's new?
  

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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #27 - 05/17/06 at 09:34:41
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I am a notboom player. Personly I hate the the gambit move e4 (1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c6 4.e4)

For this pawn white gets a huge initiativ, and even if black can equalise, he still has to play so acurate till the end. One smoll mistake and you black is losing, while white has all the time an easy life. 

And even if you are not the typ of player who likes to sac pawns, here you realy have a long time initiative with various diffrent moves. I hardly ever saw a endgame where black could convert is extra pawn.
  
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #26 - 05/17/06 at 07:27:32
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It is interesting to hear that IM's read "Starting Out"-books.  Smiley

As 200 or so pages won't be enough to cover any details I guess it can be seen as a guide for further database/Informant/NiC yb/Chess pub reading, with some notes about ideas, move orders and such. (One can compare with the MASSIVE Chess-stars series on 1.Nf3 and 1.e4.)

I like John's book on the Alekhine and recently bought the "d4 deviations" book. (I might try something else than 1...f5 for the next CC tournament.) Both books are good choices for slim volumes. I wonder how this new book will turn out.

Neil McDonald is writing the "Starting Out: 1 e4!" book, which will be published soon after the d4 book. It will be interesting to see his choices too.
  

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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #25 - 05/17/06 at 06:26:27
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actually i wish Cox's book was written earlier!  Undecided Then i wouldn't have to collect all the information from various sources to play many of these lines... young players nowadays are lucky to have such authors as Cox writing these useful books! (i'm in my early 20s but already start to feel over the hill..)
  
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #24 - 05/17/06 at 05:46:48
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there are plenty of opening books out there if you want to play second and third rate openings. you can play the BDG or the London if the main lines are too much. I am an IM and I will be getting this book.

hehe
  
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #23 - 05/17/06 at 04:35:04
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What concerns me is Cox's lines contain gambits which require White to put in a load of work to justify the loss of material, e.g. 4. Bd3 English Defence (a whole rook sac!), Rb1 Grunfeld (pawn sacs in many lines), Botvinnik/Moscow (don't get me started), even Slav Chebanenko if he recommends the Nxb5 sacrifices in the 6. c5 lines (which looks unavoidable if Black plays ...a5). those playing these lines should get a specialist book on each, subscribe to Chesspub, Informator and/or NIC. But still i'm happy someone finally got the courage to write this book. Khalifman ducked too many issues with 1. Nf3, and both Palliser and Dunnington were too extreme in opposite directions!

Oh, and i think the Tarrasch 12. Qa4 is a good choice, was fairly critical a few years ago, not sure if its so popular now, so all the better to spring on opponents.

And what is recommended against the Tango? hopefully Cox doesn't miss out on the Meran/Chebanenko hybrid 4... a6 5. e3 e6 (6. b3 or 6. c5?).   

ps this thread is going off-topic, so maybe the moderators can move the posts to the new thread on this book?
  
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #22 - 05/17/06 at 02:25:44
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I have to say that John Cox is tackling some topics in his opening books that most authors would probably rather avoid.

Alekhine (awkward, messy, too unexplored in places, "Burgess did it")
d4 Deviations (too many transpositions, boring, trifling, "Burgess did it (Torre Jungle Smiley)")

And I am happy that he chose to write about these topics (especially d4 deviations)!  His work is very readable, and I like his balance in detail in his choice of variations.

And now a repertoire book for 1.d4 (Starting out!?) recommending all these main lines...

I think you could write a book just cataloguing the main lines for discussion.  This certainly has my interest.  I can see the cut-and-paste option for the summary thoughout the book:  "Refer to the lastest New In Chess yearbooks and Informants."

Seriously, I do like the concept of summarizing the main lines.  This is something I feel is lacking in chess literature.  I think there are too many books that keep recommending auxiliary repertoire options to "surprise" the opponent.  Even though this will be a summary, it still seems rather ambitious.  Well, I look forward to seeing this book.
  

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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #21 - 05/15/06 at 15:14:53
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fluffy wrote on 05/15/06 at 13:18:33:
This is the Kramnik 1998 power opening repetoire!


yes indeed!~ But i wonder why several years later Kramnik switched to 1. e4...
also must say Rb1 Grunfeld and Rb1 Benko are not easy to learn, but maybe this is a personal feeling ( i find 7. Bc4 Grunfeld for example more narrow and thematic, also a Kramnik choice).
nevertheless i'm really looking forward to Cox's book! 

The Budapest line, as seen from Pein-Svidler, is the safe 4. Bf4 + Nbd2.   
  
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