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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Best versus Noteboom? (Read 40913 times)
rukh
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #50 - 12/10/11 at 20:13:52
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najdorfslayer
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #49 - 12/10/11 at 10:22:09
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Knowing Everyman and this book I would image its publication date has been put back to March 2015!  Grin
  
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Gorath
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #48 - 12/10/11 at 02:39:50
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Does anybody know the current status of Ruslan's book?
  
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Markovich
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #47 - 12/09/11 at 23:59:57
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I have the opinion thst the Noteboom must be better for White, I just don't know how. I think that the lines with Nd2 are promising. Best specialize in a given line, and having done so, use it to remove Black's scalp. Black has to know everything; you only have to know your line.

It's a fighting defense, so why object?
  

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derdudea
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #46 - 12/09/11 at 19:00:20
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fling wrote on 12/09/11 at 07:34:13:
I couldn't really find a consensus. Is the Noteboom really that strong for Black?




Simply yes. I played 16 corrchess games with the black pieces in the Noteboom in the last three years and won 9 with 7 draws. In none of those games White had anything. The losses usually came from "fighting" in positions that should be a draw.

3.Nf3 e6 4.Qc2 is good idea, but only if you play Nf3 variations against the QGD: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c6 and you need another weapon against the triangle.
  
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fling
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #45 - 12/09/11 at 07:34:13
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I couldn't really find a consensus. Is the Noteboom really that strong for Black?

I noticed some things, like Kasparov not allowing it since 1994, from what I could see in Mega Database. On the other hand, some strong player have played White against it this year, e.g. Kamsky, Vitiugov and Morozevich (well, that Moro plays something doesn't necessarily say anything about the theoretical status).

  
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MarinFan
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #44 - 10/16/06 at 12:31:48
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Hello,

Rowson seems to think this is a reasonable idea. In this year's Scottish championship he played it against one of his former coaches. The game is annotated in BCM, think Aug issue.

Bye John S

p.s 

In another thread I asked about 1.d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 pxp 5.a4 e6. In most high -level games recently this has transposed to a QGA type position, with 6.e3. However, what has happened in the 6e4 Bb4 lines. In the past, this was thought quite bad for black, based on some Alekhine games...
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #43 - 10/14/06 at 01:24:51
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Getting back to the subject of the original thread, I've always thought 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 c6 3.c4 e6 4.Nc3 dxc4 5.Bg5!? seems like a good practical try for White.  I say from the Black perspective; for about 4 years the Noteboom was my main defence to 1.d4, and I always thought this move was a bit uncomfortable.  Of course, that's because I had no intention of transposing into the main-line Botvinnik variation, so against other players it may not be so effective.

  
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slates
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #42 - 07/12/06 at 11:33:55
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My copy of John's book is shipping from Amazon UK today, apparently, although they show it as having 9 days leadtime to anyone else who goes to order it.  I suppose they must have got a copy from the US, although I only ordered it yesterday and it said 9 to 13 days delivery then.....?

I hope I can make more sense of it than Richard Palliser's Play 1d4!, which although a great book by all accounts (including my own view that it was exceptionally thorough), was a tad heavy for me.  Also the layout was pretty lousy - not Richard's fault, in an email he sent me he mentioned that he wasn't happy with the final layout, but that's the way it turned out and I think it may have deterred some players irrespective of the merits of the content.  Anyway, I'm hearing good things about this 'Starting Out' book so it may be easier for me to get to grips with despite it's advocacy of main lines, which I actually think is a great idea.  Perhaps someone could move this post to the other thread on John Cox's book, where it may be more appropriate, but I thought a direct response to the question of when the book was available in the UK was befitting here in view of the last post in this thread.
  
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IMJohnCox
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #41 - 07/12/06 at 09:50:21
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Kramnik's 7 Bb3 stuff.

I think the book is now out, at any rate in the US. We don't see it over here for another six weeks, though.
  
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Darthmambo
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #40 - 07/12/06 at 02:53:07
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Bayonet KID, Nf3/Rb1 Exchange Grunfeld, Modern main line Benoni, the fianchetto and Rb1 stuff against the Benko, Qc2 Nimzo, QGD Exchange with Nge2, the Slav with 6 Ne5, (or e3 then c5 against 4...a6) Botvinnik, Anti-Moscow and Marshall gambits, 5 Nbd2 against the Albin, the Tarrasch main line with 12 Qa4, 3 cxd5 against the Tschigorin and then bxc3 rather than the fashionable Bxc3. Oh and 4 Bd3 against the English Defence.

Generally the present day main lines in fact. It's a Starting Out book, mind,so no great pretensions to originality as opposed to showing existing theory and ofering general explanation.


Lol, you know there are just so many openings. What are you reconmending against the QGA?

Oh I think starting out books are great, and I am a d4 player so I cannot wait for this one to come out.
  
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fluffy
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #39 - 06/03/06 at 04:54:33
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um, does anyone have any suggestions vs the Noteboom? isn't that the topic of the thread? of course you can avoid it, but that is like saying play 3.Bb5+ in a thread about what to do for white in the Najdorf...
  
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lnn2
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #38 - 06/02/06 at 14:07:18
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Well said Markovich! On a related note,  i even suspect the gambit attempts 5. Qc2 and 5. Bg5 against the 4... a6 Chebanenko Slav is not as bad as they say, while i also think the  QGA 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 a6 gambit, the Botvinnik/Moscow Semi-Slav, and the QGD Vienna should all end up logically better for White on a "philosophical" level: straight development of pieces can't be wrong.

On the other hand, i've played all these dxc4 lines as Black too... so can only say, the better prepared player will prevail!
  
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Markovich
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #37 - 06/01/06 at 16:03:40
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Unless one's an ardent Exchange man, meeting 1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 with 3 Nf3 makes a lot of sense, if only so as to counter 3...c6!? with 4 Qc2 ! El Khalif gave this some coverage in his Kramnik repertoire and it's a reasonable try for the edge. White doesn't need to know much, only really one forcing line (4...Nf6 5 Bg5 Nbd7 6 e3 Qa5+!? 7 Nbd2 Ne4 8 Bf4 Bb4 9 a3 etc), although that may be Black's best option. FWIW, the more common ...dxc4 lines look quite pleasant for White to play IMHO.
Doesn't surprise me that White's struggling in the main line Noteboom, but is 11 d5!? (instead of 11 bxc4) also just dead? Objectively W can't force an advantage, but for aggressive white players it still looks like a reasonable practical try.


On a philosophical level (ha ha), it would surpise me very much if 1. d4 d5  2. c4 e6  3. Nc3 c6  4. Nf3 dxc4 were not better for White.  All White's moves have been so good, how can he possibly be worse than in the initial position?!  The idea that Black is doing well here reminds me of satirical piece that once appeared in the old Chess Life and Review, where a supposed theoretician of the far future wrote "Back in the days that we did not understand that the Queen's Gambit loses by force..."  

Yet I admit that I have no specific proposals to demonstrate White's advantage.
  

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IMRichardPalliser
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Re: Best versus Noteboom?
Reply #36 - 05/27/06 at 10:51:33
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Unless one's an ardent Exchange man, meeting 1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 with 3 Nf3 makes a lot of sense, if only so as to counter 3...c6!? with 4 Qc2 ! El Khalif gave this some coverage in his Kramnik repertoire and it's a reasonable try for the edge. White doesn't need to know much, only really one forcing line (4...Nf6 5 Bg5 Nbd7 6 e3 Qa5+!? 7 Nbd2 Ne4 8 Bf4 Bb4 9 a3 etc), although that may be Black's best option. FWIW, the more common ...dxc4 lines look quite pleasant for White to play IMHO.
Doesn't surprise me that White's struggling in the main line Noteboom, but is 11 d5!? (instead of 11 bxc4) also just dead? Objectively W can't force an advantage, but for aggressive white players it still looks like a reasonable practical try.
  
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