Poll
Poll closed Question: Prediction?
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*** This poll has now closed ***


Topalov wins    
  23 (29.1%)
Kramnik wins    
  37 (46.8%)
Draw    
  2 (2.5%)
Match gets cancelled    
  17 (21.5%)
other?...    
  0 (0.0%)




Total votes: 79
« Created by: OstapBender on: 05/25/06 at 17:35:43 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Kramnik-Topalov match (Read 89171 times)
MarinFan
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #139 - 09/26/06 at 09:25:37
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Hello,

  16 ... Bxd3 preparing f5 was a novelty in game 2. Before this game, thought Smyslov had shown this sort of Slav position to be ok for black. There are lots of places annotating these games but this one looks quite good.

http://chessmind.powerblogs.com/files/wcc2006_topalov_kramnik_2.htm

Bye John S
  
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Keano
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #138 - 09/26/06 at 07:33:44
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well we see the problem now in my opinion about the length of the match, lets hope there is still time for Toppy to come back and do the business, it seems clear he has the mark of Kramnik - he just needs to steady his nerves and start putting the points away. Its a big ask now but he still has (just) enough time to get some momentum going. I would say a draw with Black now is the best bet to steady the ship.
« Last Edit: 09/26/06 at 08:52:00 by Keano »  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #137 - 09/26/06 at 07:06:35
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Indeed.  Hopefully, Kramnik will heed his own advice and continue to press despite the match score, both to see some interesting games and also for his own sake: if he can go 3-0 Topalov will have a huge task, while if Topalov scores at all (even if just a bloodless draw) it will surely settle his nerves a bit and there is plenty of time left for him.

Is another Catalan in the cards?
  
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Klick
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #136 - 09/26/06 at 05:23:05
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Even though the score is 2-0 now I certainly think it is a lot of excitement to come in this match. I certainly look forward to today's game!
  

There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #135 - 09/26/06 at 05:02:38
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 09/26/06 at 04:20:52:
  Kramnik made mistakes, but to come back and win from such a horrible position took tremendous imagination and skill.


Well not really. Helped most in part by the even worse blunders by Topalov. Kramnik exploited them mercilessly. "one bad move negates 40 good ones" or something to that effect.



  

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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #134 - 09/26/06 at 04:20:52
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Game 2 should go down as one of the great games of all time.  Unfortunately, it won't. 

There are too many hacks out there who point out the errors that these two great players made, as pointed out by their computers.  At one point, Topalov had both Queen and Rook en prise, and was winning the game.  Kramnik made mistakes, but to come back and win from such a horrible position took tremendous imagination and skill.  Topalov is technically superb, as we should remember from his perfomance at San Luis.  Yet Kramnik made it seem that if Topalov doesn't win in the middle game, he will lose.

I have a side note....

I play the Slav Defense quite regularly, and predicted we wouldn't see it in this match because of its complexity.  I was proven completely wrong, but I have never seen ...f5 played in the position Kramnik had.   

Was this a novelty, or just a really rare idea?   

And whose idea was it anyway? 

It looked terrible even before Topalov responded!

I know, this topic could be addressed in the Slav section, but I believe it's of general interest now that it's become part of chess lore.

I still hope that Burgess, Emms and Nunn consider this in their next edition of The Mammoth Book of the World's Greatest Chess Games.
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #133 - 09/25/06 at 23:50:49
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Let me just say that I voted for Kramnik to win. What is surprising is I did not expect him to win in such a fasion. After having a day to digest what has happened and reading some of the above replies I have come to a conclusion on Toppa. HE SHOULD NOT CHANGE ANYTHING! As pointed out above once he is able to stop the blundering he will be fine. So long as Toppa sticks to his guns and keeps his cool look for him to close the gap.
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #132 - 09/25/06 at 21:57:47
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What is up with Topalov's play in the first two games?  He had a draw in the first game yet played on till his position was a wreck.  Then over pressed his attack in game two yet again... leaving his position in shambles.

The tension at the match must be extreme combined with Topalov either thinking Kramnik will start to crack.... or he doesn't respect Kramniks prowess i can't figure it out...
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #131 - 09/25/06 at 18:48:19
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Topalov doesn't need to change anything. To do blunders and miss opportunities has nothing to do with style or opening choices.
  

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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #130 - 09/25/06 at 17:58:29
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Sorry, in game 2 I didn´t saw Kramnik having opening problems or being outplayed by Topalov.
In fact, Black´s position around move 20 seems pretty okay, Kramnik had equalized in a sharp position.
Probably Kramnik didn´t want to go for a drawish line and overestimated his winning chances! 
And so he took the a4 pawn while it might have been better to play Rec8 first. I also interpret 31...Bxf8(??) instead of 31...Kxf8 
as playing for a win instead of taking a draw. (Of course I cannot say if 31...Kxf8 would really draw, the play remains really difficult). 
Okay, later on Kramnik terribly blundered. But so did Topalov, too. 
Topalov made the first mistake (!! to let Kramnik equalize out of the opening !!) and the last deciding one. 
Inbetween he had a winning position for some moves, but I do not think that Topalov deserved the win more than Kramnik.

I see no reason for Kramnik to abandon the Open Slav. I expect a further Catalan in game 3 
and a further Open Slav in game 4 (with Topalov deviating first!). With Kramnik scoring 1.5 points out of these!
From then on Topalov will switch to Modern Benoni and 1.e4 . 
But it won´t help him. Kramnik will win the match with game 10 (or even earlier).

tracke  Smiley

PS: Has anyone noticed that I am a Kramnik fan ?!  Wink
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #129 - 09/25/06 at 17:45:43
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In principle, Topalov's match strategy is both good and correct.  In practice, it is slightly off the mark and needs some fine tunings.  It is the double-edged nature of his strategy that has produced 2 losses.  Just a slight tweaking in his form and he will turn those frowns  Embarrassed...upside down  Smiley!  I expect he is emotionally and mentally just fine--he knows how it goes sometimes when you live on the razor's edge.  Besides he has a whole army in Elista to support him and keep his confidence up!

I like Kramnik's strategy with black vs. d4.  I think he is trying to skip around Topalov's prowess in deep, thorough preparation by mixing it up, we'll see of course as the match unfolds.  I expect Kramnik came to Elista armed with ideas in the QGA (Rublevsky), Nimzo (Motylev), QID, QGD, Slav (maybe from previous work w/Bareev), and Semi-Slav.  In fact, if I were Toppy, I would start out the same: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nc3 Nf6 and give 4.e3 a try angling for a Meran or Anti-Meran Qc2.  I wouldn't be suprised though if Kramnik chooses a totally different defence for game 4.

Will 1.e4 be played in this match at all? Kramnik won't play it being up 2-0, so its a question if Topalov has anything up his sleeve vs. the Petroff.  Should be interesting.  This match is NOT OVER YET.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #128 - 09/25/06 at 11:49:10
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Quote:
I am convinced that only very few player are able to create such an attack as Topalov did. And only few would have survived this game aginst him.


Well, Toppy did whip up a nice attack, but it's hard to imagine any other GM failing to put the point away. Rxg4+ and then Qc7 is a rather obvious idea - so how could he fail to see it?? So far, it seems to me that Kramnik has just put his boots out and Topalov has self destructed all on his own... 

So far he tries to complicate as much as possible - which could be a good strategy against Kramnik, but at some point you must stop complicating and reap the harvest, be it win or draw. 

I hope he'll come back, but at the moment it looks like 7-0 in the making.  Sad

After losing when he should've drawn and then lose when he should've won I'd guess that Toppy is rather despondent by now. So, a quick draw in game three may the wisest move for him, but Kramnik would probably be reluctant to allow him to repair his ego...
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #127 - 09/25/06 at 11:21:55
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TalJechin wrote on 09/25/06 at 08:55:14:
It looks more and more like a Coffee House Championship! It could be 'cause they have less time to think, but it's probably mostly due to the live audience on the net having easy access to e.g. fritz and Nalimov's endgame tablebase. Anyway, the contestants of a WC-match have never looked so human before...  Undecided



You got some points but I still disagree here. Of corse there happened mistakes in the endgame. But first of all after a very exhausting battle of high level. Secondly and more important if you would analyse the Kasparov Korpov or short Kasparov battles with today chessengines this games will also look very human.
I am not happy either that the money for this match comes from K.I. but the chess of this two games is far away from coffehouse chess.

The diffrence to other WC is  the games are more Tactical as others (maybe with the exception of Short Kasparov) but does this make it coffehouse chess? Of course not. I am convinced that only very few player are able to create such an attack as Topalov did. And only few would have survived this game aginst him. (in both games)

This two games is what the chess audiance has asked for a long time - This was fighting chess and not tactical draws!

  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #126 - 09/25/06 at 08:58:15
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I really don't mind. Great chess + mistakes makes for good excitement and entertainment.
  

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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #125 - 09/25/06 at 08:55:14
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It looks more and more like a Coffee House Championship! It could be 'cause they have less time to think, but it's probably mostly due to the live audience on the net having easy access to e.g. fritz and Nalimov's endgame tablebase. Anyway, the contestants of a WC-match have never looked so human before...  Undecided
  
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