Poll
Poll closed Question: Prediction?
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*** This poll has now closed ***


Topalov wins    
  23 (29.1%)
Kramnik wins    
  37 (46.8%)
Draw    
  2 (2.5%)
Match gets cancelled    
  17 (21.5%)
other?...    
  0 (0.0%)




Total votes: 79
« Created by: OstapBender on: 05/25/06 at 17:35:43 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Kramnik-Topalov match (Read 88978 times)
Viking
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #289 - 10/02/06 at 10:07:10
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Klick wrote on 10/02/06 at 08:11:48:
From what I hear Topalov is willing to concede 3-1 in exchange for the match going 14 games instead of 12..

Where have u "heard" that this is an option?
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #288 - 10/02/06 at 09:57:55
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Opinion on Spassky's behaviour is more divided. Eg Donner claims it having to with Spassky trying to regain his form and getting away from Korchnoi's presence (there are various instances in which a player appears "hypnotised" by his opponent).


Well, something like that was Spassky's official excuse (if you buy it is another matter - the effect was that Kortchnoi played worse (blundering away his queen like a beginner e.g. in game 13 I think) not Spassky playing better...) - still it doesn't explain why he'd strut around on the scene in goggles and/or with big silvery shades on etc, exciting the audience while Kortchnoi was thinking...
  
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Willempie
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #287 - 10/02/06 at 09:09:09
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TalJechin wrote on 10/02/06 at 08:45:30:

For perhaps the first time ever, I completely agree with Top. 

And if Tölpalov wins by default I hope he won't be invited to any major events for a long time to come. At least it may not be easy to find any sponsors for an event with him in it... (except perhaps for companies producing a certain sanitary equipment. And being the man who gave the toilet a face could be proper punishment!)

He is already contracted for Corus and I must say I am looking forward to see him PLAY there.
Quote:

On the topic of matches with a forfeit, the closest similarity would probably be Spassky-Kortchnoi in '77. Where Spassky forfeited a game but Kortchnoi proved he was the bigger man by allowing the game to be replayed. There were other similarities as well, Viktor had a big lead and Boris tried all kinds of clownery and psych-attempts to get closer - which payed off as he almost equalised.

Opinion on Spassky's behaviour is more divided. Eg Donner claims it having to with Spassky trying to regain his form and getting away from Korchnoi's presence (there are various instances in which a player appears "hypnotised" by his opponent).
Quote:

Anyway, I haven't seen anything about 3-1 for 14 games - the only official news state that the 6th game will be played today (i.e. 3-2), and then I suppose Kramnik will go home.

Perhaps a compromise could be to postpone the decision of game 5 - and after 11 games played, it could be played if it matters or just given to Tölpalov if Kramnik still has a 2 point lead.

We'll see. 
And then the next problem will occur a few days later...
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Keano
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #286 - 10/02/06 at 08:47:19
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Willempie - I completely agree. We have had both players issue statements to the effect of "I may not continue in this match unless such and such happens". There have been mistakes made by all parties in this in my opinion - first the Topalov complaint and threat to pull out, then the appeals committee botching things up, then Kramnik deciding to do a sit in in his rest room and saying he will not continue!.
Anyway, for future matches there should be a specific clause: "No player may threaten to withdraw from the match unless certain demands of his are met". Or something to this effect. 

Incidentally - if it is true that Kramnik can still get 3-1 in a 14 game match then I think he would be mad not to jump at this, otherwise the reality is he has just given up a full point for nothing.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #285 - 10/02/06 at 08:45:30
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TopNotch wrote on 10/02/06 at 07:16:32:

Kramnik is already champion in my eyes, and as much as I wanted Topalov to win I have now lost all respect for him. 


For perhaps the first time ever, I completely agree with Top. 

And if Tölpalov wins by default I hope he won't be invited to any major events for a long time to come. At least it may not be easy to find any sponsors for an event with him in it... (except perhaps for companies producing a certain sanitary equipment. And being the man who gave the toilet a face could be proper punishment!)


On the topic of matches with a forfeit, the closest similarity would probably be Spassky-Kortchnoi in '77. Where Spassky forfeited a game but Kortchnoi proved he was the bigger man by allowing the game to be replayed. There were other similarities as well, Viktor had a big lead and Boris tried all kinds of clownery and psych-attempts to get closer - which payed off as he almost equalised.


Anyway, I haven't seen anything about 3-1 for 14 games - the only official news state that the 6th game will be played today (i.e. 3-2), and then I suppose Kramnik will go home.

Perhaps a compromise could be to postpone the decision of game 5 - and after 11 games played, it could be played if it matters or just given to Tölpalov if Kramnik still has a 2 point lead.
  
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Willempie
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #284 - 10/02/06 at 08:13:45
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TopNotch wrote on 10/02/06 at 07:55:18:
Fischer's case keeps being cited as a comparison but in reality the circumstances were far different with the only common link being that there was a forfeit involved.   

Plus it had a rather averse effect on Spassky. I doubt this will happen to Topalov.
Quote:

Rumor has it Topalov's team is now suggesting a longer match in exchange for a 3-1 start. Abandonment or extension was probably what Topalov's team had in mind when filing the complaint in the first place.

Ok....enough conjecture we will know in a few hours if we have a match or not.

Stay tuned as the plot thickens.

Topster Smiley
 

I have no clue anymore on what will happen and despite me finding FIDE a guilty part I still feel the players themselves are mostly to blame for this mess. It's one thing to play psychological warfare, it is another to endanger the whole match for it. Even Korchnoi never let that happen in any of his matches and he has protested against about anything.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Klick
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #283 - 10/02/06 at 08:11:48
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From what I hear Topalov is willing to concede 3-1 in exchange for the match going 14 games instead of 12. Sounds like a reasonable deal to me.
  

There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
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Keano
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #282 - 10/02/06 at 08:02:49
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I doubt Kramnik will go for the longer match, although it is tricky - an extra point helps!
What surprises me is that a 12 game match was agreed by both parties in the first place - I mentioned ages ago the posibility of a nervy start (as has happened) and then the fact there is not enough time to settle into the match. 

In my opinion Danailov did not do Topalov any favours agreeing to a 12 game match in the first place - Topalov is well known for his stamina and for his ability to finish strongly, a 12 game match was always going to favour Kramnik.

It would amaze me though, if somehow the length of the match was now changed in the midst of this fiasco.
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #281 - 10/02/06 at 07:55:18
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Fischer's case keeps being cited as a comparison but in reality the circumstances were far different with the only common link being that there was a forfeit involved.   

Rumor has it Topalov's team is now suggesting a longer match in exchange for a 3-1 restart. Abandonment or extension was probably what Topalov's team had in mind when filing the complaint in the first place.

Ok....enough conjecture we will know in a few hours if we have a match or not.

Stay tuned as the plot thickens.

Topster Smiley

 
« Last Edit: 10/02/06 at 12:53:49 by TopNotch »  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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Keano
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #280 - 10/02/06 at 07:35:17
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My opinion about this whole fiasco is that I have deep sympathy for Kramnik. Nevertheless, despite letters of various GMs who seem not to live in the real world, now that he has forfeited a game, that game cannot be given back. Morally Kramnik is on high ground, but the simple fact is he took a decision not to turn up for a game, now he has to accept that.
If someone came up with a magic wand to put time back and make the score 3-1 it simply wouldnt hold up as Topalovs team could make a legal challenge (quite successfully I would have thought). In fact it would be an unprecedented action.

Lets face it this whole thing is a sorry mess, FIDE cannot be trusted to run a match like this. I only hope that Kramnik decides to continue with the score as 3-2, after all he is still winning! As someone mentioned Fischer defaulted and was 2-0 down but came back, the effect of Kramniks default is to make Topalovs comeback a lot easier, but theoretically the best player should still win.

  
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TopNotch
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #279 - 10/02/06 at 07:16:32
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Has Kasparov had anything to say about all this so far?

It would be interesting to hear his thoughts.

Regarding officials making blatant errors that effect the outcome of a sporting contest of the kind mentioned in that football match. I think the days of such erroneous results standing will come to an end soon, since the advancement in technology that allows umpires, referees and the public to scrutinize, replay and analyse events will not tolerate gross ineptitude for long.

Kramnik is already champion in my eyes, and as much as I wanted Topalov to win I have now lost all respect for him. Desperation is never an attractive quality and almost always brings out the worse in a person.

Is saving a match by any means neccessary really worth it?

Lastly should the match be abandoned at this point with Topalov down 3-1, does that make him a legitimate champion or simply a paper champion of the Kasimdzhanov kind. One thing is clear, Kramnik still holds a hex over him.

Tops Smiley

  

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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #278 - 10/02/06 at 05:06:55
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Topalov can redeem himself by resigning after move 1 if there is a technicality hitch with 3:1 and Kramnik can agree to play 14 games. Well... day dreaming
  

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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #277 - 10/02/06 at 05:00:09
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Very exciting!  Looks like we'll finally get more top notch chess. While I still find the last several days ridiculous (to say the least), I have to give FIDE credit. Forcing the resignation of the appeals committee and reversing their decision were necessary and logically correct. Kramnik's forfeit really does have to stand (as much as I hate to admit it), as this is the only appropriate or logical continuation. This actually is very reminiscent of the recent Oklahoma - Oregon (american) football game where the refs clearly made an erroneous call (or 3) and because of this Oklahoma lost the game. The NCAA appologized, suspended the refs, but upheld the result of the game. Ii have never been a fan of Kirsan's, but he has sorted out a seemingly impossible mess. As long as the games go on, he should certainly be congratulated. 

SL
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #276 - 10/02/06 at 04:18:07
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Apparently Kramnik has brought Svidler and Bareev to join his Elista team, which may be an indication that he intends to play allow Topalov his undeserved forfeit point and play game 6:

http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2006/10/game-6-showdown.html

If indeed Kramnik takes the high road here (i.e., accepts the forfeit and plays game 6) I think it speaks highly of his character.  Events which have transpired thus far, of course, already speak volumes about Topalov's character — he has none!  Angry

I still hope that Topalov might redeem himself and accept continuation of the match at game 5 (if such an option still exists).  For good measure, he should also fire that weasel (words I would like to use here would all be censored!) Danailov and publicly appologize to Kramnik.
  

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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #275 - 10/02/06 at 03:34:08
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I missed this post earlier, and I wholeheartedly agree, the only question left to be pondered now is indeed the nature of the hallucinogen being smoked. Another plausible explanation could be that some posters have been abducted by Bulgarian terrorists and forced on pain of death to type pro Topalov sentiment.


Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Options:

1-This guys are from another world or naives? 

2-Bulgarians?

3-Lots of ganja and hallucinogen? 

4-Kidnaped by Bulgarian terrorists?

5-Spirits of contradiction?

6-Cannot read a text or understand it? 

7-Think that whole world is wrong and they are right?
  

It has been said that chess players are good at two things, Chess and Excuses.  It has also been said that Chess is where all excuses fail! In order to win you must dare to fail!
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