Poll
Poll closed Question: Prediction?
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*** This poll has now closed ***


Topalov wins    
  23 (29.1%)
Kramnik wins    
  37 (46.8%)
Draw    
  2 (2.5%)
Match gets cancelled    
  17 (21.5%)
other?...    
  0 (0.0%)




Total votes: 79
« Created by: OstapBender on: 05/25/06 at 17:35:43 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Kramnik-Topalov match (Read 89160 times)
IMJohnCox
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #304 - 10/02/06 at 12:37:25
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I will be surprised if Kramnik doesn't go to court if the missing game proves decisive. Let's hope it doesn't.

I really think Topalov has shown himself the biggest scumbag in world championship history. I've been mentally reviewing some of the efforts we've seen, and I'm not sure even Petrosian or Alekhine can challenge him.

A propos of this drivel from Danailov about Kramnik insulting Topalov by talking about the Champions League, anyone remember Tal talking about his famous Bxf6 (or do I mean f4?) against Botvinnik? 'Strange as it may sound, during such an important game I began to be troubled by the question, will my wife and I manage to get to the theatre on time?'. I don't remember Botters bleating about this showing arrogance.
  
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Willempie
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #303 - 10/02/06 at 12:30:23
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TalJechin wrote on 10/02/06 at 11:57:43:
Willempie wrote on 10/02/06 at 11:12:13:

Wasnt Keene his second?
Donner didnt think much of Korchnoi's English seconds either (chesswise excellent otherwise bad). Wink


I saw a review of Donner's The King which made me tempted to get it, and I'll probably will if the book ever cross my path. But my general impression was that Donner didn't think much of anyone, including himself...  Wink

It is mainly dutchmen which earn his scorn Grin
Quote:

Btw, sure Keene was VK's second but at least he was there at the time and not in Dutchland. Smiley 

Very true, but that doesnt make it more reliable. I am fairly sure we will get wildly differing descriptions from the insiders about toiletgate.
Quote:

Besides, in an interview after the match Spassky blamed his loss in the last game on the arbiter(!) since he 1) was looking at him during the match and 2) he conveyed a draw offer from VK...

Yep chessplayers are weird Grin
Quote:

Anyway, nice to see that Kramnik-Tölpalov is on again - maybe they'll even manage to produce a good game eventually!  Grin

Looks a bit boring atm Undecided
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Keano
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #302 - 10/02/06 at 12:29:32
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Well John I am not a legal expert but as I said before in practical terms Kramnik has little choice since who wants to withdraw from a match and enter legal wranglings? In any case he has left the legal option open by saying he wants his rights regarding game 5 "clarified later". To a non legal man like me I would have thought he had little chance of getting anything out of it, but if you say different... 

As it stands though, remember he is still winning the match! This psychological pressure lark is a nice card if he wants to play it, but the reality is they are both under great psychological pressure - Topalov moreso because he must come from behind. If Kramnik draws todays game it should steady things nicely for him and he can regroup - in his own mind he´ll have already written the forfeited game off as he has to in order to play his best (later if things go wrong his team can come back to that).
  
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IMJohnCox
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #301 - 10/02/06 at 12:04:59
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Good grief. I am amazed. If Kramnik can pull this off from here after the way he's been shat upon, it will be a staggering achievement.

Now I've found it, I don't see there's much scope for argument about the contract. Each player is entitled to a restroom and toilet (obviously their own, not a common one), and that's that. As they have been at world championships for at least 20 years. Nothing gives the Appeal Committee any right to change that. And if there was any doubt, 3.18.3 removes it. Once the Committee has approved the tournament hall and facilities, no protest about them shall be accepted. That blog link to the chap arguing that the committee can change the facilities to regulate behaviour - well frankly I think the guy is smoking dope. And once you accept that the contract is being violated of course Kramnik is entitled to refuse to play.

And Topalov - honestly, I can't find the words. It would be wonderful if Corus and the rest ceased to invite him, though they won't, of course.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #300 - 10/02/06 at 11:57:43
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Willempie wrote on 10/02/06 at 11:12:13:

Wasnt Keene his second?
Donner didnt think much of Korchnoi's English seconds either (chesswise excellent otherwise bad). Wink


I saw a review of Donner's The King which made me tempted to get it, and I'll probably will if the book ever cross my path. But my general impression was that Donner didn't think much of anyone, including himself...  Wink

Btw, sure Keene was VK's second but at least he was there at the time and not in Dutchland. Smiley 

Besides, in an interview after the match Spassky blamed his loss in the last game on the arbiter(!) since he 1) was looking at him during the match and 2) he conveyed a draw offer from VK...


Anyway, nice to see that Kramnik-Tölpalov is on again - maybe they'll even manage to produce a good game eventually!  Grin
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #299 - 10/02/06 at 11:39:07
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Klick wrote on 10/02/06 at 11:02:17:
The game has started! Did they shake hands?


I don't know about that. But I heard, for a fee of $100000, Topalov kindly consented to annotate game 5 for informator. NIC missed the bus.
  

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Willempie
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #298 - 10/02/06 at 11:12:13
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TalJechin wrote on 10/02/06 at 10:38:29:
Willempie wrote on 10/02/06 at 10:07:46:
TalJechin wrote on 10/02/06 at 09:57:55:
Quote:
Opinion on Spassky's behaviour is more divided. Eg Donner claims it having to with Spassky trying to regain his form and getting away from Korchnoi's presence (there are various instances in which a player appears "hypnotised" by his opponent).


Well, something like that was Spassky's official excuse (if you buy it is another matter - the effect was that Kortchnoi played worse (blundering away his queen like a beginner e.g. in game 13 I think) not Spassky playing better...) - still it doesn't explain why he'd strut around on the scene in goggles and/or with big silvery shades on etc, exciting the audience while Kortchnoi was thinking...

While I love Korchnoi's match attitude, he always seems to get himself into trouble when everything is going smoothly. With Spassky the trouble started when the match was all but over, similar with Petrosjan. Plus Spassky's behaviour usually has been quite examplary (ie I would have quit the match against Fischer on numerous occasions) and when someone like Donner who knows both of them thinks Spassky didnt do it to annoy Korchnoi, I have little reason to doubt that.


Well, the problems began at game ten, when Kortchnoi became 5-0 up, and then Spassky went on to win 4 in a row... Spassky may not have been himself - as he probably realised what was left of his chess career was about to be snuffed out, and the soviet athorities probably pressured him to get ugly as VK had defected only a year earlier and VK had already eliminated Polugajevskij and Petrosian in the cycle.

I haven't seen Donner's impressions of what happened but I have Keene's book on the match - which among other things contains the Arbiter's Report, which speaks for itself by just giving the facts without interpretation.

Wasnt Keene his second?
Donner didnt think much of Korchnoi's English seconds either (chesswise excellent otherwise bad). Wink
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Keano
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #297 - 10/02/06 at 11:03:28
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The game is on - a Slav, back to chess, at last! A miracle...
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #296 - 10/02/06 at 11:02:17
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The game has started! Did they shake hands?


Quote:
Open Letter of Support to Vladimir Kramnik from Grandmaster Colleagues.

October 2, 2006

Dear Vladimir,

We are writing as a small group of Grandmasters, but we believe that we represent the views of the vast majority of our colleagues. We simply wanted to let you know that we think you have suffered a gross injustice, and that you have our support.

We appreciate that you are now under immense psychological pressure, and that it must be difficult to continue to play well in the context of such blatant bias, unfairness, and hostility.

Good luck in the days ahead. If you manage to win in these circumstances you will be a worthy champion indeed.

Best wishes,

GM Jonathan Rowson (Scotland)
GM Peter Heine Nielsen (Denmark)
GM Magnus Carlsen (Norway)
GM Jan Gustafsson (Germany)
GM Tomi Nyback (Finland)
GM Luke McShane (England)
GM Loek Van Wely (Netherlands)
  

There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
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Keano
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #295 - 10/02/06 at 10:51:38
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Quote:
To FIDE President H.E. Kirsan Iljumshinov To WCC Appeals Committee 

Official statement and protest on the decision made by FIDE 

On 2 October 2006 my manager received the following decision from FIDE: 

“Tomorrow, 2 October 2006, at 15.00, the 6th Game of the World Chess Championship Match a Topalov-Kramnik with the score 3:2 in favour of Kramnik, will take place.” 

Based on this decision I make the following statement: 

1. I inform that I am ready to proceed playing the match by reserving all my rights. My further participation will be subject to the condition to clarify my rights regarding game 5 at later stage. 

2. I do not agree with the decision made by FIDE and I formally protest against it. The decisions made on my requests, especially - the resignation of the Appeals Committee - open the toilets to the restrooms again are chrystal clear admissions of FIDE of having taken a false decision. Logically FIDE admits herewith that it was a mistake to start game 5 by violating the rules and regulations of the competition and by changing the agreed playing rules and conditions during the match without my approval. 

3. I deeply regret the unsportsmanlike and unequaled behaviour of my opponent whom FIDE donated a victory outside of the board by using dirty tricks. 

4. High level functionaries inside FIDE once again were making the professional part of the chess world a disgraceful playground of their own interests. I strongly believe and hope that the course of these events made it obvious to everyone that drastic changes with regard to the professional management structures inside FIDE are evident. 

By deciding just a couple of hours ago I had to assess between my personal interests and the interests of the entire chess world. It is very difficult to play under these circumstances. But I came to the conclusion to proceed under protest because I do not want to disappoint the overwhelming majority of the chess fans which are hoping for the unification since so many years. 

I also had in mind the people of Kalmykia which are doing their utmost to organize this match on the highest level possible. 

Last but not least I would like to thank very much for all the support I experienced during these days. 

Elista, 2 October 2006 

Vladimir Kramnik Classical World Chess Champion


We have a chess match  Smiley
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #294 - 10/02/06 at 10:48:03
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15 minutes from the start of the match and the world awaits with bated breath now...
Kirsan's latest statement says "I think that Kramnik and Topalov should put their ambitions aside and sit down to the chess board, in order to prove who is stronger, and who is more worthy to bear the title of the Absolute World Chess Champion!"
This statement is wholly inconsistent with his decision on 3-2, but is not the first time he's contradicted himself. A few days ago he says the issue is not legal but political, but then we now know he consults his lawyers!
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #293 - 10/02/06 at 10:38:29
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Willempie wrote on 10/02/06 at 10:07:46:
TalJechin wrote on 10/02/06 at 09:57:55:
Quote:
Opinion on Spassky's behaviour is more divided. Eg Donner claims it having to with Spassky trying to regain his form and getting away from Korchnoi's presence (there are various instances in which a player appears "hypnotised" by his opponent).


Well, something like that was Spassky's official excuse (if you buy it is another matter - the effect was that Kortchnoi played worse (blundering away his queen like a beginner e.g. in game 13 I think) not Spassky playing better...) - still it doesn't explain why he'd strut around on the scene in goggles and/or with big silvery shades on etc, exciting the audience while Kortchnoi was thinking...

While I love Korchnoi's match attitude, he always seems to get himself into trouble when everything is going smoothly. With Spassky the trouble started when the match was all but over, similar with Petrosjan. Plus Spassky's behaviour usually has been quite examplary (ie I would have quit the match against Fischer on numerous occasions) and when someone like Donner who knows both of them thinks Spassky didnt do it to annoy Korchnoi, I have little reason to doubt that.


Well, the problems began at game ten, when Kortchnoi became 5-0 up, and then Spassky went on to win 4 in a row... Spassky may not have been himself - as he probably realised what was left of his chess career was about to be snuffed out, and the soviet athorities probably pressured him to get ugly as VK had defected only a year earlier and VK had already eliminated Polugajevskij and Petrosian in the cycle.

I haven't seen Donner's impressions of what happened but I have Keene's book on the match - which among other things contains the Arbiter's Report, which speaks for itself by just giving the facts without interpretation.
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #292 - 10/02/06 at 10:33:06
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Within the next half hour we will know if the match continues or ... eeh.. goes down the drain..

Viking: I picked it up on ICC, might of course just be rumours. Anyway, now we know that the starting-point of todays 'game' will be 3-2.
  

There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
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Keano
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #291 - 10/02/06 at 10:24:01
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On a minor point of order - havent they got the colours the wrong way around on the TWIC site? Topalov is due White in game six correct?

Interesting to see what Kramnik does now - he has two choices:

1) withdraw from the match and investigate legal option (everything here depends on his case so he would have to be pretty sure, and it looks very murky to me since in the meantime Topalov is champ)

2) Accept that he has blown away a point, and continue the match now that he has his beloved toilet and a new appeals committee.

From a practical point of view (and monetary one as well we presume) it seems he has to go for number 2  Huh
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #290 - 10/02/06 at 10:07:46
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TalJechin wrote on 10/02/06 at 09:57:55:
Quote:
Opinion on Spassky's behaviour is more divided. Eg Donner claims it having to with Spassky trying to regain his form and getting away from Korchnoi's presence (there are various instances in which a player appears "hypnotised" by his opponent).


Well, something like that was Spassky's official excuse (if you buy it is another matter - the effect was that Kortchnoi played worse (blundering away his queen like a beginner e.g. in game 13 I think) not Spassky playing better...) - still it doesn't explain why he'd strut around on the scene in goggles and/or with big silvery shades on etc, exciting the audience while Kortchnoi was thinking...

While I love Korchnoi's match attitude, he always seems to get himself into trouble when everything is going smoothly. With Spassky the trouble started when the match was all but over, similar with Petrosjan. Plus Spassky's behaviour usually has been quite examplary (ie I would have quit the match against Fischer on numerous occasions) and when someone like Donner who knows both of them thinks Spassky didnt do it to annoy Korchnoi, I have little reason to doubt that.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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