Poll
Poll closed Question: Prediction?
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Topalov wins    
  23 (29.1%)
Kramnik wins    
  37 (46.8%)
Draw    
  2 (2.5%)
Match gets cancelled    
  17 (21.5%)
other?...    
  0 (0.0%)




Total votes: 79
« Created by: OstapBender on: 05/25/06 at 17:35:43 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Kramnik-Topalov match (Read 88838 times)
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #79 - 09/18/06 at 11:46:30
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IMJohnCox: Most chess fans choose favorite players because of the games, not beacuse of politics or personalities. Topalov plays attractive chess. That's why he has fans. (Kramnik also plays attractive chess, albeit in a different  style.)

Also, I don't think the San Luis style tournamnet is nonsense. The previous FIDE format with blitz games deciding most matches was nonsense. San Luis is also far better than hand-picking challengers. The best is probably the old format of interzonals et c to select a challenger, but that is not practical anymore.
  

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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #78 - 09/18/06 at 10:35:25
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Smyslov-fan, by the way, a point of order. I think Onischuk is helping Topalov, not Kramnik.
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #77 - 09/18/06 at 09:59:49
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I thought Ilyumzhinov had long ago suspended Kalmykia’s parliament? Actually, on reflection I think he only suspended elections to it – an important distinction.

In reply to various people, sure I don’t expect Topalov to come out and slag Ilyumzhinov the way he deserves. But he didn’t have to produce a statement in support of him at the recent elections. Anand didn’t. Leko didn’t. In fact, no-one else who matters did.

As to Topalov being a gentleman, I suggest any Topalov fans read Danailov’s comments (doubtless approved by his master) in his notorious post-San-Luis interview about Morozevich and Kazim. If they remain Topalov fans, good luck to them.

I’ve never understood this nonsense about Kramnik not ‘giving’ Kasparov a rematch and ‘dodging challenges’. First off, they signed a contract for the match which didn’t include a rematch clause, as it could have done. Secondly, Kramnik quite rightly in my opinion said that his priority was to reunite the titles after the 1993 schism. The only reason there wasn’t a rematch within the process that was agreed upon to achieve that is that for whatever reason Kasparov-Ponomariov and then Kasparov-Kasimdzhanov never happened. That wasn’t Kramnik’s fault.

Shirov of course was abysmally treated and indeed abysmally advised (indeed not advised at all, presumably) when he signed the contract for Caorle. In the end though if there is truly no-one who will sponsor a match then what can you do? I don’t know that any of us would have done much different from Kramnik, and I don’t know anyone either who seriously imagines that Shirov would have stood a chance against Kasparov.

Anyway the main reason to support Kramnik is that Topalov has made it clear that if he wins it’s the end of the classical match tradition, except for freak shows like his projected payday match with Radjabov. 

The position if Kramnik wins is less clear. Has he agreed to play Radjabov instead of Topalov? I don’t know. One has the impression that Kramnik too has agreed to participate in the next San Luis-style nonsense, but I live in hope. For one thing, Ilyumzhinov doesn’t seem too interested in arranging the matches to find out who’s going to play at the next San Luis. I suspect he’s hanging fire until he sees who wins. If Topalov does, Kramnik’s in the cold and Ilyumzhinov’s got the control he wants, and maybe we will see the candidates matches. If Kramnik wins I’m not sure things’ll be so clear. I hope not, anyway – if I was Kramnik I’d say you can arrange what tournaments you like (hey, let’s call them Candidates tournaments), and if the winner wants to play me for the title I’ll do it.

  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #76 - 09/18/06 at 08:57:01
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Quote:
He moved deputies out of Kalmykia’s parliament and ordered it to be completely refurbished to stage the championship games.


  

There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #75 - 09/18/06 at 08:52:28
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Did I read correctly that they play in parliament? Shocked
Not that it is in use anyway.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #74 - 09/18/06 at 05:26:02
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #73 - 09/18/06 at 04:30:03
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Chessy, 

You make some excellent points about the players' seconds.  I am more impressed with Kramnik's team than Topalov's.  I believe that Onischuk and Rublyevsky are excellent theoreticians who will definitely have a say in Kramnik's opening repertoire.

Onischuk was (briefly) a resident of Denver, Colorado.  So now I have a weak local tie to the World Champion!  Anyone who has followed world championship matches knows the importance of seconds that the player can trust and that has interesting insights into positions that complement the player's style.  

You're probably right to predict 1.e4 from Karmnik, at least some of the time.  You may also see some interesting Sicilians.  I think that Kramnik's choice of seconds makes it even less likely that we'll see the Berlin defense again.

I'd like to see some Slavs but I don't really expect it in this match unless the score gets lopsided.  
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #72 - 09/18/06 at 04:26:11
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chessy wrote on 09/18/06 at 01:26:28:

Or is the opening repetoir of the seconds not that important and they just try to find new ideas in Kramniks/Topalovs repetoir?


Indeed, in the 2000 match Bareev was in charge of Kramnik's Berlin defence, an opening he plays neither with black nor with white.  Furthermore, if I recall from one of his interviews, he was absolutely disgusted with this opening line!
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #71 - 09/18/06 at 01:26:28
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OK the seconds of both player are (mostly) e4 player with white.

Does this means we will see only e4 games?

Kramnik Secondas have all the slave in their repertour and are general rather Sicilian players than e5 players.

Does this mean we wont see a petrov?

Or is the opening repetoir of the seconds not that important and they just try to find new ideas in Kramniks/Topalovs repetoir?
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #70 - 09/16/06 at 15:32:38
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It would be too easy for me to condemn anyone who has anything to do with FIDE or the "kleptocrat" Ilyumzhinov.  But wouldn't that mean that anyone with a FIDE rating or who has acknowledged receiving a title from the organization is also tainted?

I don't really think the above statement is true, but morality is easy at a distance.  I have voted and asked others to vote against supporting FIDE as long as it's run by an unrepentant murderer who uses the wealth of his nation to support his favorite hobby.  But what are the World Champion candidates to do?  When Avery Brundage, a racist and supporter of Fascism, was head of the International Olympic Committee athletes still competed for and accepted medals from him.

It's too much to ask people to give up their life-long dreams just because the person at the top of the bureaucracy is criminal or at least morally corrupt.  The soldiers of the Wehrmacht were not accused of war crimes, and neither should the soldiers of FIDE.  We need to clean house and had an opportunity to do so.  But the money that keeps pouring in from the citizens of Elista made that all but impossible.

If the entire organization were corrupt (and not just inefficient and poorly organized),  then I could see a boycott being the best option.  As it is, I don't fault either Kramnik or Topalov for having their pictures taken with the President of FIDE.  The World Court has not convicted Ilyumzhinov for any crimes.  What would you do, given the chance to play for the most important title in your sport?
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #69 - 09/16/06 at 09:12:29
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MNb wrote on 09/15/06 at 20:54:08:
TalJechin wrote on 09/15/06 at 16:56:25:
Kramnik's claim is hardly any better than Topalov's - sure he beat Kasparov but never gave him a return match. Besides, Kramnik wasn't even qualified to play Garri (as he lost the semi final to Shirov) - so the very least he could do was offer him a return match.


A funny remark for someone called TalJechin  Wink.


Why? OK, Alekhine should've given Capa a rematch - but given the troubles he had attaining the first match I don't think he owed Capa anything. While Vlad got his WC-match served on a silver plate...

Kasparov has had a big mouth over the years - but I think he should get credit for not ducking a challenge - well, okay he ducked Shirov, but he tried to play the strongest challenger to prove he was the strongest. Kramnik can't say the same...
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #68 - 09/16/06 at 08:56:39
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I am in the lucky position that i like both players. I like Kramnik for his gentlemanness (unlike Kasparov).
On the other hand i like Topalovs fighting spirit. I think both are great sportmans and the winner of this match is a WC i realy can axept. I can not think of a better battle as this one of this tow players.

I think none of this two player should be blaimed for thier behaviour. Honestly I think Kasparov was much worse. Ok he was (is) the strongest player ever but a minimum of more politness would not have been bad.

Kramnik and Topalov are much better in this sens and great player too, if not the two best at the moment.
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #67 - 09/15/06 at 20:54:08
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TalJechin wrote on 09/15/06 at 16:56:25:
Kramnik's claim is hardly any better than Topalov's - sure he beat Kasparov but never gave him a return match. Besides, Kramnik wasn't even qualified to play Garri (as he lost the semi final to Shirov) - so the very least he could do was offer him a return match.


A funny remark for someone called TalJechin  Wink.
Kramnik could have proven to have a really high moral standard by offering Sjirov a second match shortly after 2000. But that's probably asked too much.
I am on IM Cox' side here. I didn't like Kaspy's big mouth in 80's and I don't like Toppy's now. And I certainly don't like Mike Tyson types. But I have to admit: biting an ear certainly creams competition. Which WCh candidate will follow that example?
  

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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #66 - 09/15/06 at 20:37:35
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Buzz wrote on 09/15/06 at 20:17:05:
One potential major issue and perhaps a strategy that maybe used on Toppa's part is the issue of Kramnik's health. Will Kramnik be able to last under the huge strain of a prolonged WC match event? Could this be a repeat of KK 1?


Well...no.  The match ends after 12 games (plus tiebreaks) regardless of the number of wins here.  Kramnik held up fairly well against Leko (the last game was a masterpiece) even though he was ill during the match, and I expect him to be healthy and ready to go this time around.

Hopefully we won't see any novelties like the 8th game Kramnik-Leko.  It will be interesting to see if both players repeat their openings or attempt to represent a moving target, since the match is so short.

*

Only one more week for the match to be cancelled -- it looks like I should have voted for a Kramnik victory instead.
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #65 - 09/15/06 at 20:17:05
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Despite what many may think Toppa's remarks about Kramnik add a little flavour to this match! I think the match will produce some fine games given that both players styles are very different.   

One potential major issue and perhaps a strategy that maybe used on Toppa's part is the issue of Kramnik's health. Will Kramnik be able to last under the huge strain of a prolonged WC match event? Could this be a repeat of KK 1? 

Another major issue which is a dead cert. is how will FIDE mess this whole event up??? Grin
  
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