Poll
Poll closed Question: Prediction?
bars   pie
*** This poll has now closed ***


Topalov wins    
  23 (29.1%)
Kramnik wins    
  37 (46.8%)
Draw    
  2 (2.5%)
Match gets cancelled    
  17 (21.5%)
other?...    
  0 (0.0%)




Total votes: 79
« Created by: OstapBender on: 05/25/06 at 17:35:43 »
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 35 36 [37] 38 39 ... 91
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Kramnik-Topalov match (Read 88876 times)
IMJohnCox
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1551
Location: London
Joined: 01/28/06
Gender: Male
Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #814 - 10/09/06 at 11:00:55
Post Tools
Yes, Svidler is the man to go to, not surprisingly. Though he too, for example, passed by the missed tablebase win in game 2 – the only decent coverage of that I’ve seen is Nunn on Chessbase.

Actually this was exactly typical of Kramnik’s play during his best days – he was famous for his ability to react to innovations (I understand Topalov’s play from moves 9-11 was new) by sensing the right direction to take the play in, and essentially refute his opponent’s preparation at sight. I suppose this type of innovation – more a new plan than concrete tactical computer-backed prep – is still something where this is possible. Although K didn’t manage this in game nine, besides energy issues I think he paid there for his lack of Slav experience. You’d think Dreev would have been on his team if he was going to play these openings so much.

Spassky too has come out (interview on chessbase) and said that he regards Topalov’s behaviour as improper and that he doesn’t see any comparison with Fischer’s, which was directed always at the organiser and never the opponent.

Ubiyca: yes, I think you’re right, good point.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MarinFan
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 447
Location: Leeds
Joined: 04/04/06
Gender: Male
Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #813 - 10/09/06 at 10:41:12
Post Tools
Hello,

The highest quality comments on the match, imo, are coming from Svidler at http://www.chesspro.ru/match/ . (For some reason, they keep moving about URL's for individual games). He has not got round to game 10 yet. Marin's comments are not as good as they could be because having to pump them out quite quickly, although would trust the comments on Catalan because plays the opening himself.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2928
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #812 - 10/09/06 at 10:06:56
Post Tools
Yes, but I think Marin (who I usually trust a lot) may be slightly optimistic for White in this position. In fact even the game continuation as it went looked OK for Black - apparently Kasparov said when following the game live that Topalovs position was already poor before the blunder 24...f6??, but at the time I felt 24...Bxb5 was only a temporary edge for White - I know it is the type of position Kramnik likes, but I put it into Fritz and seems like there are a few ways to completely equalize so I suspect Topalov just over-estimated Whites chances there, though what he was thinking with 24...f6 I dont know  Huh

I´d be interested though if there are even better ways for Black to play earlier, I havent had a chance to analyse it properly yet. Judging by the time taken the interesting thing is that Im pretty sure Kramnik came up with this sequence over the board. Not surprising I suppose as it is a rare line from Black.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Klick
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 528
Joined: 01/31/03
Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #811 - 10/09/06 at 09:57:52
Post Tools
I do not play this myself as Black, but I did notice Marin's comment that Black were mixing ideas when he played BOTH Nh5 and advanced his queenside-pawns.
  

There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2928
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #810 - 10/09/06 at 08:59:51
Post Tools
What is the verdict on Kramniks opening play in the last game - according to Marin it is uncomfortable for Black after cxd5 followed by e4. During the game I found it hard to believe Black could not equalize here (I thought it was a position Kramnik would happily take as Black) but it seems I may have underestimated the dynamic factors in the position - for sure Black is just a couple of moves away from having a nice position, but does he have time? It seems like for once the Topalov team were caught off-guard by this plan.   
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
castlerock
God Member
*****
Offline


Erro Ergo Sum

Posts: 842
Location: Chennai
Joined: 02/24/05
Gender: Male
Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #809 - 10/09/06 at 04:31:34
Post Tools
Anand on the controversy

"It's great entertainment, no doubt. But there is no place for such things in sport. He (Kramnik) was accused not of something he actually did, but something he could have done, and losing a game was extremely unfair to Kramnik. To say that it could have been handled better would actually be putting it mildly. The event is tainted now,"

http://www.hindu.com/2006/10/09/stories/2006100906301800.htm
  

CastleRock
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Nietzsche
Senior Member
****
Offline


Huggy Bear is coming.
You'd better run.

Posts: 394
Location: USA
Joined: 02/13/06
Gender: Male
Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #808 - 10/09/06 at 03:51:23
Post Tools
All right, this is exciting stuff.

Despite the sometimes 'dubious' moves by both players (and all the crazy controversy) this match has been simply fascinating.  I think its clear now that the intense psychological burden of this match has affected both players a great deal, and I think that pressure has now become the deciding factor.   

I believe the last two games will be about surviving mistakes and taking advantage of inaccuracies rather than brillant, flawless games or long/deep planning.  Whoever can impose their will and overcome their 'technical difficulties' will win. I really think the match is more about will-power and emotional stability than OTB strength.
I also think the match will be finished after 12 games and will not require any playoff.  Lets hope the championship isn't decided by a rapid game!
  

"By some ardent enthusiasts Chess has been elevated into a science or an art. It is neither; but its principal characteristic seems to be what human nature mostly delights in - a fight." - Em. Lasker
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ubiyca
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 47
Location: California, USA
Joined: 06/14/04
Gender: Male
Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #807 - 10/09/06 at 00:24:20
Post Tools
IMJohnCox wrote on 10/08/06 at 17:46:05:
Something that slightly puzzles me about the last game: if after f4 ...dxc4 is indicated to prevent c5, as Markovich plausibly suggested, how come Topalov went g3 first?After all this move is more or less wasted after Bxc4. Why not 9 f4, I wonder?


9.g3 is a useful prophylactic move - if White plays 9.f4 immediately, he will have trouble on the h-file due to the pin on the h2-pawn, say after 9...Nh5. Black threatens both ...Qh4+ or ...Ng3 immediately, and even if he isn't able to follow through with those threats, he can liquidate his doubled g-pawns with ...g5.
  

vbhat.wordpress.com
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
IMJohnCox
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1551
Location: London
Joined: 01/28/06
Gender: Male
Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #806 - 10/08/06 at 19:09:18
Post Tools
Two rapids, two blitz, Armageddon, I think.

I believe Kramnik will play, but we'll see.

It's interesting how this match has not really seen a repeated opening, as previous matches have (not Kramnik-Leko, but K-K the Berlin, K-Anand the Schev, K-Short the Bc4 Naj, etc). Of course generally with computers most players have wider repertoires these days.

You'd think though that if chess were dying because of computers as people predict then players would stick more to their openings with Black, since they'd have them so well prepared they couldn't be busted.

Indeed Kramnik at least has paid for playing new openings in the match: if he'd had more Slav experience (I don't think he's played it much at all?) then he'd surely have lost in a little less childlike manner in game 9.

Tuesday's a huge, indeed super-colossal, game now of course. 1 e4 would be a monstrous decision at this stage. I imagine Topalov will stick with 1 d4, and Kramnik? My view is that in such a game you must stick with what you know. That would mean a semi-Slav, maybe, or perhaps an orthodox QGD? I've been surprised he's not gone with that. Of course he has bad memories from the Leko match, amd usually Topa plays Bf4 also.

My prediction would be the same as game 9 from Topalov, and then back to 4...e6 again, then the s-Slav. It's surely safer to go somewhere you've already seen Topalov's number one prep.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Viking
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 673
Location: Norway
Joined: 10/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #805 - 10/08/06 at 18:27:20
Post Tools
Anybody knows what is supposed to happen in case of 6-6 after 12 games?
More "long time" normal games?
Rapid?
Blitz?

Anyway,
In case of an "equal score" after 12 games. Will Kramnik accept to play on?
I would guess that that is not an option for him - as he denies the outcome of game 5!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Scholar
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 557
Location: Chicago
Joined: 04/26/04
Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #804 - 10/08/06 at 17:54:31
Post Tools
IMJohnCox wrote on 10/08/06 at 14:37:21:
Well, I've seldom been more glad to be proved wrong.

Surprising opening choice from Topalov IMHO; the Catalan looked like Kramnik's best bet to me. I was at least a little bit right; he didn't throw caution to the winds but stuck to his style.


Yes, this also strikes me as odd, especially gived Topalov's success in game 8.  It will be very interesting to see what he prepares for game 12.

Quote:

Anyway, if Kramnik's got any sense he'll be in the rest room right now mooning Danailov.


While I don't think that Kramnik's slipped that much yet, he was wearing jeans to the match today...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
IMJohnCox
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1551
Location: London
Joined: 01/28/06
Gender: Male
Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #803 - 10/08/06 at 17:46:05
Post Tools
Something that slightly puzzles me about the last game: if after f4 ...dxc4 is indicated to prevent c5, as Markovich plausibly suggested, how come Topalov went g3 first?After all this move is more or less wasted after Bxc4. Why not 9 f4, I wonder?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
StuntLinguist
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


Pronouncer of strange
and difficult words.

Posts: 42
Location: columbia
Joined: 10/09/05
Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #802 - 10/08/06 at 16:32:55
Post Tools
Wow, another absolutely great game! I know, I know, ...f6?? was a horrific blunder, but it seemed to stem from Kramnik imposing his will on the game. This obviously wasn't Topalov's type of position and his patient defence clearly wasn't up to the challenge. Can anyone imagine Kramnik blundering like that while defending a slightly worse position? Me neither Smiley Such a great game. I only hope Kramnik finds an opening line that gives him the sort of game he wants for game 11.

SL
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
IMJohnCox
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1551
Location: London
Joined: 01/28/06
Gender: Male
Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #801 - 10/08/06 at 15:04:37
Post Tools
It's hard to imagine what Topalov was thinking with 24....f6???, collapsing on the spot in a fairly equal position. This is his third really serious blunder of the match - in fact I would say the worst. In game 1, it's easy to see why he missed the drawing combination; it's hard to adjust from pressing and realise it's the moment to sacrifice a piece and force the draw, and he just wasn't looking for it. And the missed mate in game two is also easy to understand I think - the whole attack has been about the queen going to g6, and it's easy to miss that the c-file has momentarily come open and also that the square e7 which has been so strongly covered throughout the game is now uncovered so that Black can't guard his second rank. But this is extraordinary - White plays the natural moves and you resign, and in more ways than one. Did he just not see that the d-pawn would be en prise? If he got that far he would hardly have played the move.

In the last game the ICC GM kibitzers were all for 15...c5, but Sakaev gave 16 e5 Nd5 17 Bd2 big advantage to White, and in the end Nataf (the lead ICC GM kibitzer) agreed. I haven't really looked.

micawber, lots of GMs including Kasparov and Short were saying it's not so easy, White may have weaknesses on the king side, and so on. But I didn't see any of them suggesting a remotely convincing arrangement of Black's pieces, nor indeed suggesting Topalov's very strong plan. Call me a Fritz-obsessed punter if you will but I was playing about trying to defend for Black against them (with their help of course) and getting nowhere at all.

...Bxc3 is a distress signal for sure but it's not exactly Kramnik-up-to-his-old-tricks-playing-to-exchange-pieces-and-draw, was it, which was what your post rather implied and which I'm getting rather tired of. Maybe a bit oversensitive. 

After that 35...c5 maybe gave more of the sort of fighting chances that make a difference at my level, but I doubt it would have detained Topalov long.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
castlerock
God Member
*****
Offline


Erro Ergo Sum

Posts: 842
Location: Chennai
Joined: 02/24/05
Gender: Male
Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #800 - 10/08/06 at 14:51:13
Post Tools
IMJohnCox wrote on 10/08/06 at 14:37:21:
Well, I've seldom been more glad to be proved wrong.


And I'm seldom been more glad to be proved right. Wink Just logged in and I'm happy.
  

CastleRock
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 35 36 [37] 38 39 ... 91
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo