Poll
Poll closed Question: Prediction?
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*** This poll has now closed ***


Topalov wins    
  23 (29.1%)
Kramnik wins    
  37 (46.8%)
Draw    
  2 (2.5%)
Match gets cancelled    
  17 (21.5%)
other?...    
  0 (0.0%)




Total votes: 79
« Created by: OstapBender on: 05/25/06 at 17:35:43 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Kramnik-Topalov match (Read 88884 times)
castlerock
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #829 - 10/10/06 at 11:40:28
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@Keano. There is no question. Topalov from San Luis onwards is playing exciting chess. I have a theory wrt this. But, about it some other time.

It is also true that it he has had better position in more number of games. But none of this matter, imho.

I simply love Kramnik’s brand of positional play better than Topalov’s flamboyant style. But even this is not the reason why I root for Kramnik. Not even the pathetic behavior of Topalov

I feel sorry for chess professionals. I wouldn’t want my son to be a chess pro. Why? Do you know anything about those big money matches in the past? $2.5 mil prize fund and matches in empire state building? Today we have matches in Kalmikiya for 1 mil less fide tax? Where have they gone? Do you have any idea?

If a 2500 GM has to earn a living, Top 100 should be well off and top ten should be filthy rich. For this we need big money matches. We need World Champions in Steinitz tradition. With Kasparov gone, the responsibility is with Anand, Topalov and Kramnik. Anand is a fence sitter and Topalov is pro Kirsan. Even the remotest hope to revive match tradition and hope will evaporate if Topalov holds the unified title under fide auspices. That’s the reason why I said, "Any other come back would be disastrous to the beleaguered chess world."
  

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MarinFan
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #828 - 10/10/06 at 11:14:12
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Can't believe Kramnik has allowed 6Nh4 line again, though would go for a semi-slav. Should be better prepared this time though...
  
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Keano
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #827 - 10/10/06 at 09:56:47
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castlerock - not offended at all, everyone is entitled to their opinion, although personally your one that "Any other come back would be disastrous to the beleaguered chess world." I would have to entirely disagree with. 
Mind you it all depends what happens in these 2 critical games, but so far Kramnik in my opinion has done nothing to show that he has recovered his form to that required of a World Ch. I resist the temptation to bring up past issues with Kramniks behaviour, since I want to concentrate on the chess but if you check other threads my opinions are well documented regarding what I believe has been Kramniks disgraceful behaviour since the Kasparov match. Anyway lets try and stick to the chess here, if you dont like Topalov fair enough, but you have to admit his chess in San Luis and since has been a breath of fresh air.
  
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castlerock
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #826 - 10/10/06 at 09:00:17
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Keano wrote on 10/10/06 at 08:06:55:
I hope Topalov comes back! 


With another accusation. Or at the minimum, with another interview that boasts a public relations IQ of 70. That would be fun. Wink

Any other come back would be disastrous to the beleaguered chess world.

Another point of interest would be, whether Topalov is going to feel like crying during the game, thinking of his missed chances, as he has done during game 4 (or is it 3) and then went on to open the toilet. 
Lol. Grin

@Keano - It's too good to pass it up. Nothing personal. I'm sorry, if you felt offended. That's not my intention.
  

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Keano
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #825 - 10/10/06 at 08:06:55
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Congrats to Kramnik also, but I hope Topalov comes back! - he has had the initiative throughout the match, although the blunders are very worrying. Anyway it is do or die for both now...

Predictions for today: another Slav? If so will Topalov go for the same move order allowing ...Bf5, will Kramnik repeat this line and play against the two Bishops? Personally I think not, as it is the type of position that Topalov can nurse for a long time...

So, a QGA is possible, or maybe a good old QGD as John has been suggesting!? I think Kramnik shouldnt have too much trouble to draw against the Bf4 line.

We will see  Wink

  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #824 - 10/10/06 at 00:01:14
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Yes, 24...f6 lost.  Yes, at the World Championship level it's a blunder.  But for all these people with their computers running at full speed, I wonder how many would have been able to punish Topalov for his mistake.  Ok, so in this case, most GMs spotted the mistake fairly quickly.  Although I would have played differently than Kramnik did at several points (and thereby given Topalov more chances than Kramnik did), I think I might have been able to win.  But the more likely outcome would have been that I would use up too much of my time, and accepting a draw in a winning position around move 35.

Congrats to Kramnik, and I hope his Lazarus act will carry through so that he wins in regulation!

Cheers.
  
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castlerock
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #823 - 10/09/06 at 17:23:57
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We are making it totally off topic. I tried moving our litle chat under a suitable subject. Too dumb to figure out now.

1) India is a predominently a right wing country. Both the ruling and opposition have right of the centre ideology and often the opposition does not know how to oppose the govt policies. We don't use the abbreviation, though.

2) Yes. Her vernacular intervies have been quite forthright, unlike Anand's

3) Viswanathan is in fact his father's name! Actually the community he (and I) belongs to does not use the family name. A generation before it used to be the native village name, father's name and first name in that order. Nowadays t's just father's name followed by first name. His wife will be called Mrs.Aruna Anand. This is just south indian practice. In rest of the country the nomenclature is like any other place. If you want a western nomenclature, he might be called Anand V. Iyer.

Finally, "differentially abled"did not mean physically challenged. In crude terms Vidhya Sagar is an organisation taking care of spastic children. Still a funny phrase, though.
« Last Edit: 10/10/06 at 02:40:58 by castlerock »  

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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #822 - 10/09/06 at 16:51:33
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"Politically correct". A common right-wing abbreviation here. I didn't mean to get at Anand at all, rather a mild jibe at the (to my reactionary mind) absurd term 'differently abled' to describe, I take it, those people we used to call 'disabled'.

His wife? Really - I always thought she was very retiring.

How does Indian nomenclature work btw? I know Viswanathan is Anand's family name and Anand his given name, so that his brothers (if he was any) are called Viswanathan something rather than something Anand. How does it work with wives?
  
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castlerock
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #821 - 10/09/06 at 16:25:24
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IMJohnCox wrote on 10/09/06 at 11:13:58:
Castlerock – thanks for that link: “the differently abled”, love it. Didn’t realise PC had reached India.


My pleasure. Unfortunately he has always held the view, like Topalov, WC by way of a double round robin is okay. It was the primary reason for rooting for Kramnic. Now the prime reason is Topalov.

I guess, top five prefer Round Robin, Top hundred prefer KO and fans prefer matches. Still hope fans win, aberrations like Topalov not withstanding.

As regards, Anand, he always wanted to be politically correct. His professed ideology has been this. He wanted to change the general impression that a top notch chess player is always a nerd. I thought, he took his ideology to pose as a guy next door, made him unexciting. His wife is a better media personality.

BTW what did you mean by PC?
  

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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #820 - 10/09/06 at 12:45:52
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Quote from this interwview:

*
- So far there have been numerous battles outside the chess board. What will be the main thing from now on? 

- I believe that my manager Silvio Danailov did an extraordinary job and won all the legal battles outside the board quite convincingly, and in the enemy field, too. Now it is my turn to do the same on the chess board.

*

Seems Toplav is broud on that...  Shocked

Before the most chess player were big fans of Topalv (including myself). Whit this "outside the board battles" He lost a lot of symathie. He thinks its about being on his side or on Kramniks side. What he not understand is the poularity of Kramnik hasnt grown, but his dramaticly went down. This is not about beeing on ones side, or have a certain nationality. It just abuot unsportive behaviour. Chess is not football. And besides, even in football the fans dont like if you provoke in nasty ways.
  
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IMJohnCox
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #819 - 10/09/06 at 11:45:52
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http://www.chesscenter.com/twic/event/kratop06/kratoppress8.html

Interview with Topalov released (read, written by, presumably) by Danailov.

Insert usual expressions of shock, outrage, etc. here.

One thing this match is achieving is that I am almost ceasing to regret the passing of the classical match tradition. If we're going to have behaviour like Topalov's and the Appeal's Committee then there's no point bothering, really.
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #818 - 10/09/06 at 11:18:17
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FRom the official site also I found this interesting alternative at move 19 for Black:

It is late for Black to care about even amount of pawns at the board. However, obtaining decent compensation is realistic. For instance, interesting is 19...Nxe5 20.dxe5 d4 21.Be3 (21.Nxb5? Qd5 22.Nxd4 Bb7 23.f3 Bc5) 21...dxe3 22.Rxd8 exf2+ 23.Qxf2 Bxd8, and the bishop pair combined with White’s weakened king give Black good counterchances.

John - I like this idea for Black which is why I am trying to make something work - the game wasnt so bad, but given the forcing nature of Kramniks continuation I suspect Black has better earlier on. Will be interesting to see if this line is repeated much...
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #817 - 10/09/06 at 11:16:34
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Keano, sure, of course it’s still playable, but I think people will tend to stick to the better-established methods round moves 9-11. It’s hard to see what Topalov’s team can have had in mind – as Marin says these moves don’t feel right together, and once you take the decision to play a solid opening why on earth not go on playing solidly?

It’s true of course, a blunder is never just a blunder, and Topalov was playing a position that didn’t suit him, which makes blunders more likely.
  
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IMJohnCox
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #816 - 10/09/06 at 11:13:58
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Castlerock – thanks for that link: “the differently abled”, love it. Didn’t realise PC had reached India.

Good to see the big boys coming out instead of the usual CMA silence, although I don’t like seeing him linking his comments to puffing Mexico City. The only thing I’ve ever had against Anand was his comment that he wished chessfans ‘would get rid of this stupid idea about the world championship dating back to Steinitz and so on’. I like to see a bit more sense of history, and for that matter more respect for the hand that ultimately feeds him, although one can understand his exasperation. I think Anand took against world championship matches when he had to put up with Kasparov’s bad behaviour in New York 95, and I don’t suppose either the 1997 Karpov episode, nor the Kasparov offer withdrawn in 2000, exactly thrilled him either.

Thanks for the info about Anand in India awhile back as well. I remember him saying in 92(?) after his candidates match with Dreev, that he wasn’t sure it had helped him playing in Madras (?again), because the adulation hadn’t helped him get away from it and prepare and focus. But of course it’s different during a match, perhaps, and maybe that match was played in his actual home city.

I found Inarkiev’s view after the first two games interesting; words to the effect of, “Of course the knockout system is better for ordinary grandmasters like me. But watching these games you can see that the world championship should be settled in a match. People talk about blunders, but I can assure you that they are playing fantastic chess.”. I suppose now we have 20,000 punters sitting at home following with Fritz we’re bound to think they’re not playing so well, especially since after every move it’s either ‘oh my God Rybka said Be3 +.47 how can he blunder like this’, or else “Aha Qd1 is Fritz move, yes?”. I don’t suppose the K-K matches would have looked so clever under the same scrutiny either (and let’s face it Kramnik-Kasparov in 2000 was piss-poor, with Gazza losing two games like a child and lucky not to lose at least one more while never getting any kind of blow in himself).
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov match
Reply #815 - 10/09/06 at 11:09:16
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OK, well I answer my own question I think, seems what I was thinking was correct - first this piece of analysis from the guy on the official site:
As both grandmasters pointed out, Black should play 24...Bxb5 25.axb5 Qxb5 26.Qxb5 Rxb5, and White enjoys slight initiative in the ending. It evaporates after a couple of accurate moves: 27.Nd7 Re8 28.Ra8 (on 28.Re1 Black must see 28...g5! 29.Bc1 g4) 28...Rxb2 29.Re1 (29.Bc7 is useless due to 29...Rb7) 29...Rb7 30.Nc5 Rbe7 31.f3 Nd6! 32.Rb1 Bc7 33.Bxd6 Bxd6 34.Rxa5, and the game ends in a logical way.

(I think 27.Ra2 as Marin says is better - but it does not change the evaluation, I dont think Black has any serious problems to draw)

And the Kramnik quote in the press conference confirms:  Yesterday I made a present to Veselin, today the roles have changed. As for objective evaluation of the position, I think Black holds if he plays correctly – it should be a draw.

So seems like this line is still playable for Black!?
  
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