ChessPub Forum - What is the real difference between "=" and "+="?

(UTC)

ChessPub Forum › General › General Chess › What is the real difference between "=" and "+="?

(Moderators: proustiskeen, trw, RoleyPoley)

‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›

Page Index Toggle

Pages: [1] 2

Topic Tools

Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies)

What is the real difference between "=" and "+="? (Read 14987 times)

Smyslov_Fan God Member Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: What is the real difference between "=" and "+ Reply #29 - 07/15/06 at 06:11:57	Post Tools	Print Post
	BTW, William Hartston had something similar to the BCM code you mention in his wonderfully adolescent book, How to Cheat at Chess! I wonder if he wrote the article?


	IP Logged

Smyslov_Fan God Member Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: What is the real difference between "=" and "+ Reply #28 - 07/15/06 at 06:09:23	Post Tools	Print Post
	kylemeister, You got me. I even saw both in concert and can't remember their lyrics. I know I'm old, but now I'm forgetting... What was it I was forgetting?


	IP Logged

kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4989 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: What is the real difference between "=" and "+ Reply #27 - 07/14/06 at 15:52:04	Post Tools	Print Post
	Smyslov_Fan wrote on 07/14/06 at 13:33:59: IMJohnCox wrote on 07/14/06 at 11:23:01: But words are better. *Words???* To quote an old Berlin song, What are words worth, when no one uses them anymore? Or "What are words for, when no one listens any more?" (from a song by the group Missing Persons from about 1982). I recall the BCM(?) years ago publishing a set of new "real world"-oriented Informant symbols. They included a bank note for "bribe," a martini glass to indicate alcohol was involved, etc.


	IP Logged

Smyslov_Fan God Member Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: What is the real difference between "=" and "+ Reply #26 - 07/14/06 at 13:33:59	Post Tools	Print Post
	IMJohnCox wrote on 07/14/06 at 11:23:01: But words are better. *Words???* To quote an old Berlin song, What are words worth, when no one uses them anymore?


	IP Logged

IMJohnCox God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1551 Location: London Joined: 01/28/06 Gender:	Re: What is the real difference between "=" and "+ Reply #25 - 07/14/06 at 11:23:01	Post Tools	Print Post
	Well fair enough, perhaps nonsense was a bit strong. Would you accept 'a valiant but doomed attempt to capture a shifting, complex and multi-faceted reality within a five-unit linear scale', then? They have their uses, of course. But words are better.


	IP Logged

OstapBender God Member Offline There is no spoon. Posts: 1491 Location: not in Kansas anymore Joined: 10/16/04	Re: What is the real difference between "=" and "+ Reply #24 - 07/13/06 at 19:08:54	Post Tools	Print Post
	kylemeister wrote on 07/13/06 at 18:57:39: IMJohnCox wrote on 07/13/06 at 13:09:36: I like Luke McShane's formula: +/- means White will win if he plays well, +/= means Black will draw if he plays well, and +- means the game is over. But of course these symbols are all nonsense, as has been said. I find it an odd claim that the symbols "are all nonsense." I take it then that you would prefer the Informant, NIC Yearbook etc. to drop them forthwith. So their meanings are not totally precise (I don't know how they ever could be), and they don't convey all evaluatory considerations about a position. But it's a big leap from that to saying that they are nonsense. The main attribute of informator symbols is that they save space while still conveying some kind of assessment. A secondary attribute is that they are languageless. Now to state the obvious: I doubt that anyone would disagree that wWhen these attributes are important to a publication, the symbols serve a vital purpose. And I think we all agree that wWhen space/language barrier are not major issues, then informator symbols (especially += and =+) leave a lot to be desired. I just like 'em because I can use Smyslov_Fan's trick to make a +. Coolo!

	"If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates." -Jay Leno
	IP Logged

kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4989 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: What is the real difference between "=" and "+ Reply #23 - 07/13/06 at 18:57:39	Post Tools	Print Post
	IMJohnCox wrote on 07/13/06 at 13:09:36: I like Luke McShane's formula: +/- means White will win if he plays well, +/= means Black will draw if he plays well, and +- means the game is over. But of course these symbols are all nonsense, as has been said. I find it an odd claim that the symbols "are all nonsense." I take it then that you would prefer the Informant, NIC Yearbook etc. to drop them forthwith. So their meanings are not totally precise (I don't know how they ever could be), and they don't convey all evaluatory considerations about a position. But it's a big leap from that to saying that they are nonsense.


	IP Logged

IMJohnCox God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1551 Location: London Joined: 01/28/06 Gender:	Re: What is the real difference between "=" and "+ Reply #22 - 07/13/06 at 13:09:36	Post Tools	Print Post
	I like Luke McShane's formula: +/- means White will win if he plays well, +/= means Black will draw if he plays well, and +- means the game is over. But of course these symbols are all nonsense, as has been said.


	IP Logged

OstapBender God Member Offline There is no spoon. Posts: 1491 Location: not in Kansas anymore Joined: 10/16/04	Re: What is the real difference between "=" and "+ Reply #21 - 07/12/06 at 23:32:14	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: OstapBender wrote on 06/27/06 at 16:12:12: There are different interpretations, but very roughly (someone feel free to correct me if this is a bit off although I don't think there is universal agreement anyway) the symbols translate to: += or =+ 0.25-1.0 pawn advantage (i.e., equivalent value) +/- or -/+ 1.0-2.0 pawn advantage. +- or -+ >2.0 pawn advantage. I've also seen the symbols correlated with winning percentage but don't recall details. I never found += or =+ very useful in 'understanding' a position without an accompanying verbal explanation/assessment. May I ask you, what is the source of all these evaluations, I mean symbols' translations ? No source, just a too quick answer with numbers that are quite a bit off the mark. See: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1151423768/#5

	"If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates." -Jay Leno
	IP Logged

M. Pytel YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 37 Joined: 06/24/06	Re: What is the real difference between "=" and "+ Reply #20 - 07/12/06 at 23:07:08	Post Tools	Print Post
	OstapBender wrote on 06/27/06 at 16:12:12: There are different interpretations, but very roughly (someone feel free to correct me if this is a bit off although I don't think there is universal agreement anyway) the symbols translate to: += or =+ 0.25-1.0 pawn advantage (i.e., equivalent value) +/- or -/+ 1.0-2.0 pawn advantage. +- or -+ >2.0 pawn advantage. I've also seen the symbols correlated with winning percentage but don't recall details. I never found += or =+ very useful in 'understanding' a position without an accompanying verbal explanation/assessment. May I ask you, what is the source of all these evaluations, I mean symbols' translations ?


	IP Logged

Sugartort YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 31 Joined: 03/27/06	Re: What is the real difference between "=" and "+ Reply #19 - 07/02/06 at 21:27:59	Post Tools	Print Post
	Hmm, my keyboard produces question marks instead of laid eights.


	IP Logged

Sugartort YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 31 Joined: 03/27/06	Re: What is the real difference between "=" and "+ Reply #18 - 07/02/06 at 21:23:31	Post Tools	Print Post
	Yes it's a matter of taste : += means "I prefer White". +over- means "anything other than a White win would amaze me". +- means "if White doesn't win... kill me". ? means "It would take me ? minutes to understand what's going on" or "the proof is left to the reader as an exercise". (The latter phrase is preferred in math books because the use of the symbol ? would there lead to some confusion.)


	IP Logged

Smyslov_Fan God Member Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: What is the real difference between "=" and "+ Reply #17 - 06/29/06 at 04:23:46	Post Tools	Print Post
	kevinludwig wrote on 06/28/06 at 21:09:09: I was wondering how that was done. Now show me how to do this one: -/+ Umm, "Black has a clear advantage"?


	IP Logged

kevinludwig Full Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 233 Location: Los Angeles Joined: 06/13/04	Re: What is the real difference between "=" and "+ Reply #16 - 06/28/06 at 21:09:09	Post Tools	Print Post
	I was wondering how that was done. Now show me how to do this one: -/+


	IP Logged

Smyslov_Fan God Member Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: What is the real difference between "=" and "+ Reply #15 - 06/28/06 at 20:20:25	Post Tools	Print Post
	FYI: There's an easy way to write the clear advantage sign here without any special symbols. Just type "+" but underline it. The text will look like [ u]+[/u] to you when you type it, but will show up as: "+".


	IP Logged

Page Index Toggle

Pages: [1] 2

Topic Tools

‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›

Bookmarks:

del.icio.us

Digg

Google

Google+

reddit

StumbleUpon

Yahoo

« Board Index ‹ Board Top

Top

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2026. All Rights Reserved.

Valid XHTML

Valid CSS

Powered by Perl

Source Forge