Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 22
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) OstapBender-Scholar, Yugoslav 9.0-0-0 d5 (Read 188608 times)
OstapBender
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no spoon.

Posts: 1491
Location: not in Kansas anymore
Joined: 10/16/04
Re: OstapBender-Scholar, Yugoslav 9.0-0-0 d5
Reply #297 - 10/15/06 at 21:00:28
Post Tools
It was a difficult choice between 33.Qa5 and 33.Rxd4, but I ultimately settled on the latter.  The exchange sac seems inevitable in any variation (the d4-knight just has to go) and doing it right away may have fewer drawbacks than postponing it.  I'm not entirely sure about grabbing the a7-pawn straightaway, but it seems to be the right course based on lines I've examined.  If White's salvation lies anywhere it will be in the advance of the queenside pawns.

So my move is 33.Rxd4

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 0-0 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.0-0-0 d5 10.exd5 Nxd5 11.Nxc6 bxc6 12.Bd4 Bxd4 13.Qxd4 Qb6 14.Na4 Qa5 15. b3 Qc7 16.h4 h5 17.c4 Nf4 18.Qe3 Rb8 19.Rg1 Ne6 20.Bd3 Rd8 21.Be4 Bd7 22.Bc2 c5 23.Nc3 Qg3 24.Nd5 Nd4 25.Qxe7 Bc6 26.Qe1 Qd6 27.Ne7+ Kg7 28.Nxc6 Qxc6 29.Kb1 Re8 30.Qc3 Qf6 31.Rd2 Qxh4 32.Rgd1 Qg3 33.Rxd4

current position

and I offer the conditional sequence 33...cxd4 34.Qxd4+ Kg8 35.Qxa7 leading to


after 35.Qxa7
  

"If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates."  -Jay Leno
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Scholar
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 557
Location: Chicago
Joined: 04/26/04
Re: OstapBender-Scholar, Yugoslav 9.0-0-0 d5
Reply #296 - 10/14/06 at 22:44:41
Post Tools
OstapBender wrote on 10/13/06 at 00:50:29:
You called my bluff!  Smiley


Yes, well, don't work too hard on that line.  I won't be playing 34...Qxf4, that's for sure.  Of course, judging by your recent posts, perhaps I should start looking more critically at moves other than 33.Qa5.

*

I was replaying the game just now to see how things fit together and could not help but notice that the bizarre trajectory of the Black queen has continued since the opening: Qb6-a5-c7-g3-d6xc6-f6xh4-g3 and with the queen expected to continue to bounce along the b8-h2 diagonal for a while more...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
OstapBender
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no spoon.

Posts: 1491
Location: not in Kansas anymore
Joined: 10/16/04
Re: OstapBender-Scholar, Yugoslav 9.0-0-0 d5
Reply #295 - 10/13/06 at 00:50:29
Post Tools
You called my bluff!  Smiley
  

"If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates."  -Jay Leno
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Scholar
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 557
Location: Chicago
Joined: 04/26/04
Re: OstapBender-Scholar, Yugoslav 9.0-0-0 d5
Reply #294 - 10/13/06 at 00:18:34
Post Tools
OstapBender wrote on 10/12/06 at 14:12:13:
Scholar wrote on 10/12/06 at 13:06:02:
Well, the idea is to sacrifice the rook when the pawn gets to c7 and then try to win with the three connected passed pawns on the kingside.  Since posting, my opinion has shifted and it now looks like this is a touch slow -- Black has enough for a draw, but no win in my analysis.  And in these sorts of positions, that usually indicates that White has pretty good winning chances.

Sounds good!  What are the moves leading to this position?  Grin


1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. f3 Bg7 7. Be3 O-O 8. Qd2
Nc6 9. O-O-O d5 10. exd5 Nxd5 11. Nxc6 bxc6 12. Bd4 Bxd4 13. Qxd4 Qb6 14. Na4
Qa5 15. b3 Qc7 16. h4 h5 17. c4 Nf4 18. Qe3 Rb8 19. Rg1 Ne6 20. Bd3 Rd8 21. Be4
Bd7 22. Bc2 c5 23. Nc3 Qg3 24. Nd5 Nd4 25. Qxe7 Bc6 26. Qe1 Qd6 27. Ne7+ Kg7
28. Nxc6 Qxc6 29. Kb1 Re8 30. Qc3 Qf6 31. Rd2 Qxh4 32. Rgd1 Qg3 33. Qa5 Qe5 34.
f4 Qxf4 35. Qxc5 Ne2 36. Rd3 Rbd8 37. Qa5 Rxd3 38. Bxd3 Qf6 39. Kc2 Qf2 40. Qg5
Nf4+ 41. Rd2 Qe3 42. g3 Nxd3 43. Qxe3 Nb4+ 44. Kc3 Rxe3+ 45. Kxb4 Rxg3 46. c5

Good luck!
Let's just say that Black's play isn't entirely forced... Grin
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
OstapBender
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no spoon.

Posts: 1491
Location: not in Kansas anymore
Joined: 10/16/04
Re: OstapBender-Scholar, Yugoslav 9.0-0-0 d5
Reply #293 - 10/12/06 at 14:12:13
Post Tools
Scholar wrote on 10/12/06 at 13:06:02:
Well, the idea is to sacrifice the rook when the pawn gets to c7 and then try to win with the three connected passed pawns on the kingside.  Since posting, my opinion has shifted and it now looks like this is a touch slow -- Black has enough for a draw, but no win in my analysis.  And in these sorts of positions, that usually indicates that White has pretty good winning chances.

Sounds good!  What are the moves leading to this position?  Grin
  

"If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates."  -Jay Leno
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Scholar
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 557
Location: Chicago
Joined: 04/26/04
Re: OstapBender-Scholar, Yugoslav 9.0-0-0 d5
Reply #292 - 10/12/06 at 13:06:02
Post Tools
Willempie wrote on 10/12/06 at 10:07:47:
Scholar wrote on 10/10/06 at 06:22:57:
Here's a much more interesting endgame study than the one I gave before.  I have always been fascinated by this type of position (rooks and pawns on opposite wings).


Black to move


Probably a draw, but I'll have to see if Black can squeeze out a win with those kingside pawns.  Bonus points if you can reach this position from the game.

fen=8/p4pk1/6p1/2P4p/1K6/1P4r1/P2R4/8 if you want to analyze this yourself.

I am not sure about this. I think white may be able to win this one as it is hard to stop the c-pawn. Ie with white to move pushing the c-pawn seems winning.


Well, the idea is to sacrifice the rook when the pawn gets to c7 and then try to win with the three connected passed pawns on the kingside.  Since posting, my opinion has shifted and it now looks like this is a touch slow -- Black has enough for a draw, but no win in my analysis.  And in these sorts of positions, that usually indicates that White has pretty good winning chances.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Willempie
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 4312
Location: Holland
Joined: 01/07/05
Re: OstapBender-Scholar, Yugoslav 9.0-0-0 d5
Reply #291 - 10/12/06 at 10:07:47
Post Tools
Scholar wrote on 10/10/06 at 06:22:57:
Here's a much more interesting endgame study than the one I gave before.  I have always been fascinated by this type of position (rooks and pawns on opposite wings).


Black to move


Probably a draw, but I'll have to see if Black can squeeze out a win with those kingside pawns.  Bonus points if you can reach this position from the game.

fen=8/p4pk1/6p1/2P4p/1K6/1P4r1/P2R4/8 if you want to analyze this yourself.

I am not sure about this. I think white may be able to win this one as it is hard to stop the c-pawn. Ie with white to move pushing the c-pawn seems winning.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Scholar
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 557
Location: Chicago
Joined: 04/26/04
Re: OstapBender-Scholar, Yugoslav 9.0-0-0 d5
Reply #290 - 10/11/06 at 02:46:50
Post Tools
OstapBender wrote on 10/10/06 at 19:16:06:
Right now I'm analyzing a line which could lead to endgames with similar features (i.e., opposite wing passed pawns).  The line is 33.Rxd4 cxd4 34.Qxd4+ Kg8 35.Qxa7

[...]

At first glance, I didn't think much of White's prospects.  I didn't like punting the kingside pawns, in particular giving Black the passer on the h-file.   As I dig deeper, however, I think this may be a valid alternative to 33.Qa5.  In any event, it's double-edged and a fun line to analyze.

So far no other candidate moves.


Yes, this is the main alternative.  My impression is that Black retains good winning chances, since he can push the h-pawn more easily than White can push any of his (and it is a certainty that I would try to grab on g2 and do just that).  It's hard to be sure, though; these sort of slow-motion pawn races make for difficult assessments, and often all three results look plausible before the key line is found.

The only other candidates I considered were moves to protect the queen (in order to make Be4 possible), but these seemed less promising.

I view Qa5 as both most likely and best, and so most of my analysis has been of that move.  To be honest, I have not even managed to prepare my reply to that yet, so I probably won't look further at Rxd4 unless it appears.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
OstapBender
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no spoon.

Posts: 1491
Location: not in Kansas anymore
Joined: 10/16/04
Re: OstapBender-Scholar, Yugoslav 9.0-0-0 d5
Reply #289 - 10/10/06 at 19:16:06
Post Tools
Thank's Scholar.  That's an interesting endgame — which I don't have time to analyze at the moment (maybe after my next move).  Right now I'm analyzing a line which could lead to endgames with similar features (i.e., opposite wing passed pawns).  The line is 33.Rxd4 cxd4 34.Qxd4+ Kg8 35.Qxa7 leading to:


Black to move


At first glance, I didn't think much of White's prospects.  I didn't like punting the kingside pawns, in particular giving Black the passer on the h-file.   As I dig deeper, however, I think this may be a valid alternative to 33.Qa5.  In any event, it's double-edged and a fun line to analyze.

So far no other candidate moves.
  

"If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates."  -Jay Leno
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Scholar
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 557
Location: Chicago
Joined: 04/26/04
Re: OstapBender-Scholar, Yugoslav 9.0-0-0 d5
Reply #288 - 10/10/06 at 06:22:57
Post Tools
Here's a much more interesting endgame study than the one I gave before.  I have always been fascinated by this type of position (rooks and pawns on opposite wings).


Black to move


Probably a draw, but I'll have to see if Black can squeeze out a win with those kingside pawns.  Bonus points if you can reach this position from the game.

fen=8/p4pk1/6p1/2P4p/1K6/1P4r1/P2R4/8 if you want to analyze this yourself.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
OstapBender
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no spoon.

Posts: 1491
Location: not in Kansas anymore
Joined: 10/16/04
Re: OstapBender-Scholar, Yugoslav 9.0-0-0 d5
Reply #287 - 10/09/06 at 03:44:06
Post Tools
Scholar wrote on 10/09/06 at 02:55:15:
Well, 33.Qa5 looks pretty solid, but I imagine that 33.Be4?? will be crossed off the list pretty quickly (Rxe4).

That f3-pawn is pinned, isn't it?  Yep. Crossed off already!  Grin
  

"If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates."  -Jay Leno
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Scholar
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 557
Location: Chicago
Joined: 04/26/04
Re: OstapBender-Scholar, Yugoslav 9.0-0-0 d5
Reply #286 - 10/09/06 at 02:55:15
Post Tools
OstapBender wrote on 10/09/06 at 01:36:43:
32...Qg3 is an interesting choice which, although a little bit of a surprise (not a big surprise since, of course, you did mention it a couple of days ago) it looks to be no worse than 32...Qf6 (which I expected you to choose).  Whether it's substantially better is not apparent to me just yet.

Although I haven't yet analyzed 32...Qg3 (I, rather lazily, waited to see if you would play it before investing the time), a candidate move which comes to mind right away is 33.Qa5 and I'm sure other possibilities will occur to me as I take a closer look (certain moves, like 33.Be4 will almost certainly be on the list).

It may take a few days to sort everything out, but I'll get to work on analyzing right away.


Well, 33.Qa5 looks pretty solid, but I imagine that 33.Be4?? will be crossed off the list pretty quickly (Rxe4).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
OstapBender
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no spoon.

Posts: 1491
Location: not in Kansas anymore
Joined: 10/16/04
Re: OstapBender-Scholar, Yugoslav 9.0-0-0 d5
Reply #285 - 10/09/06 at 01:36:43
Post Tools
32...Qg3 is an interesting choice which, although a little bit of a surprise (not a big surprise since, of course, you did mention it a couple of days ago) it looks to be no worse than 32...Qf6 (which I expected you to choose).  Whether it's substantially better is not apparent to me just yet.

Although I haven't yet analyzed 32...Qg3 (I, rather lazily, waited to see if you would play it before investing the time), a candidate move which comes to mind right away is 33.Qa5 and I'm sure other possibilities will occur to me as I take a closer look (certain moves, like 33.Be4 will almost certainly be on the list).

It may take a few days to sort everything out, but I'll get to work on analyzing right away.
  

"If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates."  -Jay Leno
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Scholar
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 557
Location: Chicago
Joined: 04/26/04
Re: OstapBender-Scholar, Yugoslav 9.0-0-0 d5
Reply #284 - 10/09/06 at 00:32:59
Post Tools
My move is 32...Qg3.

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 0-0 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.0-0-0 d5 10.exd5 Nxd5 11.Nxc6 bxc6 12.Bd4 Bxd4 13.Qxd4 Qb6 14.Na4 Qa5 15. b3 Qc7 16.h4 h5 17.c4 Nf4 18.Qe3 Rb8 19.Rg1 Ne6 20.Bd3 Rd8 21.Be4 Bd7 22.Bc2 c5 23.Nc3 Qg3 24.Nd5 Nd4 25.Qxe7 Bc6 26.Qe1 Qd6 27.Ne7+ Kg7 28.Nxc6 Qxc6 29.Kb1 Re8 30.Qc3 Qf6 31.Rd2 Qxh4 32.Rgd1 Qg3


White seems destined to play Rxd4, but perhaps his position can be improved before he commits to doing so.  32...Qf6 was the main alternative, but the selected move puts a little more pressure on White.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Scholar
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 557
Location: Chicago
Joined: 04/26/04
Re: OstapBender-Scholar, Yugoslav 9.0-0-0 d5
Reply #283 - 10/07/06 at 07:14:09
Post Tools
OstapBender wrote on 10/06/06 at 05:04:45:
Scholar wrote on 10/06/06 at 04:19:22:
Recently I've been working on 32.Be4 f5 33.Bd5 leading to somewhat different play, and where I was having some trouble making things work.  Often I would get what I thought was a winning advantage, and but it would turn out that I was actually just maneuvering myself into a drawn endgame, maybe up a clear pawn, or the exchange, but still drawn.  (It is enough to make one hate the 6-man tablebases...)

I wasn't entirely confident regarding White's drawing chances after 32.Be4 f5 33.Bd5 and decided I didn't want to invite this possibility.  Sounds like I might not have looked at this position carefully enough.


Maybe.  I still believe that there is a win there for Black, even if I can't find it.

As far as the present move, it will be either Qf6 or Qg3; I'll decide this weekend.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 22
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo