Scholar wrote on 07/15/06 at 07:17:07:
So what has changed in the past few days? Well, I now think that White has some interesting choices at move 17 besides g4.
17.c4 which I think was dangerous last turn, now looks a little out of place, since it exposes White's king but doesn't really add anything to White attack. For this reason I haven't looked at it so carefully, other than to note that Black can plan on re-routing his knight via f4 and e6 (with tempo) to a suitable home on d4 (supported by a pawn on c5).
I have the same concerns about exposing the white king, but White’s initiative in the
17.c4 lines seems stronger. I think White risks more but stands to gain more. A sample line (albeit not deep at all) is
17...Nf4 [
17...e5 18.Qc5 Nf4 19.Rd6 +/=]
18.Qe3 [
18.Rg1 is another option]
18...Rb8 19.Rg1 and g4 follows soon (maybe preceded by g3 to push the knight back. Another idea is
20.g3 Ne6 21.Bh3. I’ve analyzed a rather dense web of variations, and it’s difficult to draw definitive conclusions, but White seems to have a sustained initiative with decent prospects of converting it to a more concrete advantage. It's difficult to be more specific at this point when there are so many branches in the analysis - some details will have to wait until we have moved a bit down a particular line should 17.c4 be my selected move (which is starting to look likely!).
Quote:17.Bc4 is complicated, but I think OK for Black. I have a hard time keeping track of the variations in this line, but I think that 17...Nb6 holds things together. If not, Black has many other choices, but this is the move that I believe is the best competitor to 17.g4.
This move was my first impulse when I was looking for an improvement over
17.Rd2. I think it is an improvement, but as you indicate
17...Nb6 seems to hold things together quite well.
Quote:And what of 17.g4? In addition to the line quoted above (which still reigns as my 'verified' main line), Black has some more ambitious choices -- 17...Qg3 18.gxh5 Qxf3 19.hxg6 Qxh1 sees White reply in kind by sacrificing a rook for some excellent attacking chances, and the uncertainty resulting makes life difficult for both sides. An endgame where White has two pawns for the exchange seems likely to result. After 17...hxg4 18.fxg4 Black can also try e5 with unclear complications.
So White has a chance to play for complications now, and Black will have his opportunity to decide whether or not to enter the 'melee' I alluded to in my previous post on the two subsequent moves. I'd be interested in reading what others think of these ideas -- should Black go for the draw (after 17.g4 hxg4 18.fxg4 Qg3 19.h5 Qe3+ 20.Kb1 Qxd4 I can hardly pretend that Black is trying to win), or play one of the more ambitious lines above, and if so, which is most promising?
Your
17…Qg3 line is very interesting, and something I hadn’t considered. At first glance, I thought it looked risky but after (
18.gxh5 Qxf3 19.hxg6 Qxh1)
20.Bb5 Qf3 21.Bxc6 Be6 22.gxf7+ Qxf7 23.Bxd5 Bxd5 24.Qxd5 Qxd5 25.Rxd5 Rf2 Black might actually be fine. There are possible alternatives to look at which may lead to improvements, but I think this looks like a solid line.
Ah,
17.g4 may well turn out to be the move I wish I had played. I think it is much safer than
17.c4 while still being a reasonable try for an advantage.
Quote:When I was looking back to check for the mention of Golubev's comments (thanks for that link, Ostap!) I saw those early remarks questioning the point of Qb6-a5-c7. Few of the above lines feature Nc5 (and then usually not until an endgame has been reached), and a couple see Black's queen target the weakened dark squares on the queenside and the offsides knight. So I am happy to see that my hopes for this line were not so absurd after all.
I absolutely agree.
15…Qc7 is a very interesting alternative to
13…Qc7. I think it is still premature to conclude that it is better (or worse). It leads to complex game with some very interesting choices - and White's offside knight (a main point of the idea) seems to fall into the plus column for Black.
Quote:Of course, White still has the initiative, and it remains to be seen whether Black can prevent him from making something of it...
Actually, I guess this is the reason I am now leaning toward 17.c4. I will spend a couple of hours seriously attempting to find a fatal flaw with this move. I will post my next move a bit later tonight.
Once again, really enjoying the game and discussion. And I think the real fun is just about to begin!
Cheers,
Ostap
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OstapBender-Scholar, Yugoslav 9.0-0-0 d5 (Read 190406 times)
